A rebutal to mike031's comments on aeiou.com

[rentdn]

Can you give me an example of one of your sites that dropped?

We've gone through the Google TOS many times. We aren't violating any of their rules. Our goal is enough content to be "legal" but not so much no one clicks a link.
.

Actually I can

I had 2 domains and ordered mini-sites for them not from your company ( but well establish company and I'm sure you've heard about it , but i do not want to mention which as I do not want to harm anyone's business , and in one month both domain were banned in google for that reason I'm trying to avoid using minisites anymore. I believe recent changes in G's algorithm detecting minisites and sometimes moving them to BAN . Though I'm not sure 100% I'm just sharing with my experience.

[Rick Latona]

Actually I can

I had 2 domains and ordered mini-sites for them not from your company ( but well establish company and I'm sure you've heard about it , but i do not want to mention which as I do not want to harm anyone's business , and in one month both domain were banned in google for that reason I'm trying to avoid using minisites anymore. I believe recent changes in G's algorithm detecting minisites and sometimes moving them to BAN . Though I'm not sure 100% I just sharing my experience.

That's the whole thing. We are more of an SEO company than a development company. The priority is on SEO anyway. That's where the money is made on mini-sites. Please don't compare our methods to their results.

[Seraphim]

Seraphim, if I may chime in here.

I very quick look-up on the juicy domain you posted, revealed links from carrotjuice (.) com among others. I believe that is yours as well, correct?

From an SEO standpoint, crosslinking your sites is always dangerous. You have people everywhere thinking A-B-C trades is the way to go, but trust me, it's not. If it's low profile, you may very well get away with it, but if you crosslink your sites systematically (or even A-B-C's with partners), Google will eventually catch on. They have algorithms for detecting link patterns.

Couple a light-weight site, from a content standpoint, with the fact that your other sites link it, may be what caused you to drop. Bear in mind, I have not done a full site analysis so I can't say for sure, but that would be my guess.

I'm 100% certain that crosslinking wasn't a factor in this case, though I agree it can get you banned in some cases. Until recently I used to assign a single Google Webmaster Tools account to small lots of minisites, in this case a quality control employee came into my GWT account from another non related non crosslinked website (of equal content size), and simply banned every single domain in the account, including a fully developed cooperate real estate domain that I had sold, but forgot to remove from GWT. In the back drop to this incident, other minisites have been falling out of the index recently as well. What does it mean exactly... I don't know for sure yet, perhaps "write more content". I've since removed even fully developed domains from GWT, spidering speed seems about the same without it, so why bother with the risk factor.

Anyway, don't want to hijack Rick's thread with my Google issues.

[Rick Latona]

I'm 100% certain that crosslinking wasn't a factor in this case, though I agree it can get you banned in some cases. Until recently I used to assign a single Google Webmaster Tools account to small lots of minisites, in this case a quality control employee came into my GWT account from another non related non crosslinked website (of equal content size), and simply banned every single domain in the account, including a fully developed cooperate real estate domain that I had sold, but forgot to remove from GWT. In the back drop to this incident, other smaller sites have been falling out of the index recently as well. What does it mean exactly... I don't know for sure yet, perhaps "write more content". I've since removed even fully developed domains from GWT, spidering speed seems about the same without it, so why bother with the risk factor.

Anyway, don't want to hijack Rick's thread with

No worries. The conversation is relevant

[Nomzo]

the time intensive expensive link building.

Can you offer some examples?

[Tia Wood]

Tia, is this really a "monetization option" for all domainers and a means to just move domains away from parking? AEIOU basically just sells minisites right? Think about it, the initial investment when parking your domain at whichever parking company is ZERO. When purchasing a minisite (ballpark $225) for the purpose of monetizing it you better be damn well sure it's going to make AT LEAST your initial investment back + you will surely expect a nice flow of income from the minisite you have time and money invested in? Sure the parking companies stick it to you when the clicks come in but at least when you park a domain and receive clicks you are earning positive revenue already without being $225 in the hole before your first click.

It's an option. Which doesn't mean its for every domain, but it's an option. Whether its a good option or not for a particular domain should be evaluated by the domainer. $225 upfront would be next to nothing for the right domain that would otherwise make a lower payout from parking or sit idle.

And it all depends on what you're trying to do with the domain. You wouldn't take your brick and mortar business domain and park it because it was the cheaper option. So yes, it is a "monetization option".

[rentdn]

That's the whole thing. We are more of an SEO company than a development company. The priority is on SEO anyway. That's where the money is made on mini-sites. Please don't compare our methods to their results.

Do not get me wrong I'm not trying to compare your service with others especially considering the fact that I've never used your service yet. I'm just stating facts which happened to me. Maybe your approach is much better then others , but I just felt strange that both domains went to BAN , also I must say one was PR3 and other PR5 with tons of backlinks related to content . What i want to say that G is very clever and getting clever each day , and I think that the era of minisites will going to end very soon

[nicedomains]

One thing that I would like to point out that many people overlook is the value add a developed domain with more than just type-in traffic has come time for resale. No longer are you just selling a name, you are selling a complete product...

I agree with you %100 here. My only point is that strictly for monetization purposes moving entire portfolios into aeiou dev doesn't seem like a feasible monetization option unless you have a portfolio with loads of traffic that's not already converting well.

It's an option. Which doesn't mean its for every domain, but it's an option. Whether its a good option or not for a particular domain should be evaluated by the domainer. $225 upfront would be next to nothing for the right domain that would otherwise make a lower payout from parking or sit idle.

And it all depends on what you're trying to do with the domain. You wouldn't take your brick and mortar business domain and park it because it was the cheaper option. So yes, it is a "monetization option".

Gotcha

[Rick Latona]

Do not get me wrong I'm not trying to compare your service with others especially considering the fact that I've never used your service yet. I'm just stating facts which happened to me. Maybe your approach is much better then others , but I just felt strange that both domains went to BAN , also I must say one was PR3 and other PR5 with tons of backlinks related to content . What i want to say that G is very clever and getting clever each day , and I think that the era of minisites will going to end very soon

Mini just means small. The format may change but small websites aren't going anywhere.

[midgetlov]

To quickly touch on a point that Mike mentioned in the previous thread...
As someone who has had major experience with outsourcing web design/development to people in India and Russia, I can tell you that the amount you may save setting something up doesn't justify the efforts needed to find someone credible.

Honestly, I hadn't even thought about using AEIOU until I read your post Mike...$250 is a STEAL! I guess the saying that "Any press is good press" kinda rings true here.

Think about it...what is your time worth? If it takes you approximately 4 hours to develop a site that is similar to what AEIOU delivers, that's time you could've spent elsewhere.

As far as the SEO goes...anyone that expects to receive ANY meaningful results, from ANY service that performs a one-time "optimization" of their site, need to do themselves a favor and become more knowledgeable of how things actually work.

Based on what I've learned so far, it sounds like Rick's service gives people a great foundation to work from at a very reasonable price...but in order for it to have the effects you would like...additional effort on your part is required.

That is to be expected for any real business to succeed.

Do you really believe that you can get a complete/turn-key/profitable online business developed for you for only $250 and never have to do anything again to help it grow???

Cheers!

-Midgetlov

[rentdn]

Mini just means small. The format may change but small websites aren't going anywhere.

Small websites yes , but not websites with same design , same structure and html code

[katherine]

I'm happy for services such as AEIOU.com, WhyPark, etc. These companies are helping domainers move away from parking companies.

I'm not found of minisites. If you still depend on adsense for your revenue it's pretty much the same as parking to me. The only difference is that you can do SEO work but you're still vulnerable.
If you're really ambitious, develop your names into fully-fledged businesses and run your own advertising network. But you cannot do that on a mass scale.

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*hehe*

[domainscot]

OK I have been reading this with intrest.
Since i own over 2000 what you folk call mini sites.
I have been building this for over 4 years and all can say mike if your unhappy with a product you speak to company direct and sort your problem out.

1.buying a mini site just for the sake of it will not solve your problems, you have to ask yourself what do you want your mini site to do.

2. what functions can be added to my site with out the hazzle of a proggrammer. can i add my own google code. can i add my own affalite links, can i add my own scripts and turn my site into a proper site.

3 will your site be ranked with google. will i have the time to manage my site and thats is the biggest question you need to ask.

4. its not about getting your mini sites and sit and do nothing you have to put the effort into adding more to your site and tweeking your sites to get the best from them.

5. im not going to promote my minisites on this tread as i dont sell to anyone but development takes a long time to get right and a lot of cost and ricks sites do the basic functions for the basic price now will show a sample of 2 or 3 of my own basic sites as samples
http://www.anderston.co.uk/ local area in glasgow and does well for its google ranking.
http://www.hotelsglasgow.co.uk/ local hotel site does very well with google and affalite
http://www.castlescotland.com/ my scottish castle mini site
http://www.jedburgh.com/ town in scotland
http://www.avoncarhire.co.uk/ sample of work being done on car hire sites
http://www.scottishwalking.com/ still adding content

content is king along with right metatags keywords and development is in its early days for mass domaining and rick desrvers a pat on the back for developing a system out of his own pocket to enhance earnings for domainers.

if anyone wants my views on minisites and wants to ask me questions can at msn tommy@glasgow.com

ps I will beat any parking company when comes to traffic with mini site

also i forgot to mention
mini sites bring you direct advertisers when you have a network up and running you get business from people wanting to advertise on your sites.
and thats where the real money is.
advertisers want to spend money on the web, domainers are sitting with the domains but dont know how to build its like the chicken and the egg story.

[Ryan Steel]

Small websites yes , but not websites with same design , same structure and html code

While I agree with the idea that a footprint is a definite way to flag sites down, I use one example that really defies all.

The default Wordpress layout is probably the most widely used template on the internet. For explanation purposes, lets assume that we did every single mini site using this same template. Do you still feel that the risk is as high? To ban one would be to ban all and I cannot see that happening.

It all falls back on the fact that, while they may be small, we are producing real websites, with unique content and marketing them. I am a true believer that as long as you don't give Google anything to complain about - they won't!

I'm not found of minisites. If you still depend on adsense for your revenue it's pretty much the same as parking to me. The only difference is that you can do SEO work but you're still vulnerable.
If you're really ambitious, develop your names into fully-fledged businesses and run your own advertising network. But you cannot do that on a mass scale.


*hehe*

This thread has definitely taken on a life of its own and we love it. We don't like to argue - we like to make progress!

The great thing about development is that you really can take control of the revenue streams. Adsense is a great backbone, however depending on your vertical there are some really enticing CPA and CPL offers out there that can be run in place of adsense and generate much higher EPC. We work with a ton of different affiliate networks out there and when applicable, recommend different offers to our clients that have a bright upside.

[domainscot]

ryan i spent 2 years buiding diffrent over 800 diffrent designs and i have found no diffrence in the backend or probelm with ranking in google.

as long as you play with the rules you are fine
if you type into google as a sample glasgow pubs we have 3 websites on the front page.
number 3 www.glasgowpubs.co.uk/
number 5 www.glasgowpubs.com/
number 10 www.glasgowpub.com/ -

now i can show you more where sometime we have 6 and 7 of the listings for the search on google and thats what its all about

[rentdn]

WP Blogger is different case , as these platform are recognized by google and G trust them , as they are used by millions and only small percentage of them trying to build " self parking" solution on them , and even in this case I believe that they will not be ranked good in G , as google paying attention how ofter blog is being updated .

What about minisites for me minisite = MFA ( famous Made For Adsense )

in 2004 MFA website was bringing load of cash but now they are all dead. Yes we are getting smarter and instead of using MFA we start to use minisites.

Can anybody explain me what is the difference between MFA and Minisite ( just do not say unique content plzzz )

[Seraphim]

It's too bad we can't get Matt Cutts to chime in on this issue just once, I would love to ask the following question: "I own a large portfolio of domains, will mass production of small scale keyword focused niche websites make me vulnerable to getting banned (we're talking solid content however small)?". My opinion today is yes, a repeated pattern of mass small website production does open you up to increased risk. In my experience that seems to be the best way to raise the Google scrutiny level to it's highest, and unfortunately once it's there it seems applicable to 100% of your development projects, regardless of size.

The Google TOS in my opinion is just a rough outline of their overall policy. Much is left to their mood, or discretion on any particular day. Also depends on which quality control specialist visits your website, etc. Their policy isn't consistent on this issue, and so I really wish someone from Google could finally clarify it for us all.

[domainscot]

i dont call them minisites to be honest what im building in my own advertising network to bring me my own advertisers.

I allready have customers paying between £60 a month for a banner advert to £1200 a month for banner and page adverts.

its a advertising network. when you have groups of names build you yuo then have a revenue strem that people will pay to advertise on. you can have google addwords affalite leads, and local advertisers.

this site http://www.glasgowtaxi.com/ last week even in development gave one of my customers a £275 taxi job and this site http://www.glasgowbushire.co.uk/ with nothing on it gave a customer of ours a £4500 bus hire for 55 people for 2 days.

This is what happens when you buy developed systems to suit your own needs and i would imagine thats what rick system does it brings you in customers.

[kamil]

Lets take one of my minisites as an example

Xioi dot com

Before : $3-$5 from sedo parking
After development : a few cents from google adsense

Yeah, it has some backlinks too, apart from type in traffic.

So, I would like to ask minisite experts that whats wrong in this case, as I have unique contents on site and everything hand coded for better results

Domain name doesn't relate to the contents, but I avoided that in order to not mess with microsoft

Cheers

[Ryan Steel]

WP Blogger is different case , as these platform are recognized by google and G trust them , as they are used by millions and only small percentage of them trying to build " self parking" solution on them , and even in this case I believe that they will not be ranked good in G , as google paying attention how ofter blog is being updated .

What about minisites for me minisite = MFA ( famous Made For Adsense )

in 2004 MFA website was bringing load of cash but now they are all dead. Yes we are getting smarter and instead of using MFA we start to use minisites.

Can anybody explain me what is the difference between MFA and Minisite ( just do not say unique content plzzz )

Sure they may be in the good graces of G, however the case lays - as long as you behave, you won't get picked on.

I think many will agree that Minisites = MFA sites. I have no experience with traditional MFA's however I remember them being mass produced pages of scrapped content with really hardcore blatant ad placement. We are in the business of making money - and aggressive ad placement is a must to keep CTR high, however it can be done in a more unobtrusive way. To me, any site that is built to make money could fall into the MFA category - it is a shame that it has a tarnished name, the game is the same though just on a cleaner level.