A rebutal to mike031's comments on aeiou.com

[Rick Latona]

Hey Mike,

You state that mini site development "doesn't work, doesn't have a chance" and yet you yourself are trying to sell mini sites. We have been developing our own inventory for years now and have had great success with it. Since we had the process down - we brought it public to offer our services to other domainers. We are our biggest clients and KNOW that the process works. Allow me to talk about your points.

At aeiou.com we never promise the world. In fact we turn down more than half of the domain submissions due to the fact we feel that they would not make great candidates. If we were so prone to sales, why would we do this? I believe in providing a quality service to our clients and that is exactly what we do.

As far as pricing goes - we have no plans on changing. Yes there are plenty of competitors out there that offer services at a fraction of our price - but that does not mean the product or service is the same. The other majors don’t do the time intensive expensive link building.

You can ask any of our clients - we tell them straight up - our websites are not meant to be works of art. They are meant to be effective at gaining additional search engine traffic and monetizing it. All content is written in house by our team of writers and if you find anything that is 100% ripped it is due to it being a fact. We do not use recycled content - and will never. Upon completion of each of our developments, our clients receive a full link building report detailing each link building effort we performed. You stand on your soapbox, but obviously you have not worked with us to know this process. We have quality control systems in place and check our writers for their honesty daily.

Our 1 year ROI goal, is just that - a goal. We screen each domain to make sure they fit the bill and do our best to protect our clients investments. It does not take domains with type in traffic to meet this goal. In fact some of our best performers have been names with ZERO type in traffic.

Our goal is to target the main keyword in the domain name. Nothing more, nothing less. Our optimization shows this as you pointed out.

In the case of unemployed.com, it was banned when it came to us. We have been working on getting this reindexed in the search engines - until then, yes you will not see any results in google. However it is gaining exposure in yahoo. It went from nowhere to high on the second page of Yahoo. As the links get older, it should continue to climb.

We operate with complete transparency. If you want to know traffic you simply have to ask.

If you truly read our case study on marketcritic.com - you would learn that the focus of that post was actually how we were able to take a domain that had previous backlinks and saved them by developing. You are absolutely right - #1 for market critic is not a critical move - but we are there and the site is flourishing. Had we parked the domain, the backlinks would have died off and all efforts would be lost.

The internet is a big place. We buy and sell names. Some of the names had previous developments on them sure. Looking over the case studies though, it looks like 80% or so of them had no previous development, or if they did - there was a long period of parking in between our developments.

As for repossessions.com, we made a typo - shame on us and it will be fixed. It’s only been live for 3 months, not 6. I do however appreciate you pointing out that our service does work though.

Daytraders.com was sold - Jay has yet to take possession.

To this day, we have yet to have a customer have any troubles with adsense. We have alot of them out there. We play by the rules and do not even think twice about this. I do not know a single domain we have developed that has been penalized. Once again you are making unfounded claims. As far as a foot print, yes we have a link to aeiou.com on our hosted mini sites. This will not change. As part of our service we offer free hosting for our clients in return for a simple link back to our site. As long as the sites are not in contempt, this will never be a problem. If you do not agree, then do you think that Wordpress is a bad guy as well even if their default theme is one of the most widely used designs on the internet? Sure one wipe can knock us out - but we do not give Google a reason to wipe us.

Mike, we operate a business that is growing daily. It is hard to do this by burning bridges. We offer a product, for a price and stand behind it. I do not believe in going out and slamming other businesses to try to make ours look better. In fact, aeiou.com works with our competitors. We could go back and forth for days - and I am sure you will still feel the same way, however I felt your post was truly uncalled for and there needed to be a little light shed on this.

Let's not get into a battle, you said your piece, we said ours. As far as I am concerned you can go about your business and we will do the same.

Regards,

Rick Latona
http://www.ricklatona.com

[GUA]

My take on this:

Websites get better SEO rankings based on how good the site is. Google is actually pretty clever. At the end of the day a static website with 5 pages of content that never changes will never do well.. (assuming $0.05 a day is not 'well').

Yes there are various steps you can take which will help you rank better, but these steps are my all definitions steps to make bad websites more popular as there is no other way of doing it,

Back and forth between carious parties about quality of minisites is pointless, as in the grand scheme of things all minisites suck.

If you have a good domain, do it justice, and develop it. Develop it properly, and update it constantly. If you have thousands of good domains, hire people to develop them well and keep them updated.

No offence, I do truly respect you Rick, and your efforts but AEIOU and similar services simply flood the internet with bad websites.

[Rick Latona]

Originally Posted by GUA

My take on this:

Websites get better SEO rankings based on how good the site is. Google is actually pretty clever. At the end of the day a static website with 5 pages of content that never changes will never do well.. (assuming $0.05 a day is not 'well').

Yes there are various steps you can take which will help you rank better, but these steps are my all definitions steps to make bad websites more popular as there is no other way of doing it,

Back and forth between carious parties about quality of minisites is pointless, as in the grand scheme of things all minisites suck.

If you have a good domain, do it justice, and develop it. Develop it properly, and update it constantly. If you have thousands of good domains, hire people to develop them well and keep them updated.

No offence, I do truly respect you Rick, and your efforts but AEIOU and similar services simply flood the internet with bad websites.

Many times we build out mini-sites as soon as we get the names. When the name has reached high positions in the serps we look at the traffic and revenue and then decide how best to do a bigger development.

Also, our metrics don't support your theory. We rarely lose positions. Honestly, link building is 99% of the game in SEM. Updating, quality, etc make up 1%. Links are everything.

Lastly, if you put too much content on the sites, people won't click a link to leave. The aeiou formula is for domainers. It's an alternative to parking which increases the traffic but is as easy to maintain as a parked name! We are always willing to install WordPress for those customers that want to update their content regularly.

[trader]

Development certainly works for me too Rick. Over time the development (including lots of minisites) have built-up traffic steadily and to really good levels. A number of the small developed sites show monthly bar-charts with approx 45 degree up-angles to the traffic increases over many months or years, much of it due to development and SEO (combined with natural traffic).

[Seraphim]

Rick, I have / had about 800 or so minisites floating around in Google, and they do extremely well. However beginning in January 2009, I started to notice quite a number of my minisites dropping from Google's index, and obviously that means decent domains are getting banned. I don't know if this is a new policy change with Google, or my own personal bad luck, but once AEIOU.com has "enough" back links, you may want to consider not linking back to your company with your templates (really consider risk vs. reward on that). You seem to be changing your templates around frequently, obviously good move there.

When Google does decide to strike, they take the gloves off, so for anyone doing minisite development, switch your code around, keep your templates varied, keep shaking things up, or you could wake one painful morning to find a chunk of decent domains banished to the dark dreary halls of Yahoo and MSN Live.

2 cents from a minisite guy...

[Carter]

Well said Rick!!
You do right reply him here on DNF.
I've just received your today newsletter

[meganerd]

Originally Posted by Rick Latona

It's an alternative to parking which increases the traffic but is as easy to maintain as a parked name!

We need all the alternatives to parking we can get.

[trader]

Originally Posted by meganerd

We need all the alternatives to parking we can get.

Right, but good increases in traffic are unfortunately more than offset by constantly declining income from monetization programs such as YPN and Adsense, which are down big time overall, starting a couple years ago for many of us.

[Rick Latona]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Rick, I have / had about 800 or so minisites floating around in Google, and they do extremely well. However beginning in January 2009, I started to notice quite a number of my minisites dropping from Google's index, and obviously that means decent domains are getting banned. I don't know if this is a new policy change with Google, or my own personal bad luck, but once AEIOU.com has "enough" back links, you may want to consider not linking back to your company with your templates (really consider risk vs. reward on that). You seem to be changing your templates around frequently, obviously good move there.

When Google does decide to strike, they take the gloves off, so for anyone doing minisite development, switch your code around, keep your templates varied, keep shaking things up, or you could wake one painful morning to find a chunk of decent domains banished to the dark dreary halls of Yahoo and MSN Live.

2 cents from a minisite guy...

Can you give me an example of one of your sites that dropped?

We've gone through the Google TOS many times. We aren't violating any of their rules. Our goal is enough content to be "legal" but not so much no one clicks a link.

Originally Posted by trader

Right, but good increases in traffic are unfortunately more than offset by constantly declining income from monetization programs such as YPN and Adsense, which are down big time overall, starting a couple years ago for many of us.

Many of our customers ask us to ad CPA offers which we will do.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Rick Latona

Can you give me an example of one of your sites that dropped?

We've gone through the Google TOS many times. We aren't violating any of their rules. Our goal is enough content to be "legal" but not so much no one clicks a link.

PineappleJuice (.) com

[pontifixx]

In the long haul, a fully developed site will win out. look at it from Google's perspective - are they going to rank a 5 page site about a topic, or a 500 page site about the same topic? Google stays number 1 by giving people the information they want. I know there are some 5 page sites that are good, but most times, a site dedicated beyond doubt will rise to the top.

[Rick Latona]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

PineappleJuice (.) com

That's not one of our sites, so other readers know. I think you are a little too light on content. The bigger thing is that I can't find any backlinks. Mini-sites without link building are worthless, IMHO.

Originally Posted by pontifixx

In the long haul, a fully developed site will win out. look at it from Google's perspective - are they going to rank a 5 page site about a topic, or a 500 page site about the same topic? Google stays number 1 by giving people the information they want. I know there are some 5 page sites that are good, but most times, a site dedicated beyond doubt will rise to the top.

You won't here me argue against full development. That's why we suggest to throw up mini-sites to see which ones are worth bigger development. Or have it done so you increase in ranking while you are working on something that seems to take forever.

[trader]

Originally Posted by Rick Latona

.......Our goal is enough content to be "legal" but not so much no one clicks a link......

That sure is valid and is a very fine line. It is really interesting how the better most any site becomes with content and size the more the CTR and income goes down, the exact opposite of the goal of Google to have better sites with improved user experience.

[meganerd]

I'm happy for services such as AEIOU.com, WhyPark, etc. These companies are helping domainers move away from parking companies. Although not perfect and has its place, which every company does in the beginning stages, I say bring it on! Cut out the middlemen and find better alternatives to domain parking. These companies should be applauded for giving us another monetization option.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Rick Latona

That's not one of our sites, so other readers know. I think you are a little too light on content. The bigger thing is that I can't find any backlinks. Mini-sites without link building are worthless, IMHO.

It has tons of backlinks, 1,937 according to Yahoo (perhaps too many), + 8 pages of original content, in fact it was ranked #1 for "pineapple juice" in Google for 3 years before it got banned. I was surprised it got yanked, but like I said perhaps it was bad luck on my part, and not a policy change (hopefully).

Anyway, best of luck with your service.

[nicedomains]

Originally Posted by meganerd

I'm happy for services such as AEIOU.com, WhyPark, etc. These companies are helping domainers move away from parking companies. Although not perfect and has its place, which every company does in the beginning stages, I say bring it on! Cut out the middlemen and find better alternatives to domain parking. These companies should be applauded for giving us another monetization option.

Tia, is this really a "monetization option" for all domainers and a means to just move domains away from parking? AEIOU basically just sells minisites right? Think about it, the initial investment when parking your domain at whichever parking company is ZERO. When purchasing a minisite (ballpark $225) for the purpose of monetizing it you better be damn well sure it's going to make AT LEAST your initial investment back + you will surely expect a nice flow of income from the minisite you have time and money invested in? Sure the parking companies stick it to you when the clicks come in but at least when you park a domain and receive clicks you are earning positive revenue already without being $225 in the hole before your first click.

[Keyboard Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

It has tons of backlinks, 1,937 according to Yahoo (perhaps too many), + 8 pages of original content, in fact it was ranked #1 for "pineapple juice" in Google for 3 years before it got banned. I was surprised it got yanked, but like I said perhaps it was bad luck on my part, and not a policy change (hopefully).

Anyway, best of luck with your service.

Seraphim, if I may chime in here.

I very quick look-up on the juicy domain you posted, revealed links from carrotjuice (.) com among others. I believe that is yours as well, correct?

From an SEO standpoint, crosslinking your sites is always dangerous. You have people everywhere thinking A-B-C trades is the way to go, but trust me, it's not. If it's low profile, you may very well get away with it, but if you crosslink your sites systematically (or even A-B-C's with partners), Google will eventually catch on. They have algorithms for detecting link patterns.

Couple a light-weight site, from a content standpoint, with the fact that your other sites link it, may be what caused you to drop. Bear in mind, I have not done a full site analysis so I can't say for sure, but that would be my guess.

[Ryan Steel]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

It has tons of backlinks, 1,937 according to Yahoo (perhaps too many), + 8 pages of original content, in fact it was ranked #1 for "pineapple juice" in Google for 3 years before it got banned. I was surprised it got yanked, but like I said perhaps it was bad luck on my part, and not a policy change (hopefully).

Anyway, best of luck with your service.

Hey Seraphim - thank you for the kind words. As much as one can understand Google, sometimes very unexpected things like your banning still happen. Have you had any luck with reinclusion?

Also - this goes to all mini site developers/owners out there: If you are interested in setting up link trade partnerships with us we are more than game. Shoot me an email at ryan@aeiou.com and we will see where we can work together.

Originally Posted by Keyboard Cowboy

Seraphim, if I may chime in here.

I very quick look-up on the juicy domain you posted, revealed links from carrotjuice (.) com among others. I believe that is yours as well, correct?

From an SEO standpoint, crosslinking your sites is always dangerous. You have people everywhere thinking A-B-C trades is the way to go, but trust me, it's not. If it's low profile, you may very well get away with it, but if you crosslink your sites systematically (or even A-B-C's with partners), Google will eventually catch on. They have algorithms for detecting link patterns.

Couple a light-weight site, from a content standpoint, with the fact that your other sites link it, may be what caused you to drop. Bear in mind, I have not done a full site analysis so I can't say for sure, but that would be my guess.

Good point. I follow one rule and one rule only when interlinking. If I link site A to site B, does it benefit the surfer. The lines can be drawn loosely, but as long as you are providing targeted links that show benefit to the surfer over the benefit to the site owner - you will be safe.

[tonyfloyd]

Originally Posted by nicedomains

Tia, is this really a "monetization option" for all domainers and a means to just move domains away from parking? AEIOU basically just sells minisites right? Think about it, the initial investment when parking your domain at whichever parking company is ZERO. When purchasing a minisite (ballpark $225) for the purpose of monetizing it you better be damn well sure it's going to make AT LEAST your initial investment back + you will surely expect a nice flow of income from the minisite you have time and money invested in? Sure the parking companies stick it to you when the clicks come in but at least when you park a domain and receive clicks you are earning positive revenue already without being $225 in the hole before your first click.

I agree....and $225 x 1000's (which most domainers have..as far as domains that they want/should develop) = A FORTUNE......so..it's a catch 22...unless you learn development yourself..and do it yourself.....or u got 6 figures to throw towards development.....

[Ryan Steel]

Originally Posted by nicedomains

Tia, is this really a "monetization option" for all domainers and a means to just move domains away from parking? AEIOU basically just sells minisites right? Think about it, the initial investment when parking your domain at whichever parking company is ZERO. When purchasing a minisite (ballpark $225) for the purpose of monetizing it you better be damn well sure it's going to make AT LEAST your initial investment back + you will surely expect a nice flow of income from the minisite you have time and money invested in? Sure the parking companies stick it to you when the clicks come in but at least when you park a domain and receive clicks you are earning positive revenue already without being $225 in the hole before your first click.

Development absolutely does cost money, everything has its down side.

One thing that I would like to point out that many people overlook is the value add a developed domain with more than just type-in traffic has come time for resale. No longer are you just selling a name, you are selling a complete product - even if it is a just a mini site. We have sold many domains because they were ranked and had a steady traffic stream other than the type-in traffic for more than we would have sold them had they just been parked.

On a side note, aeiou.com does more than just our Rapid Mini Sites. We offer a full range of development and marketing services - our Rapid Mini Sites are just our cornerstone product.