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Other states keep reading, you will want to hear this too. Connecticut Affiliates need to take action now, tonight, in the morning. As many of you that possible can before 2pm Thursday 3/25. Today 6 of us CT affiliates joined a lobbyist and the PMA to shake hands and talk with legislators as they debate SB 5481 or as they like to call it the Amazon Tax Bill. The 6 of us felt like we made some legislators rethink this bill. The session was delayed until tomorrow and possibly will keep getting delayed so don't stop now, get involved.
In a state with over 2,800 affilates why are we just 6? You must and can still get involved. Just because you don't work with Amazon doesn't mean it won't impact you. The bill reads as...
"...whether by a link on an Internet web site or otherwise...retailer shall be presumed to be soliciting business through such independent contractor..."
That's your Advertiser and you the Publisher.
One senator told us that other states will do it too, so don't worry. I say if that takes 5 years for all states to do, we're all Fired, Terminated, Broke, lose our Jobs well before then. But I don't want to confuse messaging. The lesson today was to speak up and call your state rep, leave a voicemail, email them a letter. You can do this now.
PMA Connecticut Advertising Tax.
http://www.performancemarketingassociation.com
http://groups.google.com/group/pma-c...dget-committee
Send one email to your representative and senator.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/CGAFindLeg.asp
Read the bill.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/TOB/H/201...481-R00-HB.htm
The 6 affiliates that stepped up to the plate FOR YOU ALL today.
Scott Jangro
Kevin Mardorf
John Napoletano
Tom Caporaso
Vincent Villano
Jenifer
You are all marketers. Tell every CT affiliate you know to step up and voice their opposition to SB 5481 now. Other states learn from this and get involved. We are high tech JOBS. Don't let local retailer book store jobs be saved as they think it will, it wont, while you stand by and lose your high tech job.
Last edited by JohnNapoletano; 03-24-2010 at 07:42 PM.
It is foolish to live or operate a business in a high tax place like CT, RI, NY, OR, CA, MI, etc..
My suggestion is to incorporate in Nevada and rent a virtual office there too. Live in any red state of your choosing. It should be easy to find a red state, there are only a few left, such as ID, AK, NE, WY, UT, etc..
I am not sure it is that easy, unless amazon allows po boxes.Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks
NC has passed this as well. Virginia voted it down. I am about one hour from VA border and if I can have a po box I will do it.
otherwise, I will look into my LLC's status as an entity of Delaware, home of Missy O'Donnell
"Just a lot of embarrassment, embarrassed to be part of group of domainers who would do this to their fellow man.",
Condemnation of Mobee boys and investors by our precious Mother Theresa of Domaindom
Huh?
I went to high school in CT and lived in RI for many years. No More.
I guaranteed it is that easy because that is how I run my business. I lease an office in Las Vegas from a corporate management company for $1600 a year. It is a physical address. They act as my corporate agent, hang my business license, forward the mail, answer the phone, etc.. My business is physically located there, whatever that means.
I live anywhere I want
Nevada is the new Delaware, the new best place to incorporate. It has the strongest corporate protections, and low taxes, and no red tape.
If you run a business out of your home you can incur liability by possibly breaking your local zoning laws. You are also forced to file a foreign corporation entity declaration in your state. You may also have high taxes. You may also have fewer protections with your corporate veil. Why bother with all of that and risk it?
If you are interested in getting a similar arrangement, I will introduce you. Email me: DaddyHalbucks //AT// GMAIL
Last edited by DaddyHalbucks; 11-03-2010 at 11:43 PM.
removed post...answered my question while I was typing.
Thanks, good stuff!
John
Last edited by JohnNapoletano; 11-04-2010 at 12:19 AM.
Not sure you fully understand the situation here.
Amazon dot com dumped all the NC affiliates because the State of NC wanted Amazon to collect, withhold, and pay to the State of NC state tax from Amazon Affiliate earnings.
Many times when signing up for such programs, affiliates will stipulate no PO Boxes - especially with one of the payment methods being by check.
Even though I am a registered Delaware LLC, my residence is in NC. And, even though I was being paid by PayPal, because of my NC resident status I was dropped by Amazon as Amazon refused to treat the NC state affiliates as contrators (which NC was requiring)
So it is not a matter of where I have my LLC or what I used as a payment method. It was a matter of having to use my home address vs. PO Box or LLC state declaration.
Plus, as a business operating with a business license, I have to get a state of NC business license to operate here.
Now, if Amazon has changed its sign up policy, then I can get around that by using a PO Box in another state.
Connecticut and few others have been hit by these new proposed state tax withholding which Amazon has dropped those states rather than do the bookkeeping for those states.
"Just a lot of embarrassment, embarrassed to be part of group of domainers who would do this to their fellow man.",
Condemnation of Mobee boys and investors by our precious Mother Theresa of Domaindom
I am aware of Amazon's policy. Years ago, I lived in both RI and CT.
If you use a PO Box in another state to circumvent their taxes, you may be committing a fraud.
Delaware USED to be the best state for incorporating, now it is Nevada. If Delaware is your corporate domicile, but you do business in your home state, you still have to pay taxes and file foreign entity declarations in your home state.
This is the point I am making: if you have a purely online business, why not incorporate in the best state for corporations, and also do business there? It is easy to setup, and it streamlines everything. Lease an "office" for cheap, and get your mail forwarded. Rent cheap office services.
It is very easy to setup. PM me if you need help.
PLEASE, understand. I am NOT circumventing taxes. Never have, never will.
That is the issue. I claim and file my taxes every year INCLUDING affiliate income. From those tax filings of course, I pay State and Federal taxes.
There never was an issue of me trying to circumvent paying anything. It is me simply looking for a way to get back into being an Amazon affiliate.
"Just a lot of embarrassment, embarrassed to be part of group of domainers who would do this to their fellow man.",
Condemnation of Mobee boys and investors by our precious Mother Theresa of Domaindom
I didn't mean to accuse you of anything improper.
I understand you want to be an Amazon affiliate. Again, there is a larger issue. These states where they are trying to tax Amazon earnings, these are lousy states. They have high taxes and they are corrupt, certainly RI and CT fall into that category. Dick Blumenthal was rated the worst attorney general in the country, and he just got a promotion. RI is legendary for its high taxes, corruption, and bribery. If they will tax Amazon earnings aggressively, don't you think they will be aggressive in other ways? Look at the "business friendly" rankings for these states, I bet they are low. If you have an online business and you can locate it anywhere, why be limited by where you live, why not locate it in the best possible place? Why not get a physical address for your online business, a physical address in a friendly place?
If you run a business from your house, there is also an issue of zoning. It is probably less of an issue for some, but it can be a problem if you tick off the wrong person in local government. This can be a VERY thorny issue for people in the adult business, especially if you have an enemy in local government.
Again, why not make all your problems disappear by locating your business strategically in the best place?
We are cool.
We're also cool on the zoning issues. Not a problem.
It is going to boil down to what is legal and what is not. IF I put an address that is contrary to Amazon's TOS, then the whole matter is a dead issue and I am banned.
As for "virtual office" and "virtual address", I have already looked into that. Again, same guidelines apply - is it in violation of Amazon's TOS?
The reason I would love to get on board again with Amazon, as an affiliate it far exceeded success rates and clicks and payout than CJ or Linkshare.
I am exploring all the possibilities and alternatives. This includes Googles Affiliate program. I have been approved for this as well as carrying Amazon alternatives such as Barnes And Noble (BN dot com) and Alibris (alibris dot com) which is fine for books. However, Amazon is very robust with fantastic (and successful) widgets, ratings, and product streams far beyond books, music, videos etc.
I truly understand what you are saying and promoting, but the first thing I have to ascertain is the limitations and policies of Amazon's Associate's TOS.
"Just a lot of embarrassment, embarrassed to be part of group of domainers who would do this to their fellow man.",
Condemnation of Mobee boys and investors by our precious Mother Theresa of Domaindom
"Address that is contrary to Amazon's policy?"
Huh? You would be using your business address, a real physical address.
"I truly understand what you are saying and promoting, but the first thing I have to ascertain is the limitations and policies of Amazon's Associate's TOS."
Again, huh?
How would your business, duly incorporated, complete with physical address, business license, and even a lease --violate anything?
If everything was as easy and as cut and dry as you say it was, then Amazon would not be fighting this ruling but would go along with your assertion that anybody could register anywhere at anytime and be within their TOS. Amazon has chosen to fight this with the most recent state of Colorado implementing the same taxation strategy.
I would rather be right and correct on all sides of this issue rather than jump in and get into another mess. I have a Federal Tax ID, a corporation (LLC) registered in Delaware, and a permanent home address that is in NC. Nearly all affiliates must file a W-9. Ultimately, there will be a Misc. 1099 sent to the affiliate as well as the IRS. That 1099 is also recorded into State tax departments as well. I already pay a annual Franchise tax in Delaware and pay State and Federal Taxes as a resident of NC. What you are suggesting is adding a burden of a third state and federal taxation
Obviously, you are not understanding my taking issue with Amazon's TOS and tax laws while trying your best to promote your own services. I can easily get a physical address, office suite, phone service, mail forwarding, and everything you are trying to promote in nearly any state and district. Some for as low as $9.95 a month. This includes Virginia (where the state legislature has struck down the effort to tax VA residents as "subcontrators", etc.).
Thanks, but I would rather get legal advice from an attorney.
"Just a lot of embarrassment, embarrassed to be part of group of domainers who would do this to their fellow man.",
Condemnation of Mobee boys and investors by our precious Mother Theresa of Domaindom
I would dump Delaware. Incorporating in Delaware is very 1970. Nevada has better corporate protections than Delaware. The corporate veil has only been pierced a few times in Nevada, both for outright fraud. If you are running an honest business, you are safe. Try that in the blue states.
$9.95 a month? You probably get what you pay for. Are their employees trained to handle inquiries from creditors? Do they act as you local agent? Do they hang your business license? Do they provide a local telephone number and phone bill if necessary? Do they have a conference room for your use? Do they remind you about filing important state documents? Do they handle everything for you, turnkey?
Disclosure: I don't offer any corporate planning services. I am a customer. I have been a customer for a few years. Although, they tell me that if I refer friends they will give me a small referral fee. So far, I haven't made any money from them.
I doubt your attorney will give you better advice about incorporating in Nevada than experts who do it full time, but that's your call.
Honestly, "experts who do it full time" are totally clueless on the complexities of each state's statutes, laws, and proceedings of every state let alone what the Terms of Service of each entity involve.
I have an "agent" in Delaware, that handles all proceeding and filings for the state of Delaware incorporations. Everything you mention as being essential is there. It is not so much where as it is who you go with.
As for the address issues, there are countless virtual offices (office fronts with a legitimate physical address) offering services from $9.95 per month. This is a basic rate for maintaining an office address with physical street address as in Fairfax, Virginia or even Houston Texas. Basic services are the copying and forwarding of mail (if I chose) up to 100 pieces per month via scanned image.
Seriously, look at your siggy! Do you think I am going to dish out $1600 bucks to you or any other entity only to have someone like amazon say, Oops, sorry. You do not have a permanent residence there.
You are pumping one service of countless same type services found on the internet as being "the experts" who provide no real service or advice or liability or legal advice...it is a matter of paying money. Their disclaimers read like TOS on a credit card contract - numerous pages long releasing that entity from all wrong doing or bad advice.
You're asking me to take your word over an attorney or a tax expert or someone who can define what constitutes Amazon TOS.
Yeah, the experts do it all the time.
Those experts that offer wrong advice and break the law...do they get to share a jail cell with me?
---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------
Associates Program Operating Agreement
Updated: 1 November 2010. (Current Associates: See what's changed)
This Associates Program Operating Agreement (“Operating Agreement”) contains the terms and conditions that govern your participation in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program (the “Program”). “We,” “us,” or “our” means Amazon Services LLC or any of its affiliate companies (excluding those that sell retail products), as the case may be. “You” or “your” means the applicant. A “site” means a website. “Amazon Site” means either the amazon.com site or the endless.com site, as applicable. “Your site” means any site(s) and any software application(s) that you link to the Amazon Site.
BY CHECKING THE BOX INDICATING THAT YOU AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS OPERATING AGREEMENT, OR BY CONTINUING TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM FOLLOWING OUR POSTING OF A CHANGE NOTICE, REVISED OPERATING AGREEMENT, OR REVISED OPERATIONAL DOCUMENTATION ON THE AMAZON.COM SITE, YOU (A) AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THIS OPERATING AGREEMENT; (B) ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE INDEPENDENTLY EVALUATED THE DESIRABILITY OF PARTICIPATING IN THE PROGRAM AND ARE NOT RELYING ON ANY REPRESENTATION, GUARANTEE, OR STATEMENT OTHER THAN AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS OPERATING AGREEMENT; AND (C) HEREBY REPRESENT AND WARRANT THAT YOU ARE LAWFULLY ABLE TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS (E.G., YOU ARE NOT A MINOR) AND THAT YOU ARE AND WILL REMAIN IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS OPERATING AGREEMENT, INCLUDING THE ASSOCIATES PROGRAM PARTICIPATION REQUIREMENTS. IN ADDITION, IF THIS OPERATING AGREEMENT IS BEING AGREED TO BY A COMPANY OR OTHER LEGAL ENTITY, THEN THE PERSON AGREEING TO THIS OPERATING AGREEMENT ON BEHALF OF THAT COMPANY OR ENTITY HEREBY REPRESENTS AND WARRANTS THAT HE OR SHE IS AUTHORIZED AND LAWFULLY ABLE TO BIND THAT COMPANY OR ENTITY TO THIS OPERATING AGREEMENT.
2. Enrollment
To begin the enrollment process, you must submit a complete and accurate Program application. You must identify your site in your application. We will evaluate your application and notify you of its acceptance or rejection. We may reject your application if we determine that your site is unsuitable. Unsuitable sites include those that:
(a) promote or contain sexually explicit materials;
(b) promote violence or contain violent materials;
(c) promote or contain libelous or defamatory materials;
(d) promote discrimination, or employ discriminatory practices, based on race, sex, religion, nationality, disability, sexual orientation, or age;
(e) promote or undertake illegal activities;
(f) include any trademark of Amazon or its affiliates, or a variant or misspelling of a trademark of Amazon or its affiliates, in any domain name – for example, a domain name such as <endlessboots.com>, <amaozn.com>, <amazonauctions.net>, <kindlemagazines.mydomain.info>, or <kindlewirelessreader.co.uk> would be unsuitable;
(g) include any trademark of Amazon or its affiliates in any username, group name, or other identifier on any social networking website – for example, a username such as “Endless Shoes,” “Amazon Japan,” or “Kindle For You” registered on a social networking site such as Twitter or Facebook would be unsuitable; or
(h) otherwise violate intellectual property rights.
If we reject your application, you are welcome to reapply at any time. However, if we accept your application and we later determine that your site is unsuitable, we may terminate this Operating Agreement.
You will ensure that the information in your Program application and otherwise associated with your account, including your email address and other contact information and identification of your site, is at all times complete, accurate, and up-to-date. We may send notifications (if any), approvals (if any), and other communications relating to the Program and this Operating Agreement to the email address then-currently associated with your Program account. You will be deemed to have received all notifications, approvals, and other communications sent to that email address, even if the email address associated with your account is no longer current.
In addition, if at any time following your enrollment in the Program you become a resident of Colorado, North Carolina or Rhode Island, you will become ineligible to participate in the Program, and this Operating Agreement will automatically terminate, on the date you establish residency in that state. In addition, you must promptly notify us in writing of your Colorado, North Carolina or Rhode Island residency, which you may do via the Contact Associates Customer Service form available here.
These are two of the biggest sticking points that I want clear precise advice from an attorney. By agreeing to abide by one, am I in violation to the other.
If I can get by using Delaware, then it is a win/win for me as I already have representation there (as well as paying annual franchise taxes).
Last edited by Gerry; 11-06-2010 at 05:34 PM.
"Just a lot of embarrassment, embarrassed to be part of group of domainers who would do this to their fellow man.",
Condemnation of Mobee boys and investors by our precious Mother Theresa of Domaindom
If you are doing business as a corporation or other legal entity, I would think the physical address of your business is the issue. That is the "permanent address" in the Amazon agreement, the way I read it.
Where you are incorporated is your corporate domicile. That is an issue if someone wants to sue you personally, and NV is the best place to defend that type of action. Where you do business is another thing. In your case, it sounds like your permanent residence is NC. Why you don't simplify your taxes by doing business only in your state of domicile is beyond me.
I am incorporated in Nevada AND my physical/ principle place of business is Nevada. With an online business, you can live anywhere.
Anyway, I am going to change my sig. It may not be worth my time trying to convince domainers, many of whom have their own idiosyncratic ways of doing business, to look at other more professional ways. I was only trying to get folks to look at it. I have a white paper on Nevada, if anyone is interested. It has certainly been fantastic for me. I don't worry about zoning or other legal issues relating to my business.
I started this post, and while Nevada is a bit off track I am glad that you discussed this here. Please don't be turned off by Domainers as you put it. All domainers are not alike.
Please PM or email me your Nevada info.
John
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