PC or MAC for designing

[seeker]

as I said, i use both systems, and If you read the beginning of the thread, I suggested that if somene has a choice of only getting 1 system, the PC wins.

I am lucky enough to have bought my first personal computer in 1978, and since owned many, many different OD's (especially Eropean ones).

Risc OS was great in the 90s (from Acorn).
now, as far as a 2.8gig pentium beating a dual G5 in photoshop, with all due respect, thats bull.

I have many computers in my office, and we 'play' all kinds of games with my empoyees with betting about which is faster etc.., so I know from furst hand experience, that a dual G5 will beat a hyperthreaded p4 3.2, by a BIG difference.
But that is for photoshop, and specifically the application of filters on large images.

I love my PCs, but I give the Mac the credit it deserves.

[Nexus]

I am going to be buying a new computer. Does anyone have any insight as to which is better suited for web design functions, a PC or a MAC?

So, I'll probably sit forever between these TWO machines. Currently I have my Mac OS X/Mac 9 G4 box networked with my Dell Optiplex Windows 2000 desktop machine. I have a Dell Inspiron Windows 2000 laptop connected as well.

Mac by FAR was a better "look" and *some* neater features. However, the ONLY real demerits on the PC, are making sure you update regularly, so that you don't wake up with a virus the next morning. I mean... its horrible. A good virus protection program, and due diligence will solve that problem though. Mac OS 9 isn't worth spending time on, but MacOS X (Panther) brings a few nice features to the table in a web designers OS.

For instance... MacOS comes NATIVE with a world-class web server, from which you can serve an unlimited amount of domain names from. Windows personal web server usually let's you set up ONE web server at a time, unless you have Windows Server. Pretty lame. The stuff you can do with Apache is pretty cool. It's available for Windows too, but I'm always told its a different beast, and I've yet to make it through installation without realizing I needed to give it more time. On my Mac dev, I currently have names like:

http://www.figma.dev/
http://www.optimize.dev/
http://www.freewho.dev/
http://www.scriptnexus.dev/

Etc, etc, set up so that browsing to these get my DEVELOPMENT websites. Very nice and convenient. All done through Apache, and most of this running out of the box (with a few configurations). If you're a web developer doing Unix development... the Mac is the environment that will be MOST like your live site. I'm currently testing websites like ScriptNexus... which are very complicated-interconnected-php-marshpits... and on my MacOS with PHP and MySQL installed... its a walk in the park knowing I'm always ready to dive into testing... staging my work in a mirror image envirnment for when its pushed live.

On the Mac, I use a program called Tex-Edit Plus to edit my text. On the PC I use an awesome piece of software called NoteTab Std. NoteTab's "tab" interface and regex file search abilities make it a winner in my book, but when I've run into problems with Windows memory management issues, I've had the Mac step in, and its pulled through with some gargantuan tasks. For instance, in one circumstance, I had Smarty's (php-based template engine) "debug" environment spit out over 5 megabytes of debugging information in HTML... and the ONLY browser that stood its ground in rendering that 5 megabyte HTML file was Safari. Internet Explorer hung (on both), Forefox hung (on both), I'd almost lost hope.

Tex-Edit Plus is also great because I can have it read articles to me, while highlighting the word or sentences it is currently reading. Allows for "pause" and "play", and starting from the currently selected sentence. This makes use of the Mac's built in voice synthesis. It's come in handy, definitely when I'm working and listening.

I personally think unfortunately, much on the Mac still needs work. As nice as the new OS is, and as many sutzkies await in the bowels of its system, many BASIC things get on my nerves.

MY TOP GRIPES on MAC OS X:

1. You cannot order a directory listing with folders clumped at the top! Looking for a folder to navigate too inside a huge directory? Too bad! You'll need to scroll through files and folders alphabetized as if they're the same.
2. FTP solutions. The operating system itself TRIES to perform FTP if you use the "Connect" command. Goodness knows you can do this on Windows (connect to any FTP server using Explorer). If you try to pull up some of the nice FTP solutions for the Mac, most of them are in my opinion flawed for high-volume use. I've been messing with Fugu and Cyberduck lately... and nothing seems to beat FileZilla, or even WSFTP on the PC. Just rock solid and dependable. Fugu seems to snarl at being forced to do normal FTP, and CyberDuck has screwed me with an unforegivable dialog box that comes up repeatedly, and refuses to be told "Auto-ok yourself, dammit!" (usually misc. write issues, that I'm generally not concerned about when uploading 2 GB of data... just tell me in a log, ok?)
3. Most everything... is still for the PC. No getting around that. In general, its tolerable, because the MacOS is really that good. --But, every so often, you'll still run into important services and features that are Windows only. #1, god HELP you if you nee to connect to a Frontpage web on your Mac (for a client). I think you're kind of screwed. On my PC, I can browse to a Frontpage Web, and copy and move files normally. Frontpage stinks, but its popular. There is a world outside of Frontpage, but its nice to have options. Microsoft tries to keep Windows Media updated, but its not possible to do everything.
4. I'm sorry... but for managing files and stuff, Windows WINS hands down. Mac's new terminal support is fine and good, but in Windows... you can simply CUT/COPY/PASTE files, see directories at the TOP of a list, NOT have to deal will "filetype" issues (where a file, even with the correct extension refuses to be seen by a program that can open it), paste file locations into the address bar, edit/rename/paste/copy inside of File Open requesters, etc, etc. For whatever reason, MacOS X is still a little slow. On OS X, you can "COPY" files (in clipboard fashion), but you can't "CUT" (and thereby MOVE files this way). Far as I know, you can't hit a "REFRESH" button, if you just added something to a directory (from another computer or something), and it hasn't shown up yet. Also, Windows IMAGE thumbnailing is MUCH more robust. MacOS does it, but it takes some coercion, and doesn't THUMBNAIL html files... which I have to say is a HUGE coup for Windows. Being able to look at HTML files in "thumbnail" mode is an invaluable OS level feature for web developers.

MY TOP BENEFITS ON MACOS X:

1. Exposé. Hit F11, and everything flies out of your way. Hit F10 and everything appears in miniaturized windows, and you can find the window you were looking for. Hands down, HUGE time saver. The feature SCREAMS "Don't jerk me around, just show me how to get to work."
2. Apple mail. I prefer this for corresponding with clients/etc. It's just very good, clean, and smart. On Windows... if you're starting fresh, get Thunderbird, don't use Outlook Express. Don't even get used to it. I have GB of mail to still convert, it it sickens me.
3. Generally, MacOS X has had better memory management. I max out my memory all the time, and Mac OS X has been able to keep me from moving into bad places. Windows lets me open up a bunch of stuff, and then start flaking out on me in the middle of my work. Usually things like not being able to get menus or contextual menus up, but it gets very scarey because at worst, the application just dies... having an "unexpected error" and dissappearing with my work. Both OS's do this last part however, so its more about how you want to spend the time leading up to it.
4. Run multiple OS' in tandem. If you REALLY do like Mac OS X, and don't care to run Windows if you don't have to, Virtual PC still kicks ass. A friend of mine has gone to a non-Microsoft house, and "gets by" with Virtual PC. It's still (as always) a little pokier than running a "real" Windows machine, but its definitely zippy enough for development. Best of both worlds. Moveover, Microsoft like Connectix Virtual PC so much... they bought them. The idea of running multiple versions of Windows on a Windows box (for testing) I guess was too good to turn down.

Years ago I would have said "it's the Mac"! Hands down. But now, I'd have to admit aspects of the PC are much better and have improved to the point of dissolving much of the "line". To be honest, I think XP is a sack of cow dung, and will remain on Windows 2000 for a while yet. I've heard nightmares about XP's stability, but I've also heard "stable as a rock". I honestly think it depends on WHAT YOU DO. Not calling the "rock hard" commenters computer-couch-potatoes, but I have to wonder about difference in how people use the computer being important. The XP interface seems cumbersome and over-blown to me compared to the original interface in Winows 2000. Everytime I need to use an XP machine, its irritating as hell.

The MacOS X is a NEW and different beast from anything before it. I waited a while before jumping on board from Mac OS 9. It's pretty powerful. A lot goes for it, but you never know where you business will turn. Getting a Mac has always been a leap of faith. I don't think it'll be the end of the world no matter which you choose... but while picking a PC would never be a "wrong" choice, you'll never know what you may have missed working on a Mac.

I think SOUND/MUSIC design is still best on the Mac. Authoring DVD's? Macintosh. Multimedia in general? Mac is aces. I got Roxio's latest "Toast", and its extremely cool. General "web design"? Best stick with a PC. General "graphic design"? Its a toss up. I'm more familiar with the PC on this though.

All said, I'm very glad with having both and will continue to use both every day. They're like a tag-team for me. If I moved to a desert island, and had to pick one for "design" however, I'd have to stick with my Windows 2000 machine (and then deal with not having power on a desert island...)

~ Nexus

[oberheimer]

That's completely false, in any sense of the word. I've personally done testing with Photoshop between a friends dual processor G5 that ran him almost $5,000, and my Pentium 2.8 gHz, which cost me about $1400. I did it exactly because so many people blindly claim mac has some vastly better performance record, and I wanted to know for myself. What I tested in Photoshop, as far as load times and render times, the two machines results were virtually identical.

It's funny you mention googling.

Mac Slaughtered

That is the first site listed when I googled: mac vs pc in photoshop


Fact is Mac's may perform slightly better for some video editing, and people who grow up using Mac's are generally so intimidated by a PC they go into instant denial whenever someone says a PC might be a better option. If you know how either system works, both are very stable and both work very well. The last time my XP machine crashed was almost 8 months ago, and as it turned out that was due to a conflict between the BIOS and XP. These things happen.

When you're as big as Microsoft and you've got 10's of 1,000's of different companies writing software and firmware to work with your OS, issues are going to pop up. More than 90% of the working world is using Microsoft's OS'es, and among that 90%, the majority are largely inept and undereducated about PC's, leaving an irresistable target for hackers, virus writers, etc. Everyone wants a shot at the #1 contender.

Until Linux produces a viable end user system simple enough for the basic untechnical dummy to understand, Windows will rule.

As far as pricing goes, Mac's don't even begin to compete. PC prices will beat out Mac's anyday, anytime, anywhere. Repair costs for Mac are much higher because people who bother to learn Mac troubleshooting and hardware are few and far between. From personal experience of the people I've known who've owned Mac's, when it would start crashing they just put up with it, because nobody around town had a clue what was wrong with it. At least with Windows & Linux, they're mainstream enough you can find solutions to problems when they do occur.

So if you're comfortable using a Mac, by all means, go for it. If you're ALSO comfortable using a PC, you will save considerable amounts of money going that route and you'll get a machine just as capable (assuming you don't buy a piece of crap).

</rant>

Look here mac is much faster in photoshop, all graphic programs

http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

So why should you buy a pc when mac is faster. The os is much more stable aswell, no virus, no spyware etc

[Virtual Fuse]

My current computer is a pretty good VIAO PC, but it is time to upgrade to a better processor and higher memory in an all in one solution. I have no interest in adding memory or replacing processors. This is why I inquired about this issue...

Thanks for all the responses. I am definetly informed more now. Although I am still in limbo. One week it is PC and the next it is MAC. At this point I am leaning towards a kick-butt VIAO PC. But I have given serious thought to a G5 MAC w/ virtual PC (so I can see my designs in a PC format).

I use several programs, over fifteen, most dealing with web development, two are rare and custom, that I received from other developers, and are not on the open market. Will they work on a MAC? I don't know I guess until I can test them out. What are the return policies on computers these days? I have spent several hours on friends MACs, but I have in no way mastered it like I think I have the PC. I can always keep my old PC for software issues but I would rather just retire it entirely. I wish I knew more about software capatability over a larger scale besides just Adobe and Macromedia.

I guess the major reasons why I am seriously considering a MAC:

My computer has crashed 3 times. As a result I have lost alot of valuable information. After the second crash, I have started backing up my entire "SECOND hard drive" every month or so onto my Linux web server. I would rather not worry about doing this time consuming effort.

I have had two serious viruses on my PC. One had to be removed personally and took me three days. My virus software did not help in that matter. I do not know how I got them accept maybe by viewing some webpage. I never open email attachments or download anything that are not identifiable.

I guess my knowledge about PC's is keeping me from making the leap into unknown MAC territory... Even though I should, how will I ever know for sure until I try?

These comments have been highly valuable though. Keep them coming... I will let you guys know when I make a decision. And if I choose a G5 MAC I will be sure to give my two cents....

[Acro]

Except for laptops, I never buy pre-built computers. I build my own PC from scratch, using the components of my choice for stability and performance - and economy as well.

[007]

I prefer PC's over Mac's simply because I have used them primarily throughout my career. I have never had any problems designing on PC's, thus I don't see why I should switch to Mac's. Mac's cost more, as well.

I agree with RADiSTAR. I always custom build my entire PC. I don't even purchase barebones systems. I do it all from scratch simply because I don't want to pay for things I won't use, and I also don't want to "settle" for anything I don't quite like. I shop around, sure, but there are cetrain ways I like to price out my pc's and a standard PC off the shelf just isn't going to do it for me. I also save a lot of money by building my own.

This is a key point I use in any Mac vs. PC debates I get into. You can't really custom build a Mac.

My vote goes to PC's. They might not be the very best overall, but they every bit as good in my mind at least, and they are a lot more affordable.

[oberheimer]

I prefer PC's over Mac's simply because I have used them primarily throughout my career. I have never had any problems designing on PC's, thus I don't see why I should switch to Mac's. Mac's cost more, as well.

I agree with RADiSTAR. I always custom build my entire PC. I don't even purchase barebones systems. I do it all from scratch simply because I don't want to pay for things I won't use, and I also don't want to "settle" for anything I don't quite like. I shop around, sure, but there are cetrain ways I like to price out my pc's and a standard PC off the shelf just isn't going to do it for me. I also save a lot of money by building my own.

This is a key point I use in any Mac vs. PC debates I get into. You can't really custom build a Mac.

My vote goes to PC's. They might not be the very best overall, but they every bit as good in my mind at least, and they are a lot more affordable.

You don't have to custom built a mac because they are so good as they are.
Ok they are abit more expensive but you get what you pay for, a really good computer. And i need tha mac, because i work with magazines (i need adobe indesign and quak express, + the same font as they use). They are even faster with photoshop and i like the apple cineam monitor (widescreen 17, 20, 23, 30")

[harleyx]

Look here mac is much faster in photoshop, all graphic programs

http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

So why should you buy a pc when mac is faster. The os is much more stable aswell, no virus, no spyware etc

It's a comparison by Apple of Apple ON APPLE'S WEBSITE. This aught to give you a clue... not to mention they convieniently tested three of their dual processor systems against 2 single processor PC systems, and Dell's of all things. Uggh - god knows Dell, home of the "monitor not included, ENDS THIS WEDNESDAY" weekly sale, never skimps on anything. So two processors are faster than one, what a revelation.

So why should I buy a PC when a Mac is faster?

PC's are:

*Cheaper and faster for the $$ spent
*Easily repairable, easily upgradable
*Rock solid (when properly setup)
*Compatible with virtually anything
*Much larger resale market, higher resale value
*I don't need to feel like a rebel

PS - I don't hate macs, but people who walk around with the mentality that mac is the end all be all of computing, PC's are evil, and they're rightous rebels for being different do bother me. Alot.

[007]

I agree harley, 100%. Macs are good systems, but when it comes down to it, it IS possible to build a PC that will outperform Mac's on the market, and if not, then it's still possible to build a PC that will equal any Mac on the market. Each has their benefits, but when it comes down to it, PC's are a third the price, and in the end are almost as good, and can produce the same results. So you wait a half a second longer to render your image. Is that worth a few thousand dollars difference in price?

And oberheimer, that 17" widescreen Mac monitor is not a valid argument for Mac's being better than PC's. You can get the same type of monitor for PC's, and laptops. VAIO anyone? I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet a few adapters should be all you need to actually use that "Mac" monitor on a PC.. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Nexus]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with most of what you say, except when you end with "few thousand dollars difference" and "one third the price". "One thousand" difference, and "half the price" is enough to get a valid argument, I don't think you need to embellish. Regarding the monitor you're probably right.

In the end... here's what matters. Can you get your work done effectively? Programs like iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, and GarageBand smoke on the Mac and ship free with it. Not just the software but the level of integration is significant. If you can work on a PC laptop and then on a Mac laptop (and perform basic functions of getting something done), and you can do it significantly better on a Mac... use the Mac. If its the PC, use the PC. Consider the Mac "compatibility" issue too. But, overall... people have options, and that's the important thing. As a FULL BLOWN Unix-based solution, the Mac is a paragon. If you really need Windows compatibility, price is a large factor, and you can't settle for programs like Virtual PC... the Mac isn't for you.

Some comparable Mac & PC systems cost roughly the same, but I think accessories and other things factor in as well. I don't like "fear" as a reason to discount an awesome solution for efficiency.

~ Nexus

[reclad]

My working setup is a 19" Trinitron P900 (dual input with
a switch at the front) with a Mac on one side, and an XP box
on the other. 4-port adsl modem, one cat5a cable to each.

Usage ? Mac 90+%, XP 10-% and ONLY XP when I have to.

Yes I've got Photoshop, Fireworks etc. on both boxes.
No I NEVER use the XP instead of the Mac for graphics.

Mac Pros: Everything said before, and yes guys Mac IS
much easier to use, on just about every level of usage.

.... and deleting a program on a Mac is a DREAM compared
with the CRAZY MS bits-in-the-system-folder-god-help-you
-if-the-unistaller-is-not-present-or-working Microsoft way.

And did anyone mention XP SpyWARE, MalWARE, Steal-my-passwordsWARE
plant-nasty-code-everyWARE etc. etc. for the XP box ?

Don't get me started about Internet Explorer, Outlook Express etc.

I'm not the first to say that MS should totally junk their
bug-ridden unfixable code and start again, just as Mac did
about 5+ years ago.

Mac Cons: Dopey MS-only code writers whose e-commerce and other
other 'web-skills' have turned out a slew of non Mac-compliant
web sites. Fortunately not TOO many, but enough to save the
XP box from rusting from disuse.

Am I biassed ? - Guilty as charged your honour

[oberheimer]

It's a comparison by Apple of Apple ON APPLE'S WEBSITE. This aught to give you a clue... not to mention they convieniently tested three of their dual processor systems against 2 single processor PC systems, and Dell's of all things. Uggh - god knows Dell, home of the "monitor not included, ENDS THIS WEDNESDAY" weekly sale, never skimps on anything. So two processors are faster than one, what a revelation.

So why should I buy a PC when a Mac is faster?

PC's are:

*Cheaper and faster for the $$ spent
*Easily repairable, easily upgradable
*Rock solid (when properly setup)
*Compatible with virtually anything
*Much larger resale market, higher resale value
*I don't need to feel like a rebel

PS - I don't hate macs, but people who walk around with the mentality that mac is the end all be all of computing, PC's are evil, and they're rightous rebels for being different do bother me. Alot.

Ok they are cheaper and easy to uppgrade.
But mac are also easy to uppgrade if you want to.
Rock solid maybe but there is alot of virus, and that is a problem.
Larger resell value i would say the opposite mac is bettter when you resell it. I have sold a few mac and pc and i never get anything from the pc.
And the thing with rebel, i use the system thats the best for me. I can't use a pc if im a graphic designer because i use quark xpress for layout and i need the same font's as the publishing company. So i would'nt say that im a rebel, becasue i don't have a choice.
And i really like the mac aswell

[Dr. Domaining]

PCs and Macs both have their advantages and disadvantages. Macs are easier to use, less prone to viruses and perform great for design/video purposes. PCs are cheaper, more widely used and come in array of different options. Macs are more expensive and not compatible with PC software. PCs are more difficult to use and more prone to viruses.

When it comes down to choosing one over the other I would go with a PC. You will get more computer for the money. They are more complex but I prefer that. You can easily design/edit video without problems and you will be on a machine that the majority of the world uses. Which will allow you to relate to more people and test your sites in the same fashion that the majority of your potential viewers will be viewing your sites.

Yes, more professional designers use Macs than those who use PCs. However, you will be able to produce the same result with either machine. The biggest plus to owning a Mac is the added security of knowing that you are protected against a majority of the viruses that are out there these days.
You can't go wrong with the Mac as long as you are willing to spend a great deal more for your computer. I would also suggest having a PC as well if you are to also own a Mac for various reasons. If you are to just go with a Mac you won't be disappointed ecspecially if you go with the new 30" flat screen monitor.

[Eagle]

...you will be able to produce the same result with either machine...

True 100%

The biggest plus to owning a Mac is the added security of knowing that you are protected against a majority of the viruses that are out there these days.

The majority of viruses are written for Windows because it's the most popular OS. There's little point in writing viruses for Mac as it's got such a comparatively small user base. Macs are just as prone to viruses as PCs.

[cursal]

I custom built my PC and it matches and even out performs some of my friend Macs. I am PC man, but Macs are tempting.

The virus for Macs are few, but they are growing. Just think, if all the mac owners converted PC people then the Virus count for Macs would be higer than they are right now for PCs.
Economics of supply and demand that creates opportunity

But I agree with what Eagle said.....
Good to see you over here