Dropcatchers - Some really bad people running these services.

[Adam Dicker]

Dropcatchers --- without naming names I have had many auctions that I placed a high bid on and then watched the 'other' bids come very clkose to my my bid and literally stop $5 away from my high bid. Do you think there is something funny about that --- HELL Yes!

This has not happened everwhere but has happened on more than one occasion to me and I know what's going on, it's obvious.

When the current bid is $200 and I bid $1500 and it ends around $1495, that's pretty obvious it was bid up.

I must say, they are not all bad.

Who else has seen this happen?

-=DCG=-

[RobM]

Seen it lots at both snapnames and namejet. Also amazing the amount of times you'll be the only bidder on a name and *suddenly* a second person appears just in time to start a public auction. Usually the 'second man' never bids again. Unfortunately I don't see an end to this type of behaviour as the whole process can never be truly transparent.

[vital]

seen this yesterday. To be honest, I was about taking the name for up to $100, because it has no bids since I backordered it, but at the end the final bid was around $340 (I bid $350) which was weird, but there is probably no way to get rid of this.

[Gerry]

If there always appears to be this one unfortunate soul who never wins anything and comes oh-so-close each and every time, then you can guarantee that this is insider proxy bidding.

Although it was not domains, about 8 years ago I uncovered a group of antiques dealers who were doing this on eBay. I noticed a very, very unfortunate and unlucky bidder always coming up a buck short of the reserve price. Poor guy never won anything.

Poor guy was stupid. The only time he ever bid on anything was when this particular antiques auction house had listing on eBay. Granted, it was very easy to track bidding history on eBay.

I compiled enough evidence and proof (for the sake of the thread, I will not go into detail how I managed this) to turn them over to ebay and the authorities.

Here's a note to anyone reading this and working at these drop catchers doing illegal proxy bidding: it is a federal crime called wire fraud. Once it (product) crosses state lines, it becomes a federal crime.

[JuniperPark]

Uh Oh... the whole Snapnames / Halvarez game again? Is he in prison or out doing this again?


Doc Com -- eBay doesn't tell anyone the amount of your proxy bid, so how would the shill bidder know when to stop?

[RobM]

I think Doc Com meant that the guy bidding knew what the reserve price was so bid it up to just below the reserve. Obviously the next bid from a poor unsuspecting legitimate bidder would hit reserve.

[Rockefeller]

I've had several auctions at namejet where the minimum bid is $69, I'll bid $500 and the next bid is $450-$499...can't be a coincidence.

[Gerry]

Doc Com -- eBay doesn't tell anyone the amount of your proxy bid, so how would the shill bidder know when to stop?

When you are the business partner of the person listing the items, you know.

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------

Uh Oh... the whole Snapnames / Halvarez game again? Is he in prison or out doing this again?

As far as I know, he was never in prison and never prosecuted. Oversee is too chickenshit to prosecute in order to avoid the bad press. Posting this in domainer blogs has nothing to do with mainstream press.

Too often I have seen major crimes committed and the culprit walk away free in order for the company/institution to avoid the bad press (including a billing clerk at a hospital who was stealing the identity of newly deceased patients and getting credit cards in their names).

[Onward]

Seen it lots at both snapnames and namejet. Also amazing the amount of times you'll be the only bidder on a name and *suddenly* a second person appears just in time to start a public auction. Usually the 'second man' never bids again. Unfortunately I don't see an end to this type of behaviour as the whole process can never be truly transparent.

In many cases - this magical (after the auction closes where you were the only bidder) '2nd bidder' is the registrar handling the drop ( my experience - Register.com) using "NameJet reserve" to actively (NOT a proxy amount) bid you up in their own auction.

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

I've had several auctions at namejet where the minimum bid is $69, I'll bid $500 and the next bid is $450-$499...can't be a coincidence.

Yes. this is common - it forces you to have to be available when the auction ends - I have missed out on many names because sometimes I cant be online when the auction ends.

[silentg]

Namejet Reserve is the username used for private auctions. The owner of the domain sets up a reserve and Namejet Reserve will bid up until the reserve is met. I had to remove few names from my backorder list because they kept getting reauctioned because the reserve was met.

[Rockefeller]

Namejet Reserve is the username used for private auctions. The owner of the domain sets up a reserve and Namejet Reserve will bid up until the reserve is met. I had to remove few names from my backorder list because they kept getting reauctioned because the reserve was met.

That could explain several of the mysterious bids on auctions that I participated in.

[Onward]

Namejet Reserve is the username used for private auctions. The owner of the domain sets up a reserve and Namejet Reserve will bid up until the reserve is met. I had to remove few names from my backorder list because they kept getting reauctioned because the reserve was met.

That is not all it is used for as far as I have experienced - at least one Registrar (register.com) also uses this 'namejetreserve' UN and actively bids on their own names - to be clear - not a set reserve that is automatically bid up - they bid actively. A little over a year ago, I had a case where I was the only one in the auction when it closed on namejet...the next day I was winning in an auction against namejetreserve - the last day of the auction - I was out bid by namejetreserve - After investigating down the road - I saw that it was originally a Register.com drop and subsequently owned by register.com after they out bid me using the namejetreserve UN.

I avoid any register.com drop if I am the only potential bidder - and take my chances that I can get it when it actually drops.

[biggedon]

after clubdrop, they got smarter

[ksinclair]

So what can we do? Bid what its worth to you and see if you get it.

The only way to change it is, if the identity of each bidder were fully known. Name, address, everything.
It would be interesting if someone started an auction site that had that, and ran only premium domains.
Someone ought to do that.

[dotcomocity]

been there....

[BobDiGiTaL]

that's why I never put a massive proxy bid in.
I just keep extending the auction by outbidding the highest bidder, so namejet, er, I mean the dropcatcher doesn't know how high I will go for that name. There's no way the dropcatcher can watch all the auctions.

If you put a $1500 proxy bid in, you are only asking to get bid up.

[chipmeade]

Dropcatchers --- without naming names ...

Come on Adam. Purge! didn't the blogger post feel good?

[Gerry]

So what can we do? Bid what its worth to you and see if you get it.

The only way to change it is, if the identity of each bidder were fully known. Name, address, everything.
It would be interesting if someone started an auction site that had that, and ran only premium domains.
Someone ought to do that.

No, the only way to change this is for honest people to run things in an honest manner and when there are billions of dollars at stake in domaining, that is not going to happen.

This is the most profitable, multi-billion dollar industry in the world that is totally unregulated, and no oversight.

When everyone comes to the realization that this is a fvck you industry and every person for themselves, then perhaps people will realize that every dollar and every transaction is a risk of somehow being tied to fraudulent activity.

Why would anyone be surprised to find out that there is widespread and deep rooted fraud, scams, theft, and security breaches when billions of dollars are on the line?

[Skinny]

It's sad but it wouldn't surprise me if this were true at all.

As Doc Com said people will do whatever to make money and it's no surprise that everyone doesn't play fair and by the rules.

Makes me more nervous about setting proxy bids because I suspected this kind of stuff can happen.

The hard part is to prove it with evidence. . . and until then people will just keep getting screwed.

Skinny

[katherine]

This is the most profitable, multi-billion dollar industry in the world that is totally unregulated, and no oversight.

That and SEM.
How long until the industry gets audited and becomes transparent ?