Are expired domains now at the disposal for registrars?

[touchring]

Are expired domains now at the disposal for registrars? Meaning, like one day after expiry, the registrar can do whatever they want to your domain? E.g. sell to another person.

[Acro]

No.

[Rubber Duck]

No.

Well actually Yes!

http://www.moniker.com/help/delete-autorenew-policy.jsp

....During this period a customer can renew a domain name registration; however, a grace period is not guaranteed and can change or be eliminated at any time without notice.....

........Please note that Moniker.com is obligated to pay the Registry for all domain renewals the day the domain name expires if it has not been renewed by a customer prior to the expiration date. We therefore take ownership of expired domains until such time they are renewed, back ordered, sold, or deleted......

[touchring]

The policies vary from registrar to registrar and is very confusing. Is there a "compulsory" timeframe that registrar need to reserve the domain for customers by ICANN? From what i gather from many threads, this seems to be 30 days, and after which the registrar can do anything to the domain.

[sasquatch]

No.

Of course it's YES. Many of them can and do whatever they please. There is a tremendous conflict of interest with registrars who make mostr of their money these days by not selling regfee registration to the general public, but by peddling dropping merchandise to well greased insiders.

The game is rigged. And illegal. But this is truly a wild west and nobody on top cares to do anything about it, because they all profit from it in different ways. The class action lawsuit that will bankropt the lowlifes is the only way to stop these increasingly bolder human cockroaches who would sell their their own ass for a piece of dough.

[Anthony Ng]

http://www.icann.org/registrars/eddp.htm

[Acro]

No, the registrar cannot do "as they please" with an expired domain. It will enter the 35 day - give or take a day - redemption period before becoming ripe for deletion or other manipulation.

dwrixon; nice selective copy and paste from the Moniker Ts&Cs page. I wonder why you didn't include the notice about redemption & pending delete cycles below. I wonder if that's related to your recent inane rant about Moniker having an alleged security issue.

We currently endeavor to provide a grace period that extends 35 days past the expiration date, to allow the renewal of domain name registration services. On day 21 after the expiration date of a domain, the expired domain will be removed from the customer’s main account management view and all name servers will be changed to Moniker.com name servers. Expired domains will then resolve to special landing pages with a renewal link and Moniker WhoIs will also display the renewal link in an effort to provide as many opportunities to alert our customers that their domains are expired and allow the renewal of such domains that are expired within the grace period. There will also be a Pending Delete status link located inside the My Account area of a customer’s account and included in our weekly renewal and expiration reports that are emailed each week to our customers. During this period a customer can renew a domain name registration; however, a grace period is not guaranteed and can change or be eliminated at any time without notice.

[touchring]

ok, so they can do as they pleased after 35 days?

[Acro]

Technically, yes. There are cases where the domains don't enter the deletion cycle, but depending on the relationship of the registrar with a drop catching service they end up there.

[Rubber Duck]

No, the registrar cannot do "as they please" with an expired domain. It will enter the 35 day - give or take a day - redemption period before becoming ripe for deletion or other manipulation.

dwrixon; nice selective copy and paste from the Moniker Ts&Cs page. I wonder why you didn't include the notice about redemption & pending delete cycles below. I wonder if that's related to your recent inane rant about Moniker having an alleged security issue.

Well they clearly take it away from you after 21 days, but you can have it back provided they haven't sold it or want to hang on to it, but this is still subject to the proviso that the terms can be changed without notice and they are not actually obliged to give you any grace at all after expiry. This was clearly not ICANNs original intention which was intended to be a Registar Hold period followed by a Redemption Grace Period. However, the ICANN policy is so badly drafted that the registrars have realised that they are virtually free to do as they please.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[katherine]

From my experience I would say that in practice registrars can do whatever they want and hold on to the names as long as they wish (if the names are worthy or profitable). Obviously there is a conflict of interest and their actions are sometimes clearly against the interest of the registrants (their customers).
This may be frowned upon by ICANN but until ICANN does something about it registrars are and will be having fun.

http://www.dnforum.com/f26/my-name-vanished-thread-119638.html

[MonikerMan]

Moniker does not take ownership of your domain name when your name expires. Our customers have 35 days to renew their domains after expiration and any time before expiration. At day 21 after expiration (after we have paid for the domain renewal on our customer's behalf), we remove the domain from the customer account, however, our customers can renew the domains for yet another 14 days by a special link from their account, from whois, and from typing in the domain and being taken to a renewal page. Please note the we notify our customers of expiration 75 days before the expiration date, and continue to notify every Monday for 75 days prior and 35 days after. in addition, our auto-renew system renews domains automatically 14 days prior to expiration as long as there are funds or a valid credit card in a customer account.

If a domain is not renewed by then, it will be offered to SnapNames to see if there is interest in the domain prior to the domain being deleted. If the domain is deleted, the customer still has 30 days after it is deleted to redeem the domain from the registry.

Now, other registrars take posession of your domains and even delete them the day they expire or some time after. We do not take posession of names or delete them right when they expire.

Our policies, protection, and grace periods are considered the best in the industry. I want to make sure this is very clear to anyone questioning how this process works.

dwrixon - you need to be aware that you do not own your domains, you pay for the right to use them. If you do not pay for them, you will loose them. If this is such majore issue for you, you should renew your domains for 10 years and make sure your domains are at the most secure registrar in the world so you never have to debate what happens if you let your names expire.

[Dave Zan]

Let's put it this way: registrars can do anything with an expired domain name
as long as: a) the domain name's still with them, and b) it's within their legal
agreements among themselves and with ICANN.

Until ICANN, a court of competent jurisdiction, or even a "law" giving the final
say on this, registrars are practically free to do anything they want with an
expired name. But again, all within bounds of what "current practices dictate".

Note I put some words in quotation marks.

If you don't like the terms of your registrar, transfer them to those who meet
your expectations.

[Rubber Duck]

Let's put it this way: registrars can do anything with an expired domain name
as long as: a) the domain name's still with them, and b) it's within their legal
agreements among themselves and with ICANN.

Until ICANN, a court of competent jurisdiction, or even a "law" giving the final
say on this, registrars are practically free to do anything they want with an
expired name. But again, all within bounds of what "current practices dictate".

Note I put some words in quotation marks.

If you don't like the terms of your registrar, transfer them to those who meet
your expectations.

If you check the Terms and Conditions at Domainsite.com, I think you will find that you are guaranteed a full Register Hold Period and Redemption Grace Period.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[jdk]

........Please note that Moniker.com is obligated to pay the Registry for all domain renewals the day the domain name expires if it has not been renewed by a customer prior to the expiration date. We therefore take ownership of expired domains until such time they are renewed, back ordered, sold, or deleted......

So when the name expires and it goes into Redemption Period, Moniker pays teh fee....the name drops and they are out the money???

dwrixon - you need to be aware that you do not own your domains, you pay for the right to use them. If you do not pay for them, you will loose them. If this is such majore issue for you, you should renew your domains for 10 years and make sure your domains are at the most secure registrar in the world so you never have to debate what happens if you let your names expire.

Amen. You lease the name, not own it.

[mole]

So when the name expires and it goes into Redemption Period, Moniker pays teh fee....the name drops and they are out the money???

Once a registrar pays for the fee, due consideration is given and therefore the registrar has the right to do whatever they see fit with the name, sell it in the auctions, sell it to their friends, keep it for themselves, squirrel it, earn money through PPC or to outrightly develop the name.

If a registrar can prove that they exercised due diligence in the process of informing the registrant prior to a name expiring, that's enough to give legal traction for whatever happens to the name in the registrar's favor.

The really rogue registrars, imho, are those who pester people to renew their names every day for 60 days prior to expiration, or just charge their cards because everything was set to 'auto-renew' default.

How on the earth then can domainers get hold of names as they are never released? Some people just like to sit on names they have basically just lost interest in. These people don't sell because they just can't be bothered with the slightest hassle, and for many people, hassle is EXPENSIVE.

[Rubber Duck]

Once a registrar pays for the fee, due consideration is given and therefore the registrar has the right to do whatever they see fit with the name, sell it in the auctions, sell it to their friends, keep it for themselves, squirrel it, earn money through PPC or to outrightly develop the name.

If a registrar can prove that they exercised due diligence in the process of informing the registrant prior to a name expiring, that's enough to give legal traction for whatever happens to the name in the registrar's favor.

I agree but it doesn't mean that this is morally correct!

The really rogue registrars, imho, are those who pester people to renew their names every day for 60 days prior to expiration, or just charge their cards because everything was set to 'auto-renew' default.

I agree that the number of renewal notices and particularly those from registrars where your name was sold and transferred out years ago can be baffling, and maybe that is part of the intent. The best way to uninform someone, is to surfit them with information.

How on the earth then can domainers get hold of names as they are never released? Some people just like to sit on names they have basically just lost interest in. These people don't sell because they just can't be bothered with the slightest hassle, and for many people, hassle is EXPENSIVE.

Mole for once I have to disagree. I believe if someone has obtained their domain honestly and pays their fee, then they should be the sole arbiteurs of the use it is put to if any. Furthermore, if it drops, it is not the small domainer that is going to benefit, but Snapnames or Pool. If you have run out of ideas for new registrations, which is really inexcusable in view of the number of Ext and the broad spectrum of oppportunity afforded by IDN, I suggest you do arbitrage in the Secondary Market. There are millions of domains for sale out there and not all will require a Kings Ransom. sedo only sells about 1,000 a month, less than 0.1% of their inventory. There must be sellers out there that are prepared to yield on the price a bit. I would say that that offers a much better market opportunity than Pool or Snapnames. You could visit Bazaar or Ebay, which realise very little value most of time, or even fish around some of the Forums. If you buy for Pool, the chances are you will never realise the purchase price, as it Pool is probably the highest profile sales arena in the game.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[mole]

Furthermore, if it drops, it is not the small domainer that is going to benefit, but Snapnames or Pool.

Roughly 20,000+ domains drop every day , so there is hope to get some cheap.

I agree nonetheless that the game is played today with very weird acquisition behavior and ridiculous bids as compared to the days when Yun Ye was building his empire. The late comers to the game are just wannabe Yun Ye's with more money than brains, trying to build their own "empires" at a 1,000x more expensive rate than just 3 years ago. Not realising that the PPC market is already starting to implode as we speak.

[StockDoctor]

Of course we have seen cases where the registrars delete names even prior to their expirations. We have seen cases where it is almost impossible to reach certain registrars to renew a name. Cases where inhouse renewal systems do NOT function correctly. Cases where the registrars make up their own internal redemption policy apart from any registry policy. Cases where the registrars renew the name themselves, but use the previous registrant's whois details, and run ads for themselves. Cases where the registrars test traffic on expired names before deciding to keep or release them. Cases where the registrars cherry pick names and apply different grace periods to names expiring on the same date. On and on. ICANNt nor the registries care the slightest about a registrant.

[mole]

On and on. ICANNt nor the registries care the slightest about a registrant.

wow, what botheration