Far East Claims half of Alexa Top Ten

[Rubber Duck]

For those who like to play down the importance of the far east internet market, it will obviously come as a bit of shock to see the Far East rivalling North America in terms of the most searched sites:

Alexa Rankings

No. 4 Yahoo Japan
No. 5 Sina.com
No. 6 Baidu.com
No. 9 Sohu.com
No. 10 163.com

Far East site then go on to take 11 positions out of the Top 20.

Of course those that believe that the internet is still a US phenomenon, will take heart that some of these site are American owned and none have as yet swapped to IDN URL.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[gariben]

the thing with Asian countries... alot of people surf the Net at internet cafes. For some reason, alot of them have the Alexa toolbar installed. That is why you see alot of Chinese sites being in the top1000.

Alexa can be very basis EVEN for the top1000.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by gariben

the thing with Asian countries... alot of people surf the Net at internet cafes. For some reason, alot of them have the Alexa toolbar installed. That is why you see alot of Chinese sites being in the top1000.

Alexa can be very basis EVEN for the top1000.

America is in denial!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[Blarian]

Originally Posted by gariben

the thing with Asian countries... alot of people surf the Net at internet cafes. For some reason, alot of them have the Alexa toolbar installed. That is why you see alot of Chinese sites being in the top1000.

Alexa can be very basis EVEN for the top1000.

I wonder how much of an impact this actually makes on the alexa results... I mean, are there really THAT many cafe's that have the Alexa toolbar installed that could make a difference of millions traffic wise?

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by Blarian

I wonder how much of an impact this actually makes on the alexa results... I mean, are there really THAT many cafe's that have the Alexa toolbar installed that could make a difference of millions traffic wise?

Frankly, this is a crazy argument. The fact that China alone has nearly as many Broadband Connections as the US probably has a lot more to do with it! The mere fact that this Cyber Cafe argument has come up just show what a condescending view of the Far East Market most Americans have. You all think that a few rockets pointed at Taiwan is the main threat. The real threat is that Chinese Government, unlike its American counterpart, will have Trillions of dollars to invest in just whatever it wants.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[alia]

Well, the "a few" rockets aiming at Taiwan will make one thousand early next year. It's nice to hear that it's not a "real" threat.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by alia

Well, the "a few" rockets aiming at Taiwan will make one thousand early next year. It's nice to hear that it's not a "real" threat.

I understand your concerns, as I lived through the Cold War in the West. However, the truth is that these are mere symptoms of a much greater underlying problem.

The PRCs claim over Taiwan has not been a serious threat up until recently as the US has been able to counter balance the PRC threat and knew whose side it was on. The PRC is testing US resolve in this area, and frankly the US is going to be found lacking.

The PRC has become a very substantial economic power, it now has more broadband connections than the US. The bottom line is the US economy is now heavily dependant on the PRC, and the US is not in a position to act decisively even diplomatically, let alone militarily. The PRC knows this and, in someways justifiably, is trying to reassert itself in its own backyard. The problem is that Taiwan is the bone that two dogs are disputing. If it comes down to a scrap the PRC will walk away with the bone.

At the end of the day, if Taiwan is to come out of this in good shape an accommodation with the PRC is required. Hopefully social and political developments within the PRC will gradually take the heat out the issue, but it is going to be a testing time.

I apologise if you feel that I have trivalised Taiwan's situation, but my argument is that the US and indeed Europe need to move much faster to counter the economic threat that China poses, in order to maintain influence.
What I am not suggesting is that we enter into some kind of a trade war. What is absolutely necessary is that the West raises its game to stay ahead of the field, so that the established Democratic Powers maintain some level of control. The problem is that many in the West, including a healthy majority on this site, consider China to be a trivial irrelevancy. It is not!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[financialtraffic]

Let's talk about who consistantly makes larger online purchases. And, what percentage of the far eastern users even have a credit card, or line of credit. This type of info would give your point more relevancy. Traffic is important only if it's monetizable traffic in my opinion.

The bottom line is that domains are a tool to get at users who are ready, willing and able to make a purchase. If the users that visit your domain have no means to make a purchase, then their market still is of little consequence.

I'm not saying that ecommerce isn't big in the Far East, but rather that even with huge numbers of users the number of transactions dollar for dollar or pound for pound, etc., just doesn't cut it yet and probably won't for quite some time.

If you could give me some data to change my train of thought, I'd appreciate it.

[Rubber Duck]

http://www.icma.com/info/quick-facts.htm

5. 2003 Top 10 Countries

VISA/MC (Credit + Debit)
(Cards in Circulation)
000's
Rank Country Cards
1 USA 755,300
2 CHINA 177,359
3 BRAZIL 148,435
4 UK 125,744
5 JAPAN 121,281
6 GERMANY 109,482

and these are nearly two year out of date during which time broadband connections have more than tripled!!!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

Sorry latest figures are as follows:

8. 2004 “Top 15”/ VISA/MC (Credit and Debit)
Cards in Circulation /(Millions)
Rank Country Cards
1 USA 795,500
2 China 206,093
3 Brazil 192,252
4 UK 139,667
5 Japan 126,847
6 Germany 108,846
7 S. Korea 93,228
8 Taiwan 70,867

[none]

Let's talk about who consistantly makes larger online purchases. And, what percentage of the far eastern users even have a credit card, or line of credit. This type of info would give your point more relevancy. Traffic is important only if it's monetizable traffic in my opinion.

You're absolutely right. That is the crux of the issue.

Some may think monetizable traffic is 5 or even 10 years away, but some of us happen to think it's sooner. I've been blown away by the advancement in the major metros in the last 10 years, and even in the last 2 years. There will undoubtably be mini booms and busts along the way, but economic growth is surging in stair-step fashion. It's a nascent market, unlike the mature market in the west. And what nascent markets bring are bargains.

That said, all the provices and major cities in .com and .net and .cn have been taken, as have most of the obvious 'money terms'.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by vtrader

You're absolutely right. That is the crux of the issue.

That said, all the provices and major cities in .com and .net and .cn have been taken, as have most of the obvious 'money terms'.

If that was Provinces, then check who has got them registered

Further to previous:

19. China has approximately 800 million debit/credit cards with 350,000 card acceptance merchant locations and 68,000 ATM’s.

Source: Nilson Report 836, 06/2005

[none]

If that was Provinces, then check who has got them registered

Yeah, I noticed! Some guy who lives on a 'Farm' and several others own a good chunk.

I've focused on categories, but pickins' have slimmed down considerably.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by vtrader

Yeah, I noticed! Some guy who lives on a 'Farm' and several others own a good chunk.

I've focused on categories, but pickins' have slimmed down considerably.

I have largely given up the China Market from an acquisition standpoint, but India is pretty open. Obviously, not as hot as there are many different scripts for India. However, the main languages, Hindi, Bengali, Marathi, Gujarati, Urdu, Telugu, Tamil and Malayalam are now searchable on all three main Search Engines. I registered some single alpabetics and single numerals this week. Fosed on 1, 2, 3 and the first letter of the alphabet.

If you are interested have a look at:

http://jrgraphix.net/research/unicod...s.php?block=16

I have also recently registered Bangladesh in Bengali at dot com, Pakistan in Urdu as dot net. Also taken out most of the Major cities, although we missed dot com on some. Also registered Google categories such as Search, Images, News etc.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[touchring]

China has probably more internet traffic than North and South America combined, but in terms of e-commerce revenue (PPC/net credit card purchase), it is probably only 1% of the latter. As for India, maybe only 0.1% of America.

Originally Posted by Blarian

I wonder how much of an impact this actually makes on the alexa results... I mean, are there really THAT many cafe's that have the Alexa toolbar installed that could make a difference of millions traffic wise?

That Chinese surf only in Cybercafe is a fallacy, anyone who has been to China will know that it's not easy to find a cybercafe. Most people surf in the office and at home. People go to cybercafe mostly for the same reasons as people go to cybercafe in the West - to play LAN games.

I was considering Alexa factor only a few days ago while checking on Chinese site traffic score, and i thought that Alexa may have greatly underestimated the actual traffic by a few folds - is there a Chinese version of Alexa? How many native Chinese surfer even heard of Alexa or even Amazon.

For comparison, you can compare Overture's - represented by Yahoo - it returns only 1991 searches last mth for 'China' in Chinese, and 488687 times for 'China' in English.

[Olney]

Currently I'm residing in Tokyo again & I have plenty of friends (I have asked) that buy online. The thing is that the delivery system in Japan takes COD so that's extremely common. I have 2 young female roommmates in my house & both get deliveries at least once a week, they might not be norm but they always do COD.

So the stats may be off for people who have credit cards but people certainly are shopping online.

Also bank transfers are completely common & actually easy to do from any ATM...

There's usually stats that miss a few points on "why" something is the way it is.

You can shop on your phone head to the bank & do a bank transfer or you can have something delivered to your apartment & pay when it arrives...


Oh yeah what countries is the predominant cyber cafe thing?
It's certainly not Japan...

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by touchring

China has probably more internet traffic than North and South America combined, but in terms of e-commerce revenue (PPC/net credit card purchase), it is probably only 1% of the latter. As for India, maybe only 0.1% of America.



That Chinese surf only in Cybercafe is a fallacy, anyone who has been to China will know that it's not easy to find a cybercafe. Most people surf in the office and at home. People go to cybercafe mostly for the same reasons as people go to cybercafe in the West - to play LAN games.

I was considering Alexa factor only a few days ago while checking on Chinese site traffic score, and i thought that Alexa may have greatly underestimated the actual traffic by a few folds - is there a Chinese version of Alexa? How many native Chinese surfer even heard of Alexa or even Amazon.

For comparison, you can compare Overture's - represented by Yahoo - it returns only 1991 searches last mth for 'China' in Chinese, and 488687 times for 'China' in English.

The Overture thing is because it is only reporting results from North America. If you go to local Overture sites you get totally different results. That is very little English. The Chinese Overture went Beta earlier in the year but is now not available, although there is one for Taiwan. Should be up and running soon though.

Yes, and there are an awful lot of false assertions made as well. The common perception is that there are no Credit Cards in the Far East. There are actually over 200Million Master/Visa in China alone!!!

One of the reasons the Chinese are probably not buying much at the moment is a limited number of really organised online shopping sites providing the goods and the service they need. If the US is ever going to do anything about its balance of payments, that is going to have to be addressed. The US whinges about the volume of exports coming out of China, but most of corporate America just turns its nose up at China, or is at least not interested in find out how business is done, tailoring products to Chinese markets and "mixing it".

Found this on the net:

http://www.arraydev.com/commerce/JIBC/2005-08/china.htm

Ecommerce in China for 2005 is expected to reach 620 Billion Yuan. At 100x that, America would nearly 8 Trillion dollars per year! Is that correct or is one of us talking rubbish???

On the other hand if you are talking traffic earnings then don't forget PPC only really got going 2-3 years ago in the US. Just see how fast it has come from nowhere! As the Chinese don't need to develop the model, just copy it, things could go really quickly. Sedo typically pay €0.03 for Chinese Clicks, but Google does have much adwords coverage in China. However, the expansion in Japan on Japanese Keywords has been breathtaking, so don't expect that situation to last for long!!!

The other point about domains and advertising in a emergent market is, that to wait until the market potential is established is suicide. You have to be in the market gain Market Leadership or at least market share as the market is developing. Branding is about the first step in the process, so now is actually the time when companies need to be thinking about sorting out their domain space!

Best Regards

[alia]

Dave,

The Taiwan local news has described President Bush's recent visit to Asia as "an effort to retrieve the US's influence over the region". Since the US has been stuck in Iraq for quite some time, while the fast growing China has progressively made its way to a dominating economic/political/military power in Asia, Bush has to do something to prevent the US being repelled from the region. He unusually mentioned the democratic and economic achievements of Taiwan and Korea in Tokyo, but we all knew he would drop the topics after he is acctually landing at China, there are more critical issues concerning the interests of the US between the two powers, and I believe this would be what you called "a much greater underlying problem". I have no intention to argue against that.

I can agree with your argument in most aspects, even including the missle issue. But I have to say you may not aware of the threats we've been dealing with. In the past two decades, Taiwan businessmen have invested over 100 billion dollars in Mainland China, and it is believed that there are currently close to one million Taiwanese working in China, and all these go without any reliable form of legal protection, in fact, the PRC authorities can do anything to those Taiwan citizens and business when they decide it is no more necessary to maintain a civilized manner. If you believe the US is now heavily dependant on the China, I would say the PRC has already got Taiwan's throat.

Well, this is our problem after all, let's not go any further. No need to apologize, what I tried to tell is the situation of Taiwan, and believe me, the threats are very real.

Cheers,
Alia Li

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by alia

Dave,

The Taiwan local news has described President Bush's recent visit to Asia as "an effort to retrieve the US's influence over the region". Since the US has been stuck in Iraq for quite some time, while the fast growing China has progressively made its way to a dominating economic/political/military power in Asia, Bush has to do something to prevent the US being repelled from the region. He unusually mentioned the democratic and economic achievements of Taiwan and Korea in Tokyo, but we all knew he would drop the topics after he is acctually landing at China, there are more critical issues concerning the interests of the US between the two powers, and I believe this would be what you called "a much greater underlying problem". I have no intention to argue against that.

I can agree with your argument in most aspects, even including the missle issue. But I have to say you may not aware of the threats we've been dealing with. In the past two decades, Taiwan businessmen have invested over 100 billion dollars in Mainland China, and it is believed that there are currently close to one million Taiwanese working in China, and all these go without any reliable form of legal protection, in fact, the PRC authorities can do anything to those Taiwan citizens and business when they decide it is no more necessary to maintain a civilized manner. If you believe the US is now heavily dependant on the China, I would say the PRC has already got Taiwan's throat.

Well, this is our problem after all, let's not go any further. No need to apologize, what I tried to tell is the situation of Taiwan, and believe me, the threats are very real.

Cheers,
Alia Li

Thanks for the reply, I think it is important for us to understand the underlying issues. I think the above clearly shows the economic dependance of Taiwan on China, so these are not clear cut issues of military balance. One can only hope that an accommodation can be reached which does not destroy the hard won freedoms that Taiwan currently enjoys.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[alia]

Thank you Dave. Let's hope so. But under the curse of the "One China" policy, I simply can't imagine how an accommodation can be reached, the bottom line is a reunited China while at least 90% of the Taiwanese will never accept that. I guess the military balance between the Taiwan Strait would be the only accommodation, a fragile one.