HALLELUJAH! Finally Some Relief From HORRIBLE Registrars!!

[Duke]

It really is a sad situation that registrants have no voice with them. Since so many registrars have proven to be inept at handling customer issues (and that fact is getting publicized), this is probably a good time to force the issue of lack of registrant access to ICANN. Perhaps we should start a separate thread with this issue in the subject line so we can get as much input as possible. Would drafting a proposed registrant's bill of rights make sense? That would put it ina form that would be easy to understand, publicize and call for implementation of. As a relative newcomer to the field I would defer to the guys who have been around longer regarding what should go into something like that (or any other approach that might be more effective).

[mole]

Since so many registrars have proven to be inept at handling customer issues (and that fact is getting publicized), this is probably a good time to force the issue of lack of registrant access to ICANN.

I think the sad fact why customer support is suffering is because some registrars charge so low for reg fee that they can't afford to have human support without losing money.

[actnow]

I think the sad fact why customer support is suffering is because some registrars charge so low for reg fee that they can't afford to have human support without losing money.

That was the same argument that the department stores use to say about
the catalog houses and the warehouse clubs.

The catalog houses diappeared. And, the warehouse clubs are one of the fastest
growing segment of the retail industry.

The warehouse clubs figured out how to streamline the supply chain so they
could give their customers the best price for a quality product. Plus, they are
give their customers good (to excellent) customer service

Also, I think part of the problem is that Verisign gets $ 6.00 per new or renewed
name. And, we can not figure out why.

[nas7782]

GD has one of the lowest fees out there, and their phone/e-mail support IMO is very fast. On the other hand, I have one domain on TotalNic, an "accredited registrar" that charges $20/each reg. domain and their email support reads like an old cranky lady being disturbed. They look at new customer with suspicion and treated them like the plague.

I'm not even bother to transfer this single domain out until Icann deals with them. Requiring fax, phone, and run around spin isn't worth it.

[mole]

Domain names have always been a means to an end for GD. They charge you $8 for the domain, AND then try to you sell you the lamborghini and country villa in rapid succession. I think the reaons why their phone support is "very fast" is probably because they run it out of India with telemarketers mimicking American accents just waiting for you to call and upsell you to other services.

[David G]

Domain names have always been a means to an end for GD. They charge you $8 for the domain, AND then try to you sell you the lamborghini and country villa in rapid succession. I think the reaons why their phone support is "very fast" is probably because they run it out of India with telemarketers mimicking American accents just waiting for you to call and upsell you to other services.

Yes, they sell loads of other high profit products, that is called smart upsell marketing, similar to a store running a no profit sale to get you in the door. My only issue is that it takes a little time to navigate thru the misc product screens.

BTW, I am near their location and it's a lot closer to Mexico than India.

[DaddyHalbucks]

JB wrote:

Do you realize that among the bazillion blooming dispute resolution policies spawned by ICANN, there is not a SINGLE one in which a registrant is given an opportunity to file a complaint about anything? It is sickening.

"HELLO. WE ARE FROM THE GOVERNMENT. WE ARE HERE TO HELP.."

My biggest concern with the transfer policy, though, is that the same registrars who don't understand or follow other policies are apt to turn this one into a field day for domain hi-jackers.

YES, IF DOMAINS ARE SET TO TRANSFER AFTER 5 DAYS AS THE DEFAULT, ICANN WILL BE OPENING UP A HUGE CAN OF WORMS.

[jberryhill]

So, Duke, have you noodled out how to actually use this policy yet?

For example, who is the "accredited dispute resolution provider", and what is the fee?

[Dave Zan]

So, Duke, have you noodled out how to actually use this policy yet?

For example, who is the "accredited dispute resolution provider", and what is the fee?

Hi John! Finally able to join in!

You know how complex dealing with trademark disputes are.
What more for people disputing actual ownership of a domain
name.

Duke, one reason why registrants have no voice is because it's
hard to tell who the real registrant or owner of the domain name
is supposed to be. It can't be helped that some people have
their domain names registered by someone else (i.e. webmaster
or an employee) or thru a Hosting provider that registers it in
their name instead of their customer's.

For lack of a better term, registrars consider whoever is listed
as the registrant as the "legal owner" of the domain name no
matter who paid for it. On the registrar side, anyone can pay
for the domain name.

I'll give you an example (and trust me, I've dealt with this and
it's NEVER pretty):

1. You tell your employee to register mememe.com.

2. Your employee registers it under his name & paid via his cc.

3. Your employee redirects the domain to the intended website
per your instructions & you subsequently reimburse him.

4. Months later, you 2 have a falling out & the employee leaves.

5. You go to the registrar's website to access the domain name
& discover, to your horror, that the domain is under your ex-
employee's name.

6. You contact the registrar & ask how to access the domain.
The agent troubleshoots, then politely but firmly tells you that
you'd have to contact the registrant (the ex-employee) since
he's the "legal owner".

While you can claim to the registrar that you reimbursed the
ex-employee, it won't hold water w/ the registrar since the
the registrant/ex-employee can always claim he registered the
domain name for his own use.

You get the drift. And I know it's VERY ugly.

All in all, it only takes just one person, one total stranger, to
claim ownership of a domain name. And it'll create problems
NOBODY wants to tackle, especially the registrars.

Another ornery problem would be hosting providers who offer
domain registrations for a very low cost or even free as part
of a hosting package. What people fail to do is read the fine
print w/c might indicate that the domain will be registered
under the provider's name instead of their customer's.

Unfortunately it's still a problem w/c has little resolution 'coz
the issue is very complex to begin with, especially w/
the circumstances surrounding how the domain name was
registered in the 1st place.

I actually have one solution in mind, though I'll take it up w/
JBerryhill first because it has legal implications.

Currently one way to possibly resolve the registrant ownership
issue is to inform and educate the general public as to how
this works. We'd have to network with as many people who DO
show a genuine desire to inform people about how the system
currently works & gather enough strength to finally force the
issues thru & truly come up w/ honest, logical solutions.

One way to network, of course, is via the forums themselves...

John, is this what you mean:

"The Dispute Resolution Provider must be an independent and neutral third party that is neither associated nor affiliated with either Registrar involved in the dispute or the Registry Operator under which the disputed domain name is registered. ICANN shall have the authority to accredit one or more independent and neutral Dispute Resolution Providers according to criteria developed in accordance with this Dispute Resolution Policy."

I'll see if I can get some specific answers to that as well. But
from what I read there, it sounds like it's a 2 to 3 level dispute
resolution process depending on their respective results.

The first level involves the Registry of the domain extension in
question. What puzzles me is who will be the neutral party in
case the complaining registrar decided to take it to the next
level.

To make it worse, if it's still not resolved to everyone's fair &
mutual benefit, they finally have the option to take it to court.

Is this supposed to make things easier or actually complicated,
I wonder...

[StockDoctor]

Ownership disputes are just one area here that domainers suffer with. Who came up with the term "credential" for these rogue registrars churned out by Pool et al anyway?

I was waiting for Duke to mention the DOC as possibly the right contact (he did) for voicing our (Domainers) concerns. We are the consumers afterall. We best represent the public's interests, and the registry or their "accredited" registrars are really just there to serve our interests. We need to come up with the right contact at the DOC who will address our concerns and then that contact should pass those concerns down (not up) to ICANN. The Domainers Bill of Rights is also a great idea.
Doc

[Dave Zan]

Ownership disputes are just one area here that domainers suffer with. Who came up with the term "credential" for these rogue registrars churned out by Pool et al anyway?

I was waiting for Duke to mention the DOC as possibly the right contact (he did) for voicing our (Domainers) concerns. We are the consumers afterall. We best represent the public's interests, and the registry or their "accredited" registrars are really just there to serve our interests. We need to come up with the right contact at the DOC who will address our concerns and then that contact should pass those concerns down (not up) to ICANN. The Domainers Bill of Rights is also a great idea.
Doc

Going by that (sorry, can't help using that phrase), we need to
thresh out the actual ownership issues itself, especially with the
level of difficulty encountered in determining who is supposed
to be the actual owner of the domain name.

Until lines are drawn defining this, we need to educate everyone
on this sensitive matter. Again, networking will play a crucial role
in this.

But yeah, the DoC will be a good place to start. But it's best to
tackle it when they see a unified front.

[FineE]

Do you realize that among the bazillion blooming dispute resolution policies spawned by ICANN, there is not a SINGLE one in which a registrant is given an opportunity to file a complaint about anything? It is sickening.

I agree this is a serious problem; however if the reigstrant has TM rights the UDRP is an option. The following case is really interesting

http://www.arb-forum.com/domains/decisions/115688.htm

The "cybersquatter" in this case is Featureprice, a Hosting company with horrid customer support. A search on google for "Featureprice" will provide lots of information on this hosting company from many independant sources

[Duke]

So, Duke, have you noodled out how to actually use this policy yet?

For example, who is the "accredited dispute resolution provider", and what is the fee?

No, I have to admit I haven't had time to get back to this issue, though it is certainly as important as anything out there. I am glad to see some of the new input above as the disputes I have had over registration problems have been minor compared to what a lot of you have gone through (mine have primarily been simple non-performance by the registrars in delivering access to domains paid for). I would need to rely on others and especially John to help lay out all that is wrong in the current system and the changes registrants need to be given a fair shake. I think my role would then be to write all of this up, post an article and continually beat the drums with the hope we could get some relief. I'm also wondering if there is any basis in consumer law to demand specific rights as the ultimate consumers of the registry's products? I'm certainly open to all ideas as again I will defer to the more experienced members to help formulate what should go into this.