Idn's to break up internet?

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by nameslave

I too doubt the Koreans would think of themselves as Hans. For centuries, the Chinese empire had been more like a bully to them.

Yes thinking back the remarks were probably made in the context of their even more difficult relationship with the Japanese.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

Originally Posted by Sarcle

This is a collective effort on all of these major companies, but not limited to:
Icann
Microsoft
Yahoo
Google
Firefox
Local Governments.

Basically, It's happening. Whether people want to believe it or not.

Yes, but it could also really do with support from those in the Web Development and SEO sector, who would stand to make a lot of money from this if they can get their act together. But first their mind need to be open.

It will happen, but it would happen a lot quicker if more people seize the opportunities that are available. Having said that I have noted much more interest in the last few weeks. I would even go as far as to say that there is now a secondary market developing in Asian IDN, even if it is mainly focused on city names.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[touchring]

Originally Posted by nameslave

I too doubt the Koreans would think of themselves as Hans. For centuries, the Chinese empire had been more like a bully to them.

As for Pinyin, it's something EVERYBODY learns since elementary school in the past 50 years, so basically every Chinese (except those in Taiwan and Hong Kong) can read and kind of write in Pinyin Chinese. And even though it is rarely used for full text writing, you can see signs and banners written in Pinyin almost everywhere. So while IDN may be better received, Pinyin will still be here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future.

EDIT: Hmm ... when did I uncheck the "Show your signature" option?

This Korean thing is complex. There's a lot of migration from northern chinese provinces to korea and vice versa thousands of years ago, so there's lots of mixing.

The IDN is time game, most people are adopting a look and see attitude.

Meanwhile, I just did a quick random check on chinese websites with Alexa <1000, and surprisingly, some didn't register their website names in chinese, .com or .cn, although the majority did.

Most are using pinyin, or pinyin initials, e.g. py.cn, or modified pinyin (because the pinyin is takened by someone else).

[Sarcle]

The IDN is time game, most people are adopting a look and see attitude.

But I think this is kind of the point why this news is so vital to domainers now. Wait and get nothing. Act, and there are still some choice names left.

I really only see one difference between the option for idn's now and buying domains in the 90's. English<-->Foreign.

As far as the trademarks are concerned they are protected and those companies will receive their names back when it comes to that.

Idn's are already selling for X,XXX.

On another note.
Microsoft announced the release of IE 7 in the first quarter next year.
New's Link

Seems they maybe closer than we think.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by touchring

Most are using pinyin, or pinyin initials, e.g. py.cn, or modified pinyin (because the pinyin is takened by someone else).

Yes, this is because IDN is still very new. Many languages have only just got standardised into Unicode, and indexing for search has happened in the last few months. Conversion of Punycode to local characters for ranking is a very recent development. Hell, I can remember when Chinese characters were represented in Bit Maps, and that can't be 2 years ago! Many site are in Pinyin because they haven't been updated.

Some will have IDNs perhaps some redirected, but yes you are correct most are still using Acronyms or just short numberical combinations. This is because that was what has been available until recently and because without browser support moving over would be pointless.

IE 7.0 will change everything. The trickle of traffic that we are getting will soon become a torrent. Once that is seen to be happening there will be a lot of rebranding of Websites going on, not only in China but also Japan and Russia. The Arabic and South Asian markets will grow up knowing not much else but IDN.

There are those that look back on the original dot com landrush with remorse, those that look back on this one will have but themselves to blame.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

Originally Posted by Sarcle

Idn's are already selling for X,XXX.

Yes, and I wonder who has been selling those? Mind you I won't be selling the same quality at that price again!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[Sarcle]

Südtirol.info at €8,750 ($10,308) Listed from Dnjournal. Sold this week. Congrats to the seller.

Commanding this price for an info too, truly great news. And just imagine IDN's are in the infancy stages yet.

[Rubber Duck]

Thats amazing, it would seem that in this case at least Latin IDN are fetching the same as their ASCII equivalent. That is exceeding even my wildest expectations!!!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[rawkinrich]

Originally Posted by Sarcle

The issue of phishing on idn's is nothing more than a ploy to try to derail idn's or at the very least stall them even more. I will point out that I tried to register an idn the other day that is totally ambigious. Just to see if it's still possible. The domain is хxx.com Just looking at it you would not be able to tell the difference. The fact is the first two letters are "Cryllic' and the last is latin character. It's shows available yet you can't register it.

So again more takes on this issue please, but back them up with some sort of reference please.

I am all for the IDN for multilingual countries, they can benefit a whole lot. On the phishing aspect, right after a post at DNF about phishing, I tried to register xn--hsting-wxa.com (hösting.com) and it was registered without any problems.

Phishing or scam websites will be the only downflaw of the IDN.

[Olney]

It's like if they knew about SPAM they'd prohibit the use of email.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by Olney

It's like if they knew about SPAM they'd prohibit the use of email.

Yes, the latest argument that I came across is that IDN would baffle the law enforcement agencies! That figures, it probably wouldn't take much.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[Sarcle]

Originally Posted by rawkinrich

I am all for the IDN for multilingual countries, they can benefit a whole lot. On the phishing aspect, right after a post at DNF about phishing, I tried to register xn--hsting-wxa.com (hösting.com) and it was registered without any problems.

Phishing or scam websites will be the only downflaw of the IDN.

First a few things that I see.

Phishing can not be stopped. PERIOD. It can be curtailed and clamped down on. But where ever there is a chance to make money, there will be scams. And that is true with regular domains where all of the phishing exists right now. So we should just stop domains in general?

Idn's are already available and have been for several years, this should be on a higher scale than it is now. Oh that's right, it is, just in english domains.

For example: Just because I own hosting.com doesn't mean I have to be a good person. I can still steal money using that name. Set up a whois-guard move out of the us, and set up a huge scam, send it out to every e-mail address, and be set for life.

Another example is:
Someone registered domain.org.uk.
I register domain.org. Very similar and confusing to some at first glance. I can use this domain to go out and wreak havok, yet I hear no "up in arms" people trying to get rid of .org.uk

[Rubber Duck]

As I previously stated elsewhere, I am convinced that the main Phishing risk is to browser and email users in the Far East. The west has now been largely protected by the limitations on the mixtures of scripts that can be registered, and will be even better protected by the security measures being incorporated into IE 7.0.

I believe that most serious problems would arise in the Far East in the absence of IDN, due to Phishing scams in Latin Transliterations of Asian Languages. Transliterations are notoriously problematic with totally unambigious local characters being represented by a whole variety of romanic representations. These are likely to be very confusing for local users and the opportunity for scams is obvious to anyone who gives the matter any informed consideration.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[Chaiki]

Re:

"Balkanisation refers to the breakup of Yugoslavia into many little Fifedoms, which could have parallels to the future development of the Internet if the there is not more Leadership shown in rolling out the benefits to the rest of the Globe."

The defacto currency in that region is still the US dollar or the Euro.. Think of .com as the settlement currency. And the poster is correct IMO: IDNS will never take off so long as .COM is the ENGLISH extension. You would need .IDN and then you limit the largest consumer economies in the word from visiting your site -- CANADA, USA, ENGLAND, IRELAND, SCOTLAND, AUSTRALIA and INDIA all use ENGLISH as a language. Do you really want to limit yourself to your fiefdom. Who here has been to CHina or Japan recently. ENGLISH is everywhere.. on billboards, on posters in the media. ENGLISH is here to stay.. (and it is my second language)

Lastly, I think none of this will have ANY impact on traffic to names in the .COM space. REASON: People type IDN's on their keyboards now and get error pages or a google redirect, search 'utility' from a download, or download adware page when the error tries to resolve. The BIG losers if (or when) IDNS come-to-be are those who will loose the traffic they are getting for free now. Error page hijacks, Google, MSN, Foreign ISPs who have taken the error traffic. The browser traffic they are getting for free now, will disapear, much like a DAM further up the river when the traffic starts resolving to IDNS owned by you and I.

[Rubber Duck]

Well the Japanese Overture stats show this to be nonsense. Over 90% of search in Japan is done in Japanese. Type-in is not because there is no browser support, but it seems logical that it will follow. Even if it doesn't the importance of seach ranking will force change-over to IDN.

If you use IDN for the purposes of marketing to Japan frankly you will not give a monkeys what is happening in much of the rest of the world. OK, you may pick up a bit of expatriate traffic, but that is not the point. The point is that you would be be marketing to the world's second largest economy in the most effective way possilbe. The potential rewards are self evident and not dependant on acceptance by Westerners. All that is required for this to start working is IE 7.0 and to a lesser extent the implementation of IDN.IDN.

The potential for China is far greater, and if you think India is a homogenous English speaking country then frankly you are barking mad!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

[ctc]

WOW you guys talk too much

[Netego]

Originally Posted by ctc

WOW you guys talk too much

But they are right! I guess IDN will rule most part of the world.

[Olney]

I'm currently residing in Tokyo. Have been a resident of Japan for almost 10 years. Currently making a good living in Japan solely on internet marketing, online media, & consulting. I'm bilingual with Japanese my second language & have been following new developments in the IDN market for the past few months.

At first I too doubted the IDN market till I did my research. Japanese that can speak English are not the target for IDN domain marketters it's the average Japanese user that if you are Japanese you can imagine how easy it is to remember a native Japanese domain name.

We have stats on it. There are some Japanese dot coms that promote their site with native kanji characters & Japanese people are trying to type this in to the browsers. Like kurumaerabi.com I own the IDN & even with just data from mac users using safari (Firefox use in Japan is extremely low) there are typeins every day way more than my other IDNs & it's consistant.

It is not going to be an instant transition but people like me, Dave & a few others are heavily contributing to provide data before it takes off in Asia & the Western world just won't understand why.

Originally Posted by Chaiki

Re:
The defacto currency in that region is still the US dollar or the Euro.. Think of .com as the settlement currency. And the poster is correct IMO: IDNS will never take off so long as .COM is the ENGLISH extension. You would need .IDN and then you limit the largest consumer economies in the word from visiting your site -- CANADA, USA, ENGLAND, IRELAND, SCOTLAND, AUSTRALIA and INDIA all use ENGLISH as a language. Do you really want to limit yourself to your fiefdom. Who here has been to CHina or Japan recently. ENGLISH is everywhere.. on billboards, on posters in the media. ENGLISH is here to stay.. (and it is my second language)

Lastly, I think none of this will have ANY impact on traffic to names in the .COM space. REASON: People type IDN's on their keyboards now and get error pages or a google redirect, search 'utility' from a download, or download adware page when the error tries to resolve. The BIG losers if (or when) IDNS come-to-be are those who will loose the traffic they are getting for free now. Error page hijacks, Google, MSN, Foreign ISPs who have taken the error traffic. The browser traffic they are getting for free now, will disapear, much like a DAM further up the river when the traffic starts resolving to IDNS owned by you and I.

[touchring]

Originally Posted by Chaiki

Re:

"Balkanisation refers to the breakup of Yugoslavia into many little Fifedoms, which could have parallels to the future development of the Internet if the there is not more Leadership shown in rolling out the benefits to the rest of the Globe."

The defacto currency in that region is still the US dollar or the Euro.. Think of .com as the settlement currency. And the poster is correct IMO: IDNS will never take off so long as .COM is the ENGLISH extension. You would need .IDN and then you limit the largest consumer economies in the word from visiting your site -- CANADA, USA, ENGLAND, IRELAND, SCOTLAND, AUSTRALIA and INDIA all use ENGLISH as a language. Do you really want to limit yourself to your fiefdom. Who here has been to CHina or Japan recently. ENGLISH is everywhere.. on billboards, on posters in the media. ENGLISH is here to stay.. (and it is my second language)

Lastly, I think none of this will have ANY impact on traffic to names in the .COM space. REASON: People type IDN's on their keyboards now and get error pages or a google redirect, search 'utility' from a download, or download adware page when the error tries to resolve. The BIG losers if (or when) IDNS come-to-be are those who will loose the traffic they are getting for free now. Error page hijacks, Google, MSN, Foreign ISPs who have taken the error traffic. The browser traffic they are getting for free now, will disapear, much like a DAM further up the river when the traffic starts resolving to IDNS owned by you and I.

There's this concept in marketing known as market segmentation, whereby you create different products/marketing materials for different markets. For the case of the Internet, IDNs can be used to brand country websites in their native language.

Coca Cola does this, Toyota does this. Coca Cola isn't called Coca Cola in many countries. There had to be at least 50 different native names for Coca Cola.

I was in China 2 year's ago, and i met a science masters graduate in his late 30s from one of China's and the world's most prestigious university - Shanghai Qinghua University. We were then discussing cars, and he said he got a FengTian 2litre.

I was trying to guess what a FengTian was, and we ran through a list of car brands in English, and after 5 minutes of questioning, I managed to figure out with 90% certainty that it is a Toyota Camri. The word Toyota is printed at the back and front, and dashboard of his car, and he didn't know it is called a Toyota. And of course, i didn't know it's called a FengTian because the word doesn't sound one bit like Toyota.

Common sense always work on the Internet. Just like how Google managed to beat Yahoo so easily in just 3 years, despite being 5 years late - just because it is simpler to use.

[Olney]

Ask the common Japanese person:
Where's the AV section?
Do you have a Microwave?
Do you want to go to the health club with me?

(If Edwin reads this at least I know someone will have a chuckle)

[none]

Originally Posted by touchring

There's this concept in marketing known as market segmentation, whereby you create different products/marketing materials for different markets. For the case of the Internet, IDNs can be used to brand country websites in their native language.

Coca Cola does this, Toyota does this. Coca Cola isn't called Coca Cola in many countries. There had to be at least 50 different native names for Coca Cola.

I was in China 2 year's ago, and i met a science masters graduate in his late 30s from one of China's and the world's most prestigious university - Shanghai Qinghua University. We were then discussing cars, and he said he got a FengTian 2litre.

I was trying to guess what a FengTian was, and we ran through a list of car brands in English, and after 5 minutes of questioning, I managed to figure out with 90% certainty that it is a Toyota Camri. The word Toyota is printed at the back and front, and dashboard of his car, and he didn't know it is called a Toyota. And of course, i didn't know it's called a FengTian because the word doesn't sound one bit like Toyota.

LOL, good story touchring... I have a friend named 'Brad' who worked with me in Hong Kong. The locals called him 'mien bao'. Why? Because they thought we were calling him 'Bread' and 'mien bao' == bread in cantonese.

I'm glad there is healthy debate and skepticism over the future of IDN. If there wasn't I would be very, very worried.