LH.com lost due to reverse hijacking

[Leading Names]

That's truly excellent news for any two letter domain registrant. Congrats Ele.

- Rob

[PRED]

great news if this is true?
congrats elequa, and thanks for fighting the battle and winning, important for us all

[britishbulldog]

I once had a domain which was generic but a TM in the U.S baring in mind i am from the U.K and you cannot have a generic TM relating to the same industry as a domain i.e fastcars.com could be a TM in the U.S but not in the EU or U.K.

Anyhow the story was this company was sold on but without the domain which was dropped in which case i picked it up,i tried to apply fro a TM in the U.K but due to it being generic it was turned down and even though i was based in the U.K i till lost the case via WIPO,i could of stopped the transfer by simply getting a court injunction which i presume thats what's happened here ?

I do believe that individuals in other countries making judgments on the complainants law rather than the defendants in a tragic error of misjudgment by WIPO UDRP etc.......

[Leading Names]

I once had a domain which was generic but a TM in the U.S baring in mind i am from the U.K and you cannot have a generic TM relating to the same industry as a domain i.e fastcars.com could be a TM in the U.S but not in the EU or U.K.

Anyhow the story was this company was sold on but without the domain which was dropped in which case i picked it up,i tried to apply fro a TM in the U.K but due to it being generic it was turned down and even though i was based in the U.K i till lost the case via WIPO,i could of stopped the transfer by simply getting a court injunction which i presume thats what's happened here ?

I do believe that individuals in other countries making judgments on the complainants law rather than the defendants in a tragic error of misjudgment by WIPO UDRP etc.......

Couldn't agree more. The current UDRP is a joke. The LH.com case is yet another example of why.

- Rob

[DTalk]

Great news....!!

But, does anyone know if this means that the name has been returned to FMA pending an upcoming court case?....Or, if the court case has happened, and FMA won it?

.

[SIKHboy]

lh.com now sorts out to oxide.com which is owned by fma.

So I think they won it fully.

[Acquisition]

This is great. Screw Lufthansa and where they came from trying to steal this domain. I hope that airline dies a slow painful death and ends up bankrupt like many of their brothers before them...

Congrats Elequa on winning this thing. Well deserved brother .

[denny007]

I believe Luftwafe offered Elequa huge sum for the domain first, but as he never sells - even if they would offer him 100 millions he would not sell - so they tried their luck. It is not illegal to attempt to steal via UDRP. Also the UDRP panelists obviously can be bought cheap - I guess this one might got something $20K to his pocket to make this decision. They were simply desperate because they need something and can not have it while the one who has hit keeps it just for kicks.

[MAllie]

he never sells - even if they would offer him 100 millions he would not sell

I'm curious about domainers who never sell. Are these like art collectors rather than art dealers? Presumably they are able to make some money out of the domain names without ever selling them on, though I find it hard to see who would just put something like 'lh' into an address bar - unless it's someone who just likes to see what these names lead to.

This, in case you're wondering, is a perfectly serious question. There is much about the domaining world and the mind-set of domainers that intrigues and puzzles me.

[denny007]

I'm curious about domainers who never sell. Are these like art collectors rather than art dealers?

I think this Elequa character get his kicks from that people are wondering, also might make him feel good that people want something he has. He is from that area where they have harems with beautiful women and they do not touch them, they just get kicks from the fact they have 1,000 beauties at disposal if they really wanted. Or is like someone would be throwing millions out of window, also for the fun from it.

[copper]

Good news for FMA and many domainers.

[PRED]

so what actually happened in the end?

i see lh.com redirects to bloody lufthansa

did lufthansa lose at wipo then go to court?

have a few questions always wondered. if they lost at wipo and had reverse hijacking made against them, could they still take it to court? and did they have to take to court in the US? or Germany? or where both businesses are mutually placed
never understood this bit

i'm assuming elqua fought in court?

[katherine]

I seem to remember there has been an out of court settlement. I hope lh paid Elequa a huge premium for the emotional stress involved

[britishbulldog]

The problem is being a domainer is viewed as bad faith. That has to change.

Yes it has ruled against me before being a domainer it seems to be considered bad faith buying and selling domains,i believe ICANN should stop this now but of course they are just as corrupt as WIPO and UDRP,**** them all.

[500,000]

...

[freeconnect2000]

Type in LH.com at your browser and the following site comes up:

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/port...om/de/homepage

[DTalk]

My understanding of this is that Lufthansa originally tried to buy LH.com from FMA (elequa).....FMA refused to sell.....Lufthansa slapped a UDRP on FMA for the name, and won....FMA sued Lufthansa over the name, and issued an injunction through the courts, to prevent transfer of the name, pending the court case.....So, the domain remained with FMA for awhile.....Now, LH.com forwards to Lufthansa's site...

So, it appears Lufthansa now have the name...

Question is, did elequa/Lufthansa do a deal re the name to settle out of court?....Or, did Lufthansa win in court?




From reading this thread, it may be that FMA (elequa) made some mistakes re this name that left it vulnerable to a charge of 'Use in Bad Faith' - and, therefore, vulnerable to losing the domain in a UDRP (or a court) on these grounds:


- Parked the domain, LH.com: - Links could have appeared on the LH.com parked page - over time - that were in fields competitive to Lufthansa's TM & business (ie Airline/Travel-related links).....In short, a bad faith use of the domain.

- Sole-Use Profiteering: - If a TM holder - with a TM on a term that is identical to your domain's letters - approaches the domain owner with a view to negotiating a bona fide purchase of the domain - and, then, the owner of the domain implies he would require millions of dollars for it (as apparently FMA did) - a UDRP panel may well take the view that the domain owner's interest in the domain is solely as a speculator seeking 'excessive' profits, with no other valid 'good faith' claims/uses for the TM-term domain.....The panel may well conclude that the domain owner holds the TM domain in Bad Faith - especially if the domain owner is not otherwise constructively using the name.

It makes sense for a reverse hijacker to invest $1500 in a UDRP to run this argument to find out if they can get the name that way....That's a risk for a domain owner.


(Whilst you and I see nothing wrong with trading domains for a profit - 'excessive', or otherwise - others may see it differently - and, make a strong case that such an activity amounts to 'Bad Faith' use of a TM domain, especially if the owner is not constructively using the domain...).


...ie domain owners need to be smart & careful about how they handle (apparently) innocent queries re buying a valuable name with a TM on it).


The lesson from this case is to be very careful with LL & LLL.com's....DON'T park them - either build a bona fide site/business for them, in a non-competing business from the TM holder.....Or, at least forward them to a manifestly non-TM contravening site that demonstrates unarguably 'good faith' use of the domain (eg a non-commercial arts site, or something....lol).

.