Wall Street Journal - "Web Alphabet Set To Change."

[dominator]

where can you register these idn.idn and more importantly..how do you with an english keyboard?

nowhere, just read the news (seoul icann)
(in case .com will be aliased, then you can register them since 2001)

you need to enable the characters (for some languages, like chinese) in windows first

for most of languages, you can just add the keyboard in windows control panel

for chinese, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese..._for_computers

[Rubber Duck]

For idn.idn, I heard the extension will spell out ".com" or ".net" in the foreign script, so if for example, the actual domain name means "apple" in the foreign language with a ".com" extension, will the page redirect to the English apple.com? Or will there now be plenty of apple.com's in many languages? What if they spell out the word "apple" (which probably means nothing in the native language), will that redirect them to apple.com?

No Apple will not be entitled to everything that conveys the image of a piece of fruit. If they did not own Apple.com, they would not be entitled to it because it is generic. They are of course entitled to anything they have Trademarked either explicitly or sometime in implicitly (but not generally in the Far East). But to my knowledge they have always called themselves Apple in Latin script. The Costello Twins think they should be entitled to anything that means Bullion in any language. They are simply making themselves look idiots. They may, however, end up getting the Top Level aliased in whole load of languages whether they want it or not. They will probably get a whole load of ASCII.IDN, and end up paying a premium for the priveledge as Verisign DNAMEs everything at the Top Level and then uses it a an excuse to hike it fees once more.

[peter]

Is anobody getting scared off from investing in .com's?

[bwhhisc]

where can you register these idn.idn and more importantly..how do you with an english keyboard?

IDN.IDN is in the works, the announcement by ICANN is to allow foreign languages "after the dot". That effects the million plus aready registered IDNs. Most will happen with already registered with English extensions like .cn, .jp, .com, .net etc that will alias to .idn(com), .jp(idn jp) etc. There will be some new extensions, but most of the .com etc has been registered since 2000' and those have been "waiting" for nearly a decade holding the names and paying renewals fees for (1) browser support IE7 supplied that (2) idn.idn aliasing to full internationalization.

Regarding registration, 99% of people that don't speak the languages "cut and paste" from the various translators. Its really pretty simple.
You can use registrars that support IDNs like dynadot, moniker, name.com, 101domain.com etc.

A good translator is www.google.com/translate. Put in the English word, then choose a language. Best to cross reference with 2-3 dictionaries, check the word on google using "quotation" marks to see if it stands alone and if relevant photos. Then, where possible verify with native speakers, many found here and other forums that are helpful. Really not that hard once you get the hang of it.... lots of free dictionaries and resources at idntools.com.

Tip: you can still buy some good lists of available .com and .cctlds at some of the various idnforums...just ask around by pm quietly.

Is anobody getting scared off from investing in .com's?

IDNs are .com, and also .jp, .cn, .net, .biz, .ws, .tv, etc etc and soon .mobi

[peter]

how are they .com's if the idn characters can be after the dot?

[dominator]

aliased

[bwhhisc]

how are they .com's if the idn characters can be after the dot?

Best example to visualize is Russian.
The Russian word that best fits for .com is коммерческий

The aliased extension would be .ком

Over the past 5+ years there have been numerous agreement between the various organizations and companies ie. ICANN, GAC, GNSO, Verisign to ensure that existing gtlds, and cctlds will have the right to translations and transliterals of their extensions.

They also have agreements about "launch" times for aliasing idn.idn, to insure that neither gtlds nor cctlds would create any disadvantage to the other, as well as agreements to protect their existing extensions and ensure their rights over any 3rd party to any new extension that might be "confusingly similar" to an existing...meaning in this case Verisign would have first rights to .ком.

There is a possiblity that .com owners would have BOTH idn.com and idn.ком, so either could be typed in by users to get to the same website, hense the term "alias" you probably see a lot of recently. The better idn.com names have been registered, held and renewed since 2000', and cctlds since 2003 but IMO still a lot of opportunities out there.

[memmst]

There is a possiblity that .com owners would have BOTH idn.com and idn.ком, so either could be typed in by users to get to the same website, hense the term "alias" you probably see a lot of recently.

Based on all the various documents from the multiple working groups it is a certainty and not a possibility.

пример.com registrant gets пример.ком
דוגמא.com registrant gets דוגמא.קום
etc.

[bwhhisc]

Based on all the various documents from the multiple working groups it is a certainty and not a possibility.

пример.com registrant gets пример.ком

Do you think you get пример.com AND пример.ком as one registration?
It works that way with .cn where you get all Chinese variants paying ONE registration... but that is CCNIC not Verisign.
So the question I do not think has been cleared up is whether Verisign will "try" to charge seperately for both?
And if they do...and you don't choose to pay for BOTH, can they sell the "other" on the open market?

[dominator]

Do you think you get пример.com AND пример.ком as one registration?

that is the definition of alias(ing)

So the question I do not think has been cleared up is whether Verisign will "try" to charge seperately for both?

then it would not be aliased, but a completely new tld

[bwhhisc]

that is the definition of alias(ing)
then it would not be aliased, but a completely new tld

This has been the "million dollar" question...nothing firm from Verisign but your point well taken. Whether they will try to charge extra has been debated quite a lot the last year, if so they will no doubt be in for a legal wrangle.

The challenge as i see it is that ICANN has poked holes in Verisigns plan for "DNAME" aliasing which would have provided this at no cost. From my reading ICANN technical reports over the last year, they have indicated DNAME will not work for 100% for all IDN needs. There have been no "better" solutions for aliasing that I am aware of other than some speculation that the best solution for aliasing might be to implement at the registrar level.

Here was an interesting thought on a solution for aliasing put out at one of the IDN Forums a while back.

"Verisign is awarded and delegated new namespaces for tens of extensions which equal dot com in various languages, and they create empty zonefiles in their DNS for all the new namespaces. Verisign extends the registrar API (small modification to the registrar's interface to the registry) so that a domain owner can choose the aliases he wants (in this speculation....paying Verisign a small fee for the extra name). Once registered, the command is sent to the registry to add NS records to each of the zone files. Unbelievably simple, this is aliasing from within Verisign".

Which raises the question....if they went this route can/ will Verisign let anybody else buy the aliases if the dot com owner doesn't want them.

[stbmax]

I would expect that Verisign should be giving the aliased .com equivalents to the present .com holders, free of charge...as is the precident set with .cn/.hk
If they charge at all, it should be a nominal fee to cover administration, say .25-50 cents/name, which could be charged at time of renewal.
Going forward, they already stand to earn large, from the millions of extra .coms added to the registry.

[Gerry]

I would expect that Verisign should be giving the aliased .com equivalents to the present .com holders, free of charge...as is the precident set with .cn/.hk

This was also done with .es and .mx - preference given to the holders of .es who had the plain version of n vs. ñ and .mx to holders of .com.mx

[Explorer]

This was also done with .es and .mx - preference given to the holders of .es who had the plain version of n vs. ñ and .mx to holders of .com.mx

Good point.

[Rubber Duck]

"Verisign is awarded and delegated new namespaces for tens of extensions which equal dot com in various languages, and they create empty zonefiles in their DNS for all the new namespaces. Verisign extends the registrar API (small modification to the registrar's interface to the registry) so that a domain owner can choose the aliases he wants (in this speculation....paying Verisign a small fee for the extra name). Once registered, the command is sent to the registry to add NS records to each of the zone files. Unbelievably simple, this is aliasing from within Verisign".

Which raises the question....if they went this route can/ will Verisign let anybody else buy the aliases if the dot com owner doesn't want them.

ICANN won't allow this. Apart from causing confusion which they will not allow it will have serve implications for stability. Such issues would take another decade to resolve. If it is going to happen at all then it will be DNAMES within the Registry. Versign will not be able to decide which names get the aliases and which will not, but they probably will go back to ICANN for an across the board increase, which may well affect everyone including English.commers as it will be difficult to determine which language domains are in.

[peter]

but i still have a hard time understanding exactly how this will affect the values of the well established tlds (let's say the big 3: com net org for the sake of discussion)

I would like to hear your takes on that

[Rubber Duck]

but i still have a hard time understanding exactly how this will affect the values of the well established tlds (let's say the big 3: com net org for the sake of discussion)

I would like to hear your takes on that

It should have no impact at all. The generally Chinese (or indeed most of the rest of the affected language groups) wouldn't ever have surfed the Internet in English, and this will not change that. However, some very prominent domainers have been expressing the opinion that somehow this was not the case and they have even talked about Global Anchor sites. Of course this has always been nonsense. Communication is by it very nature language specific. Always has been, always will be. If this means that the value of domains has been extrapolated as addressing a global population of 5 Billion rather than some 400 Million English first language speakers, then these valuations will need to be modified to reflect the ongoing market reality. If, however, valuation are base on reality then these change will have no impact.

[dominator]

Which raises the question....if they went this route can/ will Verisign let anybody else buy the aliases if the dot com owner doesn't want them.

i doubt
that would be very stupid

"alias" is by definition the same domain name

but i still have a hard time understanding exactly how this will affect the values of the well established tlds (let's say the big 3: com net org for the sake of discussion)

not much, if idn.idn is aliased to idn.com
because these domains can be registered since 2001

more, if idn.idn is aliased to idn.cc
and especially if idn.cc did not exist (e.g. idn.ru)

[bwhhisc]

If it is going to happen at all then it will be DNAMES within the Registry.

From my reading DNAME testing did not meet all of the criteria for providing the solution to aliasing.

Anyone know the resolution for aliasing since ICANN has already let the Genie out of the bottle.

i doubt that would be very stupid.
"alias" is by definition the same domain name

There is a LOT of money at stake when you multiply hundreds of thousands...heck, make that millions
of new domains. Do not underestimate the power of big corportions that know how to maximize
every dollar of revenue.

[dominator]

There is a LOT of money at stake when you multiply hundreds of thousands...heck, make that millions
of new domains. Do not underestimate the power of big corportions that know how to maximize
every dollar of revenue.

it is either aliased or not (i.e. new tld)