Anybody still in doubt WHY the Allied UN Coalition is acting in Libya - HERE IS WHY!

[Bill Roy]

This has just come through, and for those who even have a single shread of doubt as to WHY the world acted this should be enough to give you an answer!

Link to Sky News report

[ksinclair]

Billbo,

Good info, thanks.

Kevin

[Adam Dicker]

This video is horrifying.

-=DCG=-

[Bill Roy]

Adam in a way I apologise for posting it, it is not something that I would want minors to see, but for those still in denial about Gaddafi and think this is a 'man' who you can talk with this should explain why you cannot, and the world has already tried for 40 years!

Adam thank you for permitting it to be linked to.

[DomainsInc]

it seems some people would rather genocide occour.

[Nathan King]

I was unable to watch the video all the way through as I am on an intermittent 3G connection right now, but those that know agree that the potential for genocide did exist. My problem, however, lies in two areas:

1) The UN gave the US & its allies permission to use any force necessary short of an occupation. The ease at which they were able to get this kind of approval is worrying to me. I would have preferred a more limited resolution focused on how results are going to be achieved.

2) The US has killed thousands of innocent women and children in the Middle East. I find it hard to believe that the same people that are responsible for all this innocent death really give a crap about the Libyan people. We've been eying Libya for a long time...long before the threat of genocide was imminent.

Just remember to stay skeptical of everything you read and hear on the mainstream news. It is best to get the news from all sides, and decide for yourself. A good place to get international news is globalsecurity.org. They aggregate articles from news sources all over the world. The world stage is very different than the western mainstream media would have you believe.

[Gerry]

I had seen some of that same footage on television but not in such great detail and length.

Thanks for posting.

[Bill Roy]

Nathan King I would suggest you try ArabForum.com for news of what is going on in Libya, both sides opinions are openly expressed. Also if you doubt this report in the video above or the print report with it then please explain why? I for one would rather believe the mainstream western press by the way than those who doctor photographs for propaganda purposes as happened during the the last conflist in Lebanon by Hezbulah supporting reporters.

The obvious fact is that this is not an 'American' action at all, something you do not yet seem to grasp, it is a worldwide reaction to a despotic dictator who has threatened basic genocide against his own people and has started carrying it out. It is the world saying this cannot be allowed. Indeed America will be handing over the running of the operations in the next few days, more than likely to NATO and other countries involved. It is this smoke-screen of 'Bad' America that some are trying to shade this with that is repugnant.

If only the world had been so resolute and ready in the case of Rwanda.

The latest I have heard is that even Romania is sending a frigate to take part in the sea blockade to stop arms getting through to Gaddafi (remember there are huge defence contracts with Russia).

[Gerry]

1) The UN gave the US & its allies permission to use any force necessary short of an occupation. The ease at which they were able to get this kind of approval is worrying to me. I would have preferred a more limited resolution focused on how results are going to be achieved.

Perhaps the ease was in line with the ease of violating the no-fly zone and taking the opportunity to call a cease fire with total intent on overtaking and slaughtering the rebels.

I am not for taking the lives of anyone. But what good is it to impose a no fly zone without enforcement. These imaginary lines on monitors showing where the no fly zones are do no exist in real life. As we saw, Ghadafi's jets and helicopters were free to fly at will and bomb anyone or anything they chose.

I am confident that after the total disdain and ignoring of the UN resolution by Ghadafi and his bombardment of civilians and indiscriminate bombing and shelling of cities had much to do with the ease and swiftness to this. It's called urgency.

[Nathan King]

Also if you doubt this report in the video above or the print report with it then please explain why?

Did you even read my post? Seems to me like you shut everything else out as soon as you read something you didn't like. In my first sentence, I said "those that know agree that the potential for genocide did exist."

The obvious fact is that this is not an 'American' action at all something you do not yet seem to grasp

Again, you must have let your bias get the best of you and shut out everything else I wrote. The first problem that I listed was a problem with the UN, not a problem with the United States. I referred to it as US & allies because thus far the United States has dropped a large majority of the bombs in Libya. I know the media has said that the US will be handing over operations to other countries and they will try to report it like that, but I seriously doubt that will be the reality of things.

We (the US) have been eying Libya for a long time. As soon as the opportunity arose, our military immediately positioned itself around Libya. This was over a week before the UN resolution. There's a reason we haven't come to other countries aid and helped to prevent genocide. Libya is special to the US.

I think you are mad that I referred to it as "US and allies," but up to this point that's how it's been.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 PM ----------

It's called urgency.

Yes I can see your point point here. I think there should have been more limitations and stipulations in the UN resolution to help protect civilians (especially considering the US' track record), but yes you have a very valid point there.

[Bill Roy]

2) The US has killed thousands of innocent women and children in the Middle East. I find it hard to believe that the same people that are responsible for all this innocent death really give a crap about the Libyan people. We've been eying Libya for a long time...long before the threat of genocide was imminent.

I did not ignor any of your post, it is the above that clearly defies logic. If you are referring to Iraq/Afghanistan for example may I point out that those responsible were the likes of Bush jnr. and his assorted motley crew. It was not the 'Americans' but the leaders who lied to them and the world, all we can be thankful for is that we do not have the same people in power in the White House today, but rather someone who wishes things to be done properly and within the limits of the law.

Can I also point out that constantly the military are manouvering forces and equipment for likely usage in many possible situations, this is called forward planning by the way, and if it were not done then the response time in many events would be so long that any actual response would be to late or untimely at best. This is what Admirals and Generals are paid to do, be prepared for likely (and unlikely) scenarios so that they may carry out their C-in-C's commands effectively should they be called upon to do so.

This is not an American action, this is a world reaction, the fact that America as the largest militarily powerful nation on Earth has done more than any other is simply because of its capabilities, but the fact is that America has clearly stated that this is not an American action, and it is not.

I do not let my bias influence me in these matters when it counts, and I freely admit I am prejudiced against Gaddafi, I have seen the results of his sponsorship of terrorism first hand. But let me assure you my bias stops as soon as I start analysing a situation, that is also called professionalism. Far from it those that just seem to take aggregated news as the 'real news' do not realise that just because 500 reports say one thing against 50 reports saying something else does not make the 500 reports right, indeed in todays world of self publishing and 'internet news sites' it is easy to manipulate aggregated results to skew the apparent news reporting results.

As I say if you have any problem with the report (video or writen) then please point them out but do not try and denegrate the report on conspiracy theories about the mainstream western press. Argue your points clearly and with evidence directly related to the facts of the matter to hand.

[Nathan King]

I point out that those responsible were the likes of Bush jnr. and his assorted motley crew. It was not the 'Americans' but the leaders who lied to them and the world, all we can be thankful for is that we do not have the same people in power in the White House today

The US government does not represent the people, they represent corporate and special interests. Presidents change, but the corporations and special interests that are influencing the government do not change. This is why America is in a state of perpetual war.

Tell me why the US is still killing people in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Yes, Obama is not Bush (thank god), but every week there are more and more innocent civilians being killed by US drones. It's completely counter productive. Killing innocent people only creates terrorists out of those who had family and friends killed. These innocent deaths are a powerful recruitment tool for the Taliban. We have no plans to get out of there.

EDIT:
You want facts?

Americans' assessment of Congress has hit a new low, with 13% saying they approve of the way Congress is handling its job. The 83% disapproval rating is also the worst Gallup has measured in more than 30 years of tracking congressional job performance.

Source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/145238/co...p-history.aspx

[draggar]

Not to defend Gadaffi but when you have people shooting at each other in a crowd unarmed people will get hurt. Of course the rebels didn't shoot any civilians because the civilians are on their side so even a bullet intended for an armed rebel could miss (or go though) the target and hit a non-combatant.

Now, if there were videos of Libyan troops deliberately shooting at groups of knowingly unarmed and non-threatening civilians, that would be a completely different story.

[BobDiGiTaL]

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group

What is happening in Libya is not genocide. It is random killings. it is closer to a civil war.

This is not an American action, this is a world reaction,

Too bad the world didn't react when the Kurds were enduring their genocide.

[Nathan King]

According to NPR today:

In the last few days, the Americans brought in more firepower for that job — two warplanes specially designed to target Libyan troops hiding among civilians in cities. One is the A-10 Warthog and the other the AC-130 gunship.

Now their talking about arming the rebels...didn't see that one coming </sarcasm>. We used to be more covert about it though.

Also (source):

The administration and NATO have moved beyond the initially stated goal of protecting civilians, says Alan Kuperman, an expert on humanitarian interventions at the University of Texas. Targeting Gadhafi's forces not as they attack rebels but as they retreat, as well as within the capital of Tripoli

And from the same source:

The president has made it quite clear that he doesn't want the U.S. responsible for having to pick up the pieces in Libya, as it was in Iraq after chasing out Saddam Hussein.

"Regime change there took eight years, thousands of American and Iraqi lives and nearly a trillion dollars," Obama said Monday. "That is not something we can afford to repeat in Libya."

[Seraphim]

There is a new vid over at LiveLeak of the glorious freedom loving Libyan rebels hacking the head off of a black African "mercenary". Kill Teams in Afghanistan, racist head hunters in Libya... Thank you Mr. President for spending my tax dollars on making the world a better place.

[whitebark]

Anyone else read the statement by the leader of Chad - a country that is no friend to Libya? He's saying that Qaddafi is telling the truth about the rebels being partially made up of Osama's boys. He says that they carted off anti-aircraft missiles when the warehouses were left open in the East. That of course in no way excuses his behaviour towards his own people though.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/af...a.arms/?hpt=C1

[Seraphim]

Webster Tarpley - Al Qaeda Does US Dirty Work In Libya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AubB...feature=relmfu