Cheney admits to War Crimes and Bush given authority to "massacre" civilians.

[Donald Aquilano]

Um, the source of the information?

That would be Dick Cheney, in an interview, on tv, no lip syncing.

Hello? Anyone need cliff notes? Did anyone read the articles referenced?

Need to google it or you tube the re-broadcast?

Cheney did admit to war crimes.

And admitted to having altered the US law to fit their motives and practice.

That is not my opinion.

But, what does it matter. In the fall of 2005, knowing full well what they did, Bush granted himself and his administration immunity from prosecution.

In other words, he granted himself and his staff a presidential pardon - in advance.

I sometimes think you get opinion mixed up with facts. It is your opinion that Dick Cheney admitted to war crimes. If you are referring to his support for water boarding than I guess you better charge millions of Americans along with him who support it including me. We got a lot of intel from water boarding.

[katherine]

We got a lot of intel from water boarding.

What kind of information did you get by water boarding people ?

[Donald Aquilano]

What kind of information did you get by water boarding people ?

http://townhall.com/columnists/Terry...on_los_angeles

[Gerry]

What kind of information did you get by water boarding people ?

Well, ya...you get a lot of intel from waterboarding.

They'll say anything to stop the torture.

As for those that support it?

Well, good luck with that.

Torture for me begin in January 2001 and ended in January 2009.

And the bastards still did not break me down.

Obviously their "debriefing" and mind control techniques were effective on those millions referred to.

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Invest...ory?id=1322866

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

Even the CIA operatives who underwent this technique themselves lasted only 14 seconds of waterboarding.

Khalid Sheik Mohammed underwent this technique only 2 and a half minutes until he started to confessing - to EVERYTHING and ANYTHING.

This is a good article to read to find out what those who perform the procedures tell about the true value of information obtained.


And I love how I am suddenly being told I am mixing my facts and opinions together. Seems to me that one would have to gather the facts, before hand, and then develop an opinion. Those that don't have the facts have nothing but an opinion that is factless, baseless, and without merit.

[Mike Cruz]

I sometimes think you get opinion mixed up with facts. It is your opinion that Dick Cheney admitted to war crimes. If you are referring to his support for water boarding than I guess you better charge millions of Americans along with him who support it including me. We got a lot of intel from water boarding.

Just quoting this so maybe you will read what you wrote and then realize how hypocritical this post was. Especially the bolded part... lol... If anything that is just speculation, but the facts released have shown we got NOTHING out of these torture techniques.

Think about it... You know you haven't done anything wrong, but for some reason you are captured and then tortured, they are blaming you for all these terrible actions and asking you questions you know nothing about... but if you don't answer them, they continue to torture you for hours, days, weeks, months on end til you "give something up". You are going to say anything you can to get out of that position, admit to whatever they are accusing you of, you can't take the pain, no one can.

Why do they do this without thought? Because these "torturers" want to go back to their superiors and impress them with faulty information that will get them no where except wasting MORE of our tax dollars by setting up some type of mission or operation to no man's land.

Torture is just as retarded as the people thinking Palin would be a great president.

[DomainsInc]

I sometimes think you get opinion mixed up with facts. It is your opinion that Dick Cheney admitted to war crimes. If you are referring to his support for water boarding than I guess you better charge millions of Americans along with him who support it including me. We got a lot of intel from water boarding.

you can get even more by sticking needles under their toenails. if you support 'waterboarding', why stop there?

---------- Post added at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 PM ----------

http://townhall.com/columnists/Terry...on_los_angeles

And was anyone arrested for this so called plot? Anyone could make up anything if they had to. I'll have to look more into it to see if something was really stopped or it was just more BS.

[katherine]

you can get even more by sticking needles under their toenails. if you support 'waterboarding', why stop there?

The thing is, Uncle Sam is not just 'waterboarding' people, and I'm not even talking about torture by proxy (outsourced).
Unfortunately there will always be useful idiots to support those who stoop to the level of terrorists.

[think]

http://townhall.com/columnists/Terry...on_los_angeles

Completely false. I can understand why you believe this story as it was well spun but the facts do not bear it out.

Your editorial from Townhall.com refers to a document from the CIA which made the following claim:

On Tuesday, the CIA confirmed to me that it stands by assertions credited to the agency in this 2005 memo that subjecting KSM (edit note: khalid sheikh mohammed) to "enhanced techniques" of interrogation -- including waterboarding -- caused him to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to stop a planned 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.

However, this cannot be true as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was arrested one whole year after the plot had been broken up and the cell leader was arrested.

The Bush White House's own time line proves the statement is not true:

Bush White House Fact sheet from 2006:

In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv.../20070523.html

And once again the White House's own documents confirm the plot was broke up in 2002 one year BEFORE Khalid Sheik Mohammed, is caught.

Press Briefing on the West Coast Terrorist Plot by Frances Fragos Townsend, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism
......
The cell leader was arrested in February of 2002, and as we begin -- at that point, the other members of the cell believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward. You'll recall that KSM was then arrested in April of 2003 -- or was it March -- I'm sorry, March of 2003.......

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...0060209-4.html

On the other hand former FBI agent, Ali Soufon, who oversaw the enhanced interrogations and was also an undercover agent who infiltrated al qaeda, testified before congress that enhanced interrogation techniques produced no intel whatsoever.

(about 10 minutes long but an outstanding inside look into our war on terror):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ejozGNbEA

Another claim is that suspect, Abu Zubayduh, provided valuable intel after only 35 seconds of waterboarding. This same former FBI agent explains to Lindsey Graham that the CIA person who made this claim retracted it and that Zubayduh was actually water boarded 83 times. (video is only 55 seconds long):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCnN60ZWY8w

You can believe what you want but the facts are that torture does not provide valuable intelligence.......

[SocialInteraction]

better them than us.

[Gerry]

Completely false.

Not to mention that any intel that could have hoped to have been possibly gained would have a very, very, very shelf life - in other words, unless it was an impending attack or plot then the intel was worthless.

Detainees being held today on "suspicions" - do you think those captured 7-9 years ago have any valuable information to offer? The ones that were arrested on "suspicions" of being involved or part of something...do you think 7, 8, or 9 years later they have any concrete, hard intel to be gained?

Seriously, read the link I posted.

2.5 minutes of waterboarding and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has not shut up. He has admitted to everything and anything, even things he is known never to have been part of or had knowledge of.

Now, how about waterboarding people like Patty Hearst, OJ Simpson, Lance Armstrong, Derek Jeter...I'll bet those folks would spill their guts on whether they committed the crimes or took steroids.

That's the problem with our society...too soft on criminals.

[Donald Aquilano]

Blah blah blah..........You people seem to think that water boarding shouldn't be used because its inhuman and doesn't work. How do you know? Do you have access to every bit of intel as those in Congress or the president for that matter have? The answer is a big fat NO. The little bit of intel we get from are masters in Washington doesn't even scratch the surface of whether or not so called torture(water boarding) works or not. I happen to believe it does from what I've read but that's just my opinion and I'm allowed to have one.

---------- Post added at 09:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

The thing is, Uncle Sam is not just 'waterboarding' people, and I'm not even talking about torture by proxy (outsourced).
Unfortunately there will always be useful idiots to support those who stoop to the level of terrorists.

It seems that Obama is outsourcing so called torture to Pakistan. I wonder if that bothers you to. You can bet the Pakistanis don't give a rats ass about what someone like you thinks about their enhanced interrogation techniques.

[think]

Blah blah blah..........You people seem to think that water boarding shouldn't be used because its inhuman and doesn't work. How do you know? Do you have access to every bit of intel as those in Congress or the president for that matter have? The answer is a big fat NO. The little bit of intel we get from are masters in Washington doesn't even scratch the surface of whether or not so called torture(water boarding) works or not. I happen to believe it does from what I've read but that's just my opinion and I'm allowed to have one.

So congressional testimony from a former FBI agent who witnessed the enhanced interrogations and said the techniques don't work isn't a good enough source?

Your only source for claims that enhanced interrogations provided valuable intel was proven to be completely false. Why would anyone continue to believe these falsehoods?

The opinion of ex FBI agent, Ali Soufon, carries a lot more weight for me when discussing torture than opinions based on editorials that are factually incorrect. Ali Soufon actually oversaw the enhanced interrogations and also went undercover and infiltrated al quaeda.

Soufon testified before congress that better and more accurate intel was given by detainees when the Army field manual was followed rather than harsh interrogation techniques. He went on to say enhanced interrogation did NOT produce valuable intel and wasted valuable time.

You can listen to him testify in his own words before congress. It is an amazing testimony from one who was on the front line of the war on terror:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ejozGNbEA

All claims of valuable intel gained from water boarding have been proven to be false. The only logic to continue to support torture after understanding these things is to humiliate and cause undue suffering to our enemies. It does not make America safer and tarnishes America's image as the champion of civil liberties and human rights.

It seems that Obama is outsourcing so called torture to Pakistan. I wonder if that bothers you to. You can bet the Pakistanis don't give a rats ass about what someone like you thinks about their enhanced interrogation techniques.

I am opposed to torture and outsourcing torture no matter who is president. America is a nation with high values which respects human rights and it should strive to remain so.

[Gerry]

BD, that is exactly what waterboarding and torture produced...blah, blah, blah!

Hell, someone probably admitted to being O.J.'s hitman.

[Mike Cruz]

Blah blah blah..........You people seem to think that water boarding shouldn't be used because its inhuman and doesn't work. How do you know? Do you have access to every bit of intel as those in Congress or the president for that matter have? The answer is a big fat NO. The little bit of intel we get from are masters in Washington doesn't even scratch the surface of whether or not so called torture(water boarding) works or not. I happen to believe it does from what I've read but that's just my opinion and I'm allowed to have one.

Your contradicting yourself once again here buddy. So you obviously know more than we do because you read about it... I guess none of us did that either... lol...

Lol, ok, I get it now... only you can produce facts and have a opinion. Makes all the sense in the world now....


What a joker...