George W. Bush tops Obama in presidents poll

[Gerry]

I would have said the end of the gold standard.

As a whole this is not wise for any economy.

But when some one is trying to pinpoint a defining moment or reason for the decline, it would be that legislation - the same one that the bankers and cc lobbyist backs backed and tried to push for years. They found a friend in the GOP and Bush.

Clinton refused to sign and act on a similar bill.

So, if you make it nearly impossible for an individual to file bankruptcy and load them up with more money than they can manage you have created a recipe for financial ruin - for the person and financial institutions.

[Raider]

I said I read the article then tried to click on the links Michael Barone provides for his sources.

So you read the article which was 2 years old, and because the source links were deactivated, it makes the story false??? Is that what your saying?

Are you suggesting the story by Michael Barone and other Journalists, every Senator and every Congressman who have already acknowledged that Bush made repeated requests to regulate Fannie and Freddie, that ALL of them are lying?

But that's what happens when you cut and paste crap or just drop links like this. You spread bull shit created by spin doctors using deceptive practices.

Let's recap; Michael Barone, well respected Journalist for US News and World Report of 18 years is in your words a spin doctor who spreads Bullshit lies?

Nuff said


You know what THINK? I gave you the benefit of the doubt in this little debate thinking you might be able hold an intelligent debate, a debate of facts.... I gave you a 100 points at the start and you blew it. I thought maybe, just maybe you would be honest with yourself and the facts and display some level of intelligence, you've done neither.

Oh well, at least I tried... People like you just dont change, your so intellectually dishohest with yourself it's almost pitiful... People like you are just bent on blaming Bush for everything that's gone wrong, your comfortable living in that bubble of lies and doing everything you can to prevent it being popped.

Good luck with that.

So what. I don't have the time nor the interest to research these topics in depth right now. I would write US News and World Report to verify sources. Just because a link is down, doesn't mean the information wasn't there, or doesn't exist. I simply Googled that link, and got those.

You could post the most credible links possible and "think" will find some way to discredit them.

He's not interested in the article, he's NOT interested in TRUTH... All he's interested in is finding something in the article to discredit the source. It's a waste of time debating with people like this. They would much rather go around posting LIES that "Bush is to blame for all our ecomomic woes". And you know what the sad part is? I really think he believes it.

He's an uneducated dolt... I'll know better next time.

[think]

So what. I don't have the time nor the interest to research these topics in depth right now. I would write US News and World Report to verify sources. Just because a link is down, doesn't mean the information wasn't there, or doesn't exist. I simply Googled that link, and got those. Question: Is the footage real or not? Are those sources credible or not? Thomas Sowell speaks about the housing crises in quite depth, and wrote a book about it as well. If you honestly think you or anyone else here can do the topic justice you're mistaken.

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

Try this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GoAG...eature=related

First off Fab. Happy New Years! I apologize for my bitter response earlier. Even if we disagree and your links and sources don't work there is no need for me to be a sanctimonious ass. I will try to be less of an ass in future posts.

Of those that discuss politics you've always been a gentleman and provide quality sources. I was just taken back a bit as usually you don't post total crap like the last three links.

That said I am not just going to follow every link you post if you can't at least put into context what your link is about and why it supports your point of view.

Especially after both you and Raider wasted my time with nameless bloggers and bogus links to the White House.

And the anonymous video producers that won't put their name on their work and only came into existence right after Obama got elected to throw shit on Obama's presidency is not a legitimate news source either. You and I both know it's easy to manipulate film by cutting it up. If a person is not willing to put their name on their handy work it's because the content has been manipulated and they don't want to be called out for their bullshit and fabricated video clips.

I know there are legitimate points to be made and Fanny & Freddie are not with out their problems. However, Freddy and Fannie did not create the housing crisis and until you can put together your own view point on this I'm not going to take the time to review every half cocked link someone throws out there if the person is not invested enough to frame a logical argument on their own.

I have made plenty of mistakes in life and plenty in discussing politics. I've also changed my points of view after people have spent the time to help me understand positions that I was not familiar with in life. I had to put myself in another persons shoes and look through their eyes instead of my own but it helped me to see things differently.

More often than not we will not change our minds or that of another person who is actively invested in their point of view. And sometimes it comes down to what a person believes and though neither side can prove what they believe nothing will alter it.

At the end of the day we are all humans with our own unique understanding of our world. It will be up to us to decide if we spend our energy on antagonism or cooperation to build a saner and more pleasant world.

Wishing you peace and prosperity,

C.T.

[Raider]

Especially after both you and Raider wasted my time with nameless bloggers and bogus links to the White House.

It's YOU who wasted our time my liberal friend... Calling a well respected Journalist like Michael Barone a nameless blogger one who spreads lies and bullsh*t?, Discounting the wealth of information out there that proves Democrats blocked Bush requests to regulate the two agencies? Completely burying your head in the sand when truth was staring you in the face.

It not hard to find countless videos of Democrats in their own words on C-SPAN during congressional hearings stating that NOTHING is wrong with Fannie and Freddie Mac prior to the collapse, Not hard to find countless videos of Republican congressmen calling for REFORM.. But if I or Fab posted any of them, you would just come back and say the videos were fabricated and C-SPAN is not a trustworthy source.

If a person is not willing to put their name on their handy work it's because the content has been manipulated and they don't want to be called out for their bullshit and fabricated video clips.

Barone put his name on his handy work and you completely discounted it, REMEMBER? I really think you need a rest, a long one.

However, Freddy and Fannie did not create the housing crisis

This goes to prove you have NO clue what your talking about... NO CLUE AT ALL.

It's indisputable that Fannie and Freddy played a major role in the housing crisis, as did lax regulation. It was your Buddies, Dodd, Frank, Meeks, Maxine Waters and other DUMB and GREEDY Democrats who publicly said "Nothing is wrong with Fannie and Freddie Mac",

YOUR BUDS, YOUR PARTY, YOUR MESS.

And you want to blame who again? GW, the guy you don't like.

[Gerry]

Eh? Michael Barone? You mean this Michael Barone?

Barone is a Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner, where he writes a twice weekly column and contributes to their Beltway Confidential blog. He is also a frequent contributor during Fox News Channel's election coverage. His political views are generally conservative.

Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor a

The same Michael Barone who stated that the reason journalists were so harsh on Sarah Palin is because they (the journalists) wanted her to abort her down's baby.

A roomful of academics erupted in angry boos Tuesday morning after political analyst Michael Barone said journalists trashed Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republicans' vice presidential nominee, because "she did not abort her Down syndrome baby." It was only later when confronted about this statement did he say he was trying to make a joke.

So, who is the joke on...one named Raider trying to extol the merits of yet another person on the FOX news payroll.

[think]

It's YOU who wasted our time my liberal friend... Calling a well respected Journalist like Michael Barone a nameless blogger one who spreads lies and bullsh*t?, Discounting the wealth of information out there that proves Democrats blocked Bush requests to regulate the two agencies? Completely burying your head in the sand when truth was staring you in the face.

Michael Baron bases his blog on information provided by a link to the White House website on which does not work Raider. Do you understand this?

Find me any link to the White House that is an actual link that works for your and Fab's links. So far I've been feed three links from the two of you and NONE of the links to the White House work. That's not very good odds there Raider even by conservative numbers.

It not hard to find countless videos of Democrats in their own words on C-SPAN during congressional hearings stating that NOTHING is wrong with Fannie and Freddie Mac prior to the collapse, Not hard to find countless videos of Republican congressmen calling for REFORM.. But if I or Fab posted any of them, you would just come back and say the videos were fabricated and C-SPAN is not a trustworthy source.

Raider you know this video Fab linked to is a hack job or the author wouldn't hide behind an anonymous website and would put his name on his creative attempt at yellow journalism. I don't post links to anonymous bullshit and call it news. That's your job.

Barone put his name on his handy work and you completely discounted it, REMEMBER? I really think you need a rest, a long one.

Yes, I remember he is the blogger who posted the link to the White House page that is bogus.

I REPEAT THE LINK TO THE WHITE HOUSE DOES NOT WORK!

And his other link to the blog where he originally got that bogus White House link from goes to a page DISAPPEARED too.

You can't post a blogger's opinion that is suppose to be based on information he links to if the information does not exist. That's not how journalism works Raider. That's how con artists work.

Now if you provide the page at the White House web site that he bases his claims on and somehow the information just got moved then I stand corrected. UNTIL THAT TIME I CALL BULLSHIT

This goes to prove you have NO clue what your talking about... NO CLUE AT ALL.

It's indisputable that Fannie and Freddy played a major role in the housing crisis, as did lax regulation. It was your Buddies, Dodd, Frank, Meeks, Maxine Waters and other DUMB and GREEDY Democrats who publicly said "Nothing is wrong with Fannie and Freddie Mac",

YOUR BUDS, YOUR PARTY, YOUR MESS.

And you want to blame who again? GW, the guy you don't like.

Post some sources for your claims Raider. You make many accusations but your only source so far, Michael Barone, bases his entire blog post on a link to information that supposedly resides on the White House web site page that doesn't exist. Either find me the correct link or he posted a fake link provided by another blogger who's page also no longer exists.

To be fair maybe the links have been moved. But it not my job to find the source that works. It's your argument. Back it with credible links that work.

But then again maybe it's because the Bush administration altered information it posted to the WhiteHouse.gov official website in order to fit their revisionist history. Maybe that's why your links to the White house site have "disappeared" :

Iraq Ally Lists Were Altered, Study Shows

By THOM SHANKER

Published: November 24, 2008

Before invading Iraq in 2003, the Bush administration mounted a significant diplomatic offensive to rally international support, and officials at the White House, Pentagon and State Department went to great lengths to trumpet those nations that joined what they termed “the coalition of the willing.”

But historians researching those early alliance-building efforts say they are troubled by what seem to be deletions of and alterations to the early official lists of nations that supported the war effort. The lists were posted on the White House Web site.

While administration officials acknowledged that the number of nations supporting the war changed over time, academic researchers say three official lists appear to have been changed, yet retained their original release date, making them appear to be unaltered originals....

....

“But instead of issuing a new list with a new date, the White House took the unusual step of retroactively revising the original March 21 press release, without indicating that the document had been modified from its original form,” the researchers wrote.

On or before April 13, 2003, the White House posted an updated alliance list that added Tonga to the previous list of 48. This list was temporarily removed from public view in 2004, but by Nov. 3, 2004, the list had been restored with changes.

The revised list also carried a publication date of March 27, 2003, more than a year and a half before the revisions were made, the researchers report. The backdated list was modified again by changing the number of coalition countries back to 49, even though the document lists only 48 by name — without Costa Rica.

Link to article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/25/wa...ents.html?_r=1

Why worry about history when you have the power to rewrite it........

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------

Eh? Michael Barone? You mean this Michael Barone?

Barone is a Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner, where he writes a twice weekly column and contributes to their Beltway Confidential blog. He is also a frequent contributor during Fox News Channel's election coverage. His political views are generally conservative.

Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor a

The same Michael Barone who stated that the reason journalists were so harsh on Sarah Palin is because they (the journalists) wanted her to abort her down's baby.

A roomful of academics erupted in angry boos Tuesday morning after political analyst Michael Barone said journalists trashed Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republicans' vice presidential nominee, because "she did not abort her Down syndrome baby." It was only later when confronted about this statement did he say he was trying to make a joke.

So, who is the joke on...one named Raider trying to extol the merits of yet another person on the FOX news payroll.

Now that's real classy of Mr Barone.

Thank you for making the Fox News links known. I should have figured as much......

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

S
You know what THINK? I gave you the benefit of the doubt in this little debate thinking you might be able hold an intelligent debate, a debate of facts.... I gave you a 100 points at the start and you blew it. I thought maybe, just maybe you would be honest with yourself and the facts and display some level of intelligence, you've done neither.

Oh well, at least I tried... People like you just dont change, your so intellectually dishohest with yourself it's almost pitiful... People like you are just bent on blaming Bush for everything that's gone wrong, your comfortable living in that bubble of lies and doing everything you can to prevent it being popped.

Good luck with that.

I lost all 100 points Raider gave me?

Sorry but really cracks me up. Thank you. I look forward to you posting each time I was intellectually dishonest and I lost a point from you. That'll be scary....

You could post the most credible links possible and "think" will find some way to discredit them.

He's not interested in the article, he's NOT interested in TRUTH... All he's interested in is finding something in the article to discredit the source. It's a waste of time debating with people like this. They would much rather go around posting LIES that "Bush is to blame for all our ecomomic woes". And you know what the sad part is? I really think he believes it.

He's an uneducated dolt... I'll know better next time.

The only links I discredit are ones where the author is ANONYMOUS and when the sources provided by the poster don't work so there is no why to corroborate the poster's claim. If I disagree factually with a post I counter with information from a vetted source who uses a real name and whose links to the sources for their claims work.

You might try that sometime and then you'd find you actually have some ground on to stand on when you make your case........

[Raider]

If you go back to this thread from the beginning and read each and every one of your posts, your objective is clear;

Dscredit the poll, Discredit the source, Discredit the FACTS.

That's all you've done here, aside from trying to change the topic to Halliburton and Cheney, What they have to do with this poll, only you know.

This is the C-SPAN video I referenced before, it was in 2004.... It shows Democrats in complete denial of the problems surrounding Fannie and Freddie years before the collapse..

It shows Republicans PUSHING for reform like I've been TELLING you through out most of this thread.


Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam



Like I said before, YOUR BUDS, YOUR PARTY, YOUR MESS

And you and Doc are supporting these bastards who caused all this?

That figures

[think]

If you go back to this thread from the beginning and read each and every one of your posts, your objective is clear;

Dscredit the poll, Discredit the source, Discredit the FACTS.

That's all you've done here, aside from trying to change the topic to Halliburton and Cheney, What they have to do with this poll, only you know.

This is the C-SPAN video I referenced before, it was in 2004.... It shows Democrats in complete denial of the problems surrounding Fannie and Freddie years before the collapse..

It shows Republicans PUSHING for reform like I've been TELLING you through out most of this thread.


Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam



Like I said before, YOUR BUDS, YOUR PARTY, YOUR MESS

And you and Doc are supporting these bastards who caused all this?

That figures

Before I even get started. I will ask one simple question:

1. What is it you claim to be the scam that I will learn from watching your video clip? Please be specific as you are the one making the claim.


[Edit]

Never mind Raider. This is the same damn ANONYMOUS video that FAB linked to created by some website called NakedEmperorNews.com. A site that was created in April 2008 and does not list a single person on it's website that is the author, producer, or owner of the web site.

This is what I mean about posting BULLSHIT and calling it news Raider. There is no way to validate any of this cut and hack job. Where is the unedited footage from CSPAN? Why isn't this linked to so I can see if all these bits and pieces weren't taken out of context?

I've said before Freddy Mae and Freddy Mac have problems but they are NOT the main reason we had the last financial crisis. Did problems there contribute to the crisis? Yes.

Did Dodd and Frank block specific legislation regarding Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac that you have failed to give links to the actual wording of? I would assume so but your links suck and don't work so I don't know. Perhaps you could quit being so intellectually lazy and provide me a working link to back your claims from a source who isn't afraid to put his name on his "journalistic efforts".
[/Edit]

[Gerry]

Before I even get started. I will ask one simple question:

1. What is it you claim to be the scam that I will learn from watching your video clip? Please be specific as you are the one making the claim.

Honestly, her tactics are to change subjects midstream. She has to be a champion dodge ball player.

When you question her sources, you are performing a blasphemous act. How dare you question her sources, her information, and GOP bible.

I have already posted what the issue was in regards to fannie and freddie and how the GOP baited this legislation with pork to fatten up the GOP to include one of the sons of one person amending the bill. And when this pork was uncovered - no, it was not passed.

Here's the kicker - the president at any time could have fired, retired, or replaced those in charge of Fannie and Freddie. Yet, he did not.

As mentioned, the only action came by a "voluntary" resignation and retirement when it was the SEC investigating the cooked books.

So, lets take a little ort of information from a found cspan tape that outlines someone's concerns and label that as the entire DEM party's stance, and say it was the liberal turd's fault.

You know, this reminds me of MMS and their scandal when the gulf oil leak. Documents and federal investigation that took two years to investigate and complete (2006 - september 2008; how convenient) showing not only widespread corruption in the MMS, but members on oil company payrolls while being a federal employee and the infamous "MMS CHICKS" used as the oil execs concubine.

---------- Post added at 11:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------

Oh, and let's not forget this report:

It wasn't long before Fannie and the administration were effectively at war. Two bills to reform the GSEs were introduced--a Fannie-friendly bill in the House and a White House--friendly bill in the Senate sponsored by Republican Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama. The administration squashed the House bill; Wayne Abernathy, a Treasury official, said, "We must not settle for a crippled regulator." The Senate bill was moving along--until Republican Senator Bob Bennett of Utah (who had the backing of other Senators) added an amendment giving Congress a 45-day window to veto the receivership. That, of course, completely undercut the notion that the government would no longer back the GSEs. Bennett's son is the deputy director of Fannie's Partnership Office in Utah.

---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------

Never mind Raider. This is the same damn ANONYMOUS video that FAB linked to created by some website called NakedEmperorNews.com. A site that was created in April 2008 and does not list a single person on it's website that is the author, producer, or owner of the web site.

WHAAAAAAAAAAA???

You mean Breitbart can edit and splice and take excepts and pieces of a conversation and put it on the air but others can't?

WHAAAAAAAAA???

[think]

[/COLOR]WHAAAAAAAAAAA???

You mean Breitbart can edit and splice and take excepts and pieces of a conversation and put it on the air but others can't?

WHAAAAAAAAA???

Next thing you'll be telling me is that James O'Keefe didn't actually wear that pimp suit that he's in on his "news story" when he went into the those Acorn offices

Oh wait he didn't"

Hannah Giles Explains Those Pimp and Prostitute Outfits

By David Weigel | 02.19.10 | 1:04 pm

I caught up with Hannah Giles, co-star of the ACORN sting videos, after she accepted one of 10 “Buckley Awards” handed out in the XPAC lounge for young conservative leaders. Weekly Standard reporter John McCormack and FreedomWorks organizer Brendan Steinhauser were among the winners, but no one attracted as much attention as Giles, who was approached every two or three minutes by photograph-seekers.

“This was terrifying at first, being here,” said Giles, who was sporting black pumps, a black top, and a black-and-pink miniskirt as she walked through the conference halls. Was she getting used to the attention? “Nope! I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it.”

I asked Giles about a criticism that’s often been leveled against them — that they hyped up the video by wearing outrageous clothes in promotional materials and the videos’ introductions that they didn’t wear in the actual stings.

“We never claimed that he went in with a pimp costume,” said Giles. “That was b-roll. It was purely b-roll. He was a pimp, I was a prostitute, and we were walking in front of government buildings to show how the government was whoring out the American people.”

Link to the article:

http://washingtonindependent.com/770...titute-outfits

But I'm sure if you asked the Average American they would tell you James O'Keefe was wearing that pimp outfit when he made those interviews. I know I did until I read this. Nothing misleading and unethical about throwing a little B roll acting into your breaking news clip.....

[Raider]

There is no way to validate any of this cut and hack job.

It's called a summary.. A summary of clear statements made by the crooks who got us into this mess.

Not sure what you mean by "Validate" Are you suggesting the words were altered? You almost sound like that idiot "DocCum" who said Obama NEVER said Electricity rates would nearly double, which in fact he DID.

Don't become a idiot like him. PLEASE.

Don't do it to your kids.

Where is the unedited footage from CSPAN? Why isn't this linked to so I can see if all these bits and pieces weren't taken out of context?

Here ya GO


DIRECT FROM C-SPAN

I suppose the next excuse you'll dream is that it's too long to watch... Right?

It basically confirms what I've been saying all along... The Democrats strongly OPPOSED to any Reform, while Bush and the Republicans were pushing for reform.


Enjoy;

Congressional Hearing on Fannie Mae on October 6th 2004

[Raider]

So, lets take a little ort of information from a found cspan tape that outlines someone's concerns and label that as the entire DEM party's stance, and say it was the liberal turd's fault.

I'd say that label of the DEMOCRATS stance was pretty damn accurate don't you?

Leave it to a bonehead like you to protect your precious Democratics who allowed Fannie Mae to manipulate earnings targets so company executives could pocket hundreds of millions in bonuses.

And you call yourself an American? your a disgrace.