Is global warming real or a hoax?

[theinvestor]

I just wanted to add my two cents.
You can do research and find that the suns brightness actually gets brighter in cycles...usually 25 year periods. People are so interested in global warming on Earth that they don't bother looking at other places. Mars is actually warming up as well. You can easily google these figures, and see how mars temperature has been increasing greatly over the years.

So when you put all the information together...if mars is warming up as well as the Earth it makes you wonder if it's MMGW. Sure our emissions of carbon dioxide may have a very slight affect, but is it affecting other planets as well? We're not the only planet warming up.

BTW, Ethanol as an alternative fuel source is in fact causing more pollution. Do some research, it may be cheaper as crude oil prices increase.

Don't be fooled by thinking it's environmentally the best choice though.

[GoPC]

Originally Posted by H2FC

Whats the point of continuing to make a fool of yourself GoPC?

Me?

Stick you head back in the sand so the rest of us can have a logical conversation.

You are right about one thing... MMGW is HISTORY... Fewer and fewer people are buying the hype any more. The trend, political push and other nonsense has given way to logical debate, the golbal admission that the dommsdayers really don't have the data and the fact that all historical records point to a completely normal and natural climate pattern that is, by nature, a roller coaster of temperature changes.

Algore continues to make millions, capitalizing on the MMGW propaganda and will go down in history as the most successful snake oil salesman EVER.

AMWAY will build monuments to Algore... but I doubt anyone else ever will.

GoPC

[Doc Com]

Originally Posted by aZooZa

Doc, this was a 'troll' right from the start -- right?

Nope...well, maybe.

The Brit statement is a response towards a time line in a previous post.

Man had nothing to do with it?

The greatest variance came at the late 1800's to early 1900's?

Are we the only two who have ever heard of the Industrial Revolution?

Mercy, what do they teach these children these days.

[Nova]

Just when you thought it was safe to think the question was only about global warming:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Is global warming real?

If global warming is real after all, could it already be far worse than we think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming

Global dimming also creates a cooling effect that may have partially masked the effect of greenhouse gases on global warming

If global warming is real, could it really have been caused by factors beyond our control, and not our own behavior?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ce&btnG=Search

http://www.physorg.com/news11710.html

However, the most potent greenhouse gas is water, explains Shaidurov and it is this compound on which his study focuses. According to Shaidurov, only small changes in the atmospheric levels of water, in the form of vapour and ice crystals can contribute to significant changes to the temperature of the earth's surface, which far outweighs the effects of carbon dioxide and other gases released by human activities. Just a rise of 1% of water vapour could raise the global average temperature of Earth's surface more then 4 degrees Celsius.

Water vapour levels are even less within our control than CO2 levels. According to Andrew E. Dessler of the Texas A & M University writing in 'The Science and Politics of Global Climate Change', "Human activities do not control all greenhouse gases, however. The most powerful greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is water vapour, he says, "Human activities have little direct control over its atmospheric abundance, which is controlled instead by the worldwide balance between evaporation from the oceans and precipitation."

If it's real, is it really mainly from the Sun?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...un&btnG=Search

What's the answer? Who "decides" what the truth is? Did it really happen? Did we do it? Is it all of the above? Is it a, b, or c? Is it a and c, but not b? Is it none of the above? Does economics or partisan politics have any place in the matter, or only the search for truth?

What is the truth?

[H2FC]

The truth is that any sensible person would agree that burning fossil fuels for energy cannot be a good thing. There are so many faults with this the average person does not even comprehend them all.

The good news is that mankind has seriously began to pursue and develop new clean alternative energies to replace fossil fuels as our main source of energy. This work will continue through-out our lifetimes and because of progressive efforts to improve on the technology and impliment it, the dirty fossil fuels will eventually be replaced. The technology will continue to get better and our world will be much better off for it.

Al Gore is now and has been for many years the main advocate of the fight against globalwarming caused by burning fossil fuels for energy. Personal opinions about Gore doesn't matter.....the great majority of scientific evidence supports his stand against manmade excessive co2 and thats all that should matter to any of us.

This crap being posted by the naysayers that Gore is making tons of money on the GW issue is just plain stupid in my opinion. Gore is a private citizen and a business man. He's worth over $100 million now and why shouldn't he invest his money in something he obviosly knows a lot about and something he has a passion for? It would be dumb for him to not invest his money in alternative energies....and I'm pretty sure if he didn't the naysayers would be saying he doesn't really believe in the new green technology himself.

I have also been bashed and criticized in these GW threads because I invest in green and alternative energy domains. My answer to that is I began in the 90's registering fuelcell names because I believed in the technology....and I still do. I've followed the GW issue for many years and, like Al Gore, I have a right to invest in any sector I wish to and I choose to invest in a sector that I have a strong interest in. If that offends anyone thats just too bad.....their problem, not mine.

[Nova]

Originally Posted by H2FC

The truth is that any sensible person would agree that burning fossil fuels for energy cannot be a good thing. There are so many faults with this the average person does not even comprehend them all.

The good news is that mankind has seriously began to pursue and develop new clean alternative energies to replace fossil fuels as our main source of energy. This work will continue through-out our lifetimes and because of progressive efforts to improve on the technology and impliment it, the dirty fossil fuels will eventually be replaced. The technology will continue to get better and our world will be much better off for it.

What about urban legends of new and improved technology being squashed already? Any truth buried there beneath a pile of hush money? Is cold fusion really so out of reach now? Did those 80 - 100 mpg vehicles really exist already?

Will I do well with PrepaidOil (dot) com in the meantime?

[tas38]

Today I went to get my auto inspected, there was a few people talking in the waiting room. They was talking about global warming, they was saying it was normal weather cycles. And that 400 experts had a meet and the news would not cover that, because all of them was saying man made global warming was a lie.

Another said that right, and that all 3 running for the white house. Will sign on to new taxes, for a CO2 credit scam and we will all pay for it. The owner of the shop was agreeing with all this, well normally I would say not at all and start telling them how they know it's man made. But instead I needed a sticker on my auto, so I shut my mouth but felt very uneasy about it all.

This whole thing is just plan nuts, we got people saying the news is out right one sided. But then believe everything they are feed by the same news stations, first off I don't think we can call them news. They are in fact talk shows more then news stations, 2nd people need to use some common sense. Some thing that is on short supply these days, like anyone can easy do some real research on man made global warming.

Not only that they can find how all the experts get their facts, and who is full of it and who is not. Surely everyone learn the skills to do research in school, but yet we got so many people. Saying really dumb stuff that have no grounding in fact, I've done lots of research on this stuff. The fact is yes it's man made global warming, not all of it but a good part of it. Will we all die from it no we will not, but millions may die and many more will stuffer.

And yes more people don't care, as long as they and their don't suffer. Will wild life suffer yes greatly, will all wild life be wiped out no but some will be lost forever. It's a fact it's not just the CO2 humans are putting out, it's also wipping out so many trees. Dumping trash every place on earth, using resources so fast they will be used up with in a life time. This is real selfishness on a massive scale, it's really all about a big change of thinking world wide.

We live in a world that most people think, about what best for them now and never look beyond that much. Doing what is right for your kids is one thing, but looking beyond that to doing what is right for their kids is some else. Just in my gen things have changed big time, some good some bad some had to change other didn't. I do believe we are at the stage, that humans can indeed wipe them self's out by the choices we make now.

Some times we talk about what it would be like in a few 100 years, and most people my self as well say, we would not want to see how it will be like then. So is very true for most people, but we have to go beyond that and ask our self's. What we can do that could help make it then, that we would want to see what it was like, in a few 100 years from now. We are all part of a chain, a link to what it will be like in a few 100 years from now.

Will the human race kill them self's at any point, or will they leave earth and start spading out to other planets. Will humans keep moving ahead to be better and better, or will they go back to slaves and killing on a large scale like before in history. History will keep repeating it's self, until the human race moves beyond their normal thinking. And that means looking ahead, and see what is beyond our own life times., and see our self's as just link to that.

More people have been killed in the name of GOD, then all other things put together and this has not changed. Here we are in 2008 repeating our history like so many times before, instead of thinking how we can change history a few 100 years from now. We think only of what our needs are now, and how we can get what we want for our kids and our self's. We are at a point now though, that we as humans could see how humans can wipe them self's out at some point.

But we are also in a time, that if we try real hard we can work at it and change that. But we must change the way we think, on a world wide scale in order for that to ever happen. Because together we will fail, or together we will change how history repeats it;s self. We need not fail like so many times before in history, many times humans rose to greatness, only to take that big fall and start all over working back to greatness once again.

[fab]

There's been a lot achieved by those efforts Rusty. The alternative energy sector is booming right now... even the Bush adminstration can't stop it and God knows they've done everything they can against it. It will really explode with a new adminstration because whoever wins the office will assure its success. ALL candidates now running have vowed to fight manmade global warming.....note the ones who didn't make this vow are no longer in contention.

Yep, good o'l politics. Alternative energy, believe it or not, is not only a political issue, but an economic-financial one, which has been researched for over half a century, and yes the democrats haven't taken it seriously, or only about as serious as some of the posters here.

[tas38]

fab you are right about the dems, they all talk the talk but no real fixes to the problems. They preach biofuel and that political speech making, when in fact biofuel is worst then oil. But it makes for great speeches, MCcain has talked way better plan to fix it then both dems.

I'm not for this CO2 credit stuff, it's only more ways to scam money from people. Any real change must be by passing laws, to make going green driven by the markets. And force people to change their thinking, because the real problems are all about how people think.

The fact is not one of the 3 running for the white house, could really make such great speeches, that it would move everyone to change the way they think. CO2 is only a part of it, cutting down trees and dumping trash. Using up resources that can not be replace, in many life times all play a big part in the real problem.

[fab]

Could someone please tell me, waht percentage of homes in the US use Solar Water Heating?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_hot_water

[GoPC]

I couldn't agree more with your last entire post, there Tas.

THANK YOU for not taking a politically motivated stance and just sharing your passion and conviction for the environment and the protection of it.

The discussion is (and should continue to be) on ways to conserve energy, limit waste and protect the environment while still propelling the economy and simulating growth.

Well said.

GoPC

[Compassion]

HOAX HOAX HOAX

Please see the beautifully done documentary entitled:

ESOTERIC AGENDA

Can be found at google video.


Peace

[H2FC]

Manmade average globalwarming is very real....For the naysayers who have used the recent winter cold snap here in the USA to support their 'tunnel vision' I offer the latest worldwide report on globalwarming...

Warmth in Asia raised temperature of world land areas to record level
By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID , Associated Press

Last update: April 17, 2008 - 7:41 PM

WASHINGTON - Planet Earth continues to run a fever. Last month was the warmest March on record over land surfaces of the world and the second warmest overall worldwide. For the United States, however, it was just an average March, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reported Thursday.

NOAA's National Climatic Data Center said high temperatures over much of Asia pulled the worldwide land temperature up to an average of 40.8 degrees Fahrenheit (4.9 degrees Celsius), 3.2 degrees (1.8 C) warmer than the average in the 20th century.

While Asia had its greatest January snow cover this year, warm March readings caused a rapid melt and March snow cover on the continent was a record low.

Global ocean temperatures were the 13th warmest on record, with a weakening of the La Nina conditions that cool the tropical Pacific Ocean.

Overall land and sea surface temperatures for the world were second highest in 129 years of record keeping, trailing only 2002, the agency said.

Warming conditions in recent decades have continued to raise concern about global climate change, which many weather and climate experts believe is related to gases released into the atmosphere by industrial and transportation processes.

The climate center said that for the 48 contiguous United States it was about average, ranking as the 63rd warmest March in 113 years of record keeping.

The average temperature for the U.S. in March was 42 degrees, 0.4 degrees below the 20th century mean.

The agency said only Rhode Island, New Mexico and Arizona were warmer than average, while near-average temperatures occurred in 39 other states. The monthly temperature for Alaska was the 17th warmest on record.

The snow pack declined in many parts of the West in March, but the Western snow pack remains the best in more than a decade thanks to heavy snowfall December through February.

For the month, nine states from Oklahoma to Vermont were much wetter than average, with Missouri experiencing its second wettest March on record.

Moderate to extreme drought remains in much of the Southeast despite rainfall in the middle of the month. http://www.startribune.com/nation/17855149.html

[GoPC]

More abhorant rhetoric from a continually proven MMGW religious zealot.

For example:

Originally Posted by H2FC

Global ocean temperatures were the 13th warmest on record, with a weakening of the La Nina conditions that cool the tropical Pacific Ocean.

As compared to NPRs article regarding the true and measured ocean temperatures...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=88520025

Even the MMGW nutcases there have to find a way to discredit their own data because it doesn't fit their expectations.

This is proof yet again of both the TRUTH about totally normal climate change AND the total willingness of these zealots to manipulate and distort the facts for their own purposes.

The core of the argument continues to be wrong... but they want us to just disregard that and believe anyway.

I'm sorry... if your foundation is wrong, then I can't believe ANYTHING you say. And when you continue to promote misleading information and lies like this, you are not helping your cause AT ALL.

Nice try... better luck next time.

GoPC

[HarveyJ]

GoPC, whether or not the effect is natural or man made, doesn't prevent the fact that the environment is clearly changing.
Rain patterns are drying up in crop producing areas, other areas are becoming more and more flood prone, and extreme weather is ratcheting up every year.
This you can't actually deny.

Now, natural cycle or not doesn't matter, because if it continues to get worse, we're all screwed. Even if it continues the way it currently is, we're in deep trouble.

The real question isn't whether this is a man made problem or not. That's a complete red herring designed to throw people off a course of action that would actually help us reverse this problem. Rather than put some money into it, people are happy to blather about something that sounds like it's important.
What causes this is NOT important. What is is that we ARE going through some sort of climate change that DOES NOT fit in with previously predicted models or hisotircal patterns.

The real question that people keep asking, and trying to get through climate-change denialist's heads, is "what's being done about it?"

[H2FC]

Originally Posted by GoPC

I'm sorry... if your foundation is wrong, then I can't believe ANYTHING you say. And when you continue to promote misleading information and lies like this, you are not helping your cause AT ALL.

Nice try... better luck next time.

GoPC

Take it personal if you like....

When you see something posted that you disagree with you label it misleading and lies....thats not very smart on your part...especially when over 75% of your fellow citizens are convinced its true.

According to you 9 out of 10 of our most respected climate scientists in the world are wrong on manmade globalwarming.....I think I'll go along with the great majority and let the extreme right wing skeptical element such as you continue to make fools of themselves.....even the most hard core deniers are joining the believers....look at the position your beloved goofball president has moved to.....even he cannot deny manmade globalwarming in the face of the overwhelming evidence.....but I guess he doesn't have the vast amount of information you use to base your assessment on....right?