Is global warming real or a hoax?

[tas38]

How about some proof on the article, that person sounds mad and bring up everything but the sink. I do not believe everything I read, unless it has some proof of what being said.

[tractor]

I am just amazed at how long this thread is and that it is even being debated. The human race is without doubt suffocating the planet. Whether AL Gores predictions are accurate or not is not really a concern of mine, he is raising awareness and we all need to start being aware of the effect our lifestyles and consumerist mindset is having.
Go AL

[H2FC]

Originally Posted by tractor

I am just amazed at how long this thread is and that it is even being debated. The human race is without doubt suffocating the planet. Whether AL Gores predictions are accurate or not is not really a concern of mine, he is raising awareness and we all need to start being aware of the effect our lifestyles and consumerist mindset is having.
Go AL

If you go back and read these posts you will see the sceptics main objections are based on their jealousy over Al Gore and his success with his MMGW awareness program. They blame him for all the reactions to the truth of MMGW the world over and for putting them in the small minority of MMGW naysayers.

The great majority of rational thinking people the world over see and understand that Gore is merely a voice of GW awareness. He has dedicated his life to a cause he feels strongly about and is doing all he can to make others aware of the serious impact co2 will have on our planet earth. The fact that mankind is the cause of excessive co2 is well accepted by the best scientific minds. Its not Gore's idea as the sceptics would have us believe.

I've said many times here that its a person of mighty small character that would condemn and denounce another simple because he invests his money in a cause he feels strongly about. The fact is the world needs more entrepreneurs like Gore who are willing to invest in the promotion of alternative energies. They do our world a great service and are certainly entitled to any profits they can earn. I hope they are very successful because when they benefit we benefit. Too bad our little group of Gore bashers don't agree with this....their strong disagreement serves to prove their stupidity or lack of character.....I don't think they're stupid.

[GoPC]

Originally Posted by H2FC

If you go back and read these posts you will see the sceptics main objections are based on their jealously over Al Gore and his success with his MMGW awareness program.

Okay... now that I've picked myself up off the floor from laughing so hard....

You can't actually BELIEVE what you just said. You can't. It's.... it's 100% opposite of what our posted, printed words are shown to say on this and the threads before.

I'm seriously having trouble even writing from the tears of laughter in my eyes.



Of course, it's not out of line for your character to read one thing and report it as entirely opposite. So... I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

But C'mon... Even YOU have to see the total and complete JOKE you just made yourself out to be.

Oh yeah... I'm "jealous" of Algore's success in lying and cheating countless people. I'm "jealous" of his using unfounded hysteria to gain financial and political power. I'm jealous of the fact he's committed the largest and most successful SCAM in known history. I'm jealous that I don't have mindless believers like you following me around, handing on my every word.

Give me a second while I catch my breath... Seriously, this is the best laugh I've had in a long, long time. Thanks for starting my day off this way.

GoPC

[H2FC]

Originally Posted by GoPC

Okay... now that I've picked myself up off the floor from laughing so hard....

I'm seriously having trouble even writing from the tears of laughter in my eyes.



Give me a second while I catch my breath... Seriously, this is the best laugh I've had in a long, long time. Thanks for starting my day off this way.

GoPC

So you're gonna use your childlike tactic of laughing it off and changing the subject as you usually do when confronted with a truth you can't deny and twist to your benefit?

Aren't you even going to deny the truth of the message I posted...or can you just admit its an inner jealousy, perhaps one you yourself was unaware of, that drives you to such strong criticism and bashing of such a great American? A man who has worked so tirelessly toward fighting our world's most dangerous problem and bringing it to the attention of so many.

"The great majority of rational thinking people the world over see and understand that Gore is merely a voice of GW awareness. He has dedicated his life to a cause he feels strongly about and is doing all he can to make others aware of the serious impact co2 will have on our planet earth. The fact that mankind is the cause of excessive co2 is well accepted by the best scientific minds. Its not Gore's idea as the sceptics would have us believe.

I've said many times here that its a person of mighty small character that would condemn and denounce another simply because he invests his money in a cause he feels strongly about. The fact is the world needs more entrepreneurs like Gore who are willing to invest in the promotion of alternative energies. They do our world a great service and are certainly entitled to any profits they can earn. I hope they are very successful because when they benefit we benefit. Too bad our little group of Gore bashers don't agree with this....their strong disagreement serves to prove their stupidity or lack of character.....I don't think they're stupid."

[GoPC]

No... no... you're just freakin hilarious.

Jealousy?

And you want to lecture me about being childish?

Stop... you're giving me cramps! LOL!!!!

GoPC

[000]

Originally Posted by H2FC

I've said many times here that its a person of mighty small character that would condemn and denounce another simple because he invests his money in a cause he feels strongly about.

Originally Posted by H2FC

Please don't offer any of the naysaying talking heads like Rush, Glenn or the republican senator from Oklahoma. Their credentials have been badly tarnished by the Exxon oil money.

OK, in this thread investors (ref: post 158) get carte blanche, but we drop the hammer on anyone receiving dirty money. Fair enough. "Sometimes, you never fully face up to things that you ought to face up to." -- Al Gore, discussing why he accepted checks from his family tobacco farm and contributions from tobacco companies for years after the tragic death of his sister that he spoke about so emotionally at the 1996 Democratic convention. (Source: "'Numbness' Let Gore Accept Tobacco Help," San Francisco Chronicle, August 30, 1996)

[H2FC]

Group plans for carbon tax

By SARAH KESSINGER

Harris News Service

TOPEKA -- Gov. Kathleen Sebelius named a lineup of business and industry leaders Thursday along with scientists who specialize in climate change to begin planning the state's approach to an expected federal carbon tax.

Sebelius announced the new Kansas Energy and Environmental Policy Advisory Group just as the Legislature concluded a session that centered heavily on whether to allow construction of two coal-fired power plants in southwest Kansas.

The debate centered on the carbon emissions expected from the two plants. Carbon dioxide, considered a contributor to global climate change, is also the target of debate at the federal level. Dozens of proposals on how to limit its emission from power plants and automobiles are under consideration by Congress.

Sebelius said in a statement issued by her office that experts agree Congress is likely to introduce a tax on CO2 emissions in coming years, which could raise the price on energy made by burning fossil fuels. The new advisory panel will focus on that challenge in particular, she said Thursday.

Environmentalists have called on state and national leaders to develop a strategy for addressing the rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

"Coal's already 75 percent of our energy production in Kansas. Let's decrease it and decrease anything else that produces CO2," said Tom Thompson, Sierra Club lobbyist, as the legislative session concluded earlier this week.

"People need to sit down at a table and look at ways to get energy to people in the cleanest, most affordable way," he said. "We need energy efficiency, we need wind (energy), we need all kinds of things that don't add more carbon. People need to sit down and figure out what's the overall plan."

The group will be led by Jack Pelton, president and chief executive at Cessna Aircraft in Wichita.

The governor's new advisory panel will work with the Center for Climate Strategies, a Pennsylvania consulting firm that assists states in establishing climate action plans.

More members will be named to the panel, she said, as soon as legislative leaders make some appointments. The group will meet for the first time on May 20 in Wichita.
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/sto...gy-plan-5-8-08

And from the Northwest we have yet another group deeply concerned about MMGW....
Global warming debate heats up in Northwest
http://www.ktvz.com:80/global/story.asp?s=8293316

[tas38]

( state's approach to an expected federal carbon tax )

I'm not for a carbon tax that will cost us more money, while the feds and states take their share for their own funds. I like laws that will work much better, first taxing it will work wonders for big biz. Wipping out the small places, and giving our gov't more funds to build bridges to no where. May be then they can give the money to make much more bio fuel, that uses more dirty fuel to make then what it makes.

The gov't likes that I'm sure, get taxes from selling dirty fuel to make bio fuel. Then collect more taxes on selling the bio fuel, and then they can collect more carbon taxes from both as well. Ha they can then even charge us carbon taxes, on the fuels when we buy it as well. They could even charge us carbon taxes on our houses, and autos this is a dream come true for the gov't.

And they will drag their feet way longer, bleeding us with the new carbon taxes. Once they get it they will never give it up, even if we stop all CO2 out put that a fact. See they will need to replace all the money, they make on dirty fuel and now they can really get much more taxes from us all. While acting as if they was really trying to cut CO2 levels, we don't need taxes we need laws. Or be upfront with us and put a milage, and heating tax on us.

The UK taxes gas big time, and the people buying the gas get to pay for it. This is where this is headed for us, you know this is not going to be paid by dirty fuel suppliers but us. And big oil will get even bigger, because the smaller places that keep oil cheaper will be knocked out. I said it before we need laws not taxes, laws will force going green to be driven by the markets.

They will keep the price down then save us money, and make lots of money for those finding the best way to go green. If it's taxed the big dirty fuel suppliers, will be the only ones driving going green. And you can count on them making all kinds of money off of us, they will take way longer to milk us and the gov't will not care. Because they will milk us on the taxes, and any cheap ways of going green will be cut off by the big guys.

[tractor]

Originally Posted by 000

OK, in this thread investors (ref: post 158) get carte blanche, but we drop the hammer on anyone receiving dirty money. Fair enough. "Sometimes, you never fully face up to things that you ought to face up to." -- Al Gore, discussing why he accepted checks from his family tobacco farm and contributions from tobacco companies for years after the tragic death of his sister that he spoke about so emotionally at the 1996 Democratic convention. (Source: "'Numbness' Let Gore Accept Tobacco Help," San Francisco Chronicle, August 30, 1996)

More often than not it takes a tragedy or some defining moment in life to wake us up to the reality of whats important in life. There are many examples of people who, for example have contracted a life threatening disease or lost someone close to them to cancer, HIV, war etc, who become outspoken campaigners on a cause and AG is another one of those and I applaud him for his dedication and tireless efforts to raise awareness of GW.

In every situation be it war, disease or GW there are opportunities and someone will take advantage of those situations. AG's is a noble cause and hope he makes a fortune while he raises the awareness.

[000]

Originally Posted by tas38

( state's approach to an expected federal carbon tax )
I'm not for a carbon tax

Well said, I agree. Global warming tax "solutions" are the biggest cash cow to come down the pike since the New Deal. Every politician from your local dog catcher to the UN secretary-general is salivating at the prospect of grabbing more of your hard earned money in the name of saving the world. The usual band of suspects is egging them on. What's wrong, don't you care about Mother Earth? Once that money vacuum cranks up, it never shuts off. The proponents are actually scoring a twofer - saving the planet and redistributing wealth. Sweet.

[GoPC]

I applaud each and every person that works and campaigns for good and honest and noble things such as conservation, clean energy, proper environmental management, et all.

What I loath is those that disguise a money or power grab under these noble ideas... using fear and panic as tools for their own personal success. In the end, they don't really, truly give a rat's butt about what happens... so long as they get the biggest suites, baskets of fluffy white towels, their own jet plane, 13 Suburban caravans around town and political getaways in the most lavish parts of the World.

All on the TAXPAYERS backs.

The scary thing is, THEY KNOW, that once you lemmings agree to pay the tax, they will continue taking that money from everyone well after MMGW is proven false (or "fixed") when they "reallocate" those funds for some newer, noble purpose.

In a terrific bit of insight, Tas stumbled on to the greater truth...

It doesn't matter WHO you tax the living snot out of... Big Oil, Big Corporations, Big whatever you want to blame your problems on... They are just going to pass the costs RIGHT ON TO YOU. So in addition to your own personal tax load increase and limitations on freedom, you will get to bear their costs as well at the pump, at the grocer, at the department store, in your electric bill, travel. Every other element of your lives.

Step back, look past the end of your nose and take a look at the big picture and you will see that you are invested in Failure, Misery and Suffering and in fact, define your lives by it. It's not a positive way to live.

But lucky for you, we're here to help.

GoPC

[H2FC]

Here's what we will have...
We will have new cap and trade co2 tax laws signed into law by the new president. We will also have clean energy tax credits and/or other subsidies for those who install solar panels or use new clean solar and/or wind energies in other ways i.e., from solar or wind farms.

Here's why we will have it...
The true cost of dirty fuel includes the cost of capturing and storing the carbon produced when the dirty fuel is burned for energy. The days of just simply dumping the harmful by product of dirty energy into our atmosphere is coming to an end. Since the companies and governments responsible for this will not clean up their act it will require taxing to force them do it. The dirty energy tax money received will be used to develop and promote the use of clean energies. Eventually the cost of the new clean fuel/energies will be comparable with the dirty fuel/energies and that will result in more progressive advancement and use of new clean fuel/energies.

The taxing of dirty fuel/energy will be made possible by a restructuring of our tax system that will not impose any more tax burden on the ordinary taxpayer than we already have....it will probably be less. Our tax system is way out of date and must be restructured anyway. Why not replace our employment tax with a dirty energy tax? How much sense does it make to tax the family bread winner on his/her salary and not tax the dirty energy co2 thats being dumped into our atmosphere and ruining our planet?

Why not quit paying a subsidy to the oil companies and instead use that hundreds of millions on developing and implimenting new alternative energies? Why not close all those legal loopholes that are costing the ordinary taxpayer billions of dollars every year?

The new president, whoever it may be has promised the american people some big changes. These are the kind of changes they are talking about. It will happen and we'll all be much better off for it.

There is nothing you or I can do to change it....I wouldn't want to anyway because I'm convinced that if MMGW is not stopped our planet and people are in for some big problems unlike any we've ever seen before. All the naysaying sceptics can just continue bashing Gore and denying the truth but they will obey the new laws of the land to protect us from MMGW....there's nothing they can do about it...the majority of the people want changes and that includes protection from MMGW....and changes they will have.

[GoPC]

Originally Posted by H2FC

The new president, whoever it may be has promised the american people some big changes.

There is nothing you or I can do to change it...

In my experience, the best way to get a presidential hopeful to go back on their word is to ELECT THEM.

LOL!!!!

GoPC

[000]

Originally Posted by H2FC

Why not replace our employment tax with a dirty energy tax?

Why not? Because government appetite for tax revenue is always growing. Individual and corporate income grows over time and income taxes feed the beast quite nicely. Dirty energy's days are numbered due to finite natural resources, engineering advances, capitalism and government regulations. These factors squeeze dirty energy tax growth prospects, making it a poor candidate to replace income taxes. Furthermore, "progressive" income taxes are a tool favored by socialists to redistribute wealth. In contrast, dirty energy taxes would flow down directly to their core constituency, causing unrest and problems at election time.

The solution? Income tax and energy tax, pleasing socialists, MMGW activists and their friends! Misery loves company.

[fab]

Here's what we will have...
We will have new cap and trade co2 tax laws signed into law by the new president. We will also have clean energy tax credits and/or other subsidies for those who install solar panels or use new clean solar and/or wind energies in other ways i.e., from solar or wind farms.

1. We will have new cap and trade co2 tax laws
Bad idea.
2. We will also have clean energy tax credits and/or other subsidies for those who install solar panels or use new clean solar and/or wind energies in other ways i.e., from solar or wind farms
Tax credits - good idea, subsidies, bad idea.

BTW. some tax credits to the best of my knowledge already exist.

Moreover, solar panel water heating is already economical in sunny areas.

Just thought I would add this:

Oil Use Down in US, Way Up Globally

Published May 7, 2008
Oil Use Down in US, Way Up Globally

Oil prices continue to surge to new records. A barrel of light sweet crude peaked above $123 on Wednesday. Gasoline is selling at a national average of about $3.60 a gallon, according to AAA. And according to the Energy Department, prices at the pump will surpass $4 a gallon this summer.

This is all old news. The bigger question is whether or not the economic fundamentals of rising prices will reduce consumption. According to a new monthly report from the Energy Department, the answer is yes. The Energy Department is projecting that domestic gasoline consumption will decline by about 190,000 barrels a day this year. Add increased use of ethanol, and the overall petroleum tab will drop by 330,000 barrels a day—the first annual decline since the oil price shocks of Iraq War I.

This reduction of oil consumption, and the concomitant decrease in greenhouse gas emissions, might resemble a silver lining in the dark clouds of economic recession, climate change, and fragile energy markets. But wait. Those 330,000 barrels of oil account for less than 1 percent of total gasoline demand in the United States. More importantly, while U.S. consumption takes a dip, global oil demand is projected to rise by 1.2 million barrels per day. This year, China alone will add 800,000 barrels a day to its consumption levels.

What does that mean for you and your experience at the local filling station? Demand will continue to outstrip supplies, pushing oil and gasoline prices even higher. Goldman Sachs sees the price of a barrel going past $150 and heading toward $200. Other industry analysts predict $7 at the pumps in the next few years.

So those MMGW, better get involved with China!