Greece Explained

[lordbyroniv]

[Makis77]

I guess there will be a part2 of this story, right?

Debt or not debt, imf or just bankrupted we are still going to have our islands and powerful beauty of nature, "they" cant get those away(?).
I(and I m not the only one) surely wont pay for much longer other people's debt such us our politicians and banks. Those who created this debt are going to get either "beaten to death" or driven out of the country borders.

ps: I m living in Greece and I m just getting ready to hit the beach, that wont change either.

[Acro]

Video created by http://www.nomint.gr - a Greek marketing agency. You can't beat Greeks in their own game, which includes parody and the ability to utilize sarcasm during tough times.

[Bill F.]

Greece will recover better than some other countries, I think. And it will always have the beauty and (maybe) the lifestyle.

[Raider]

I had a long discussion with a Greek man that I know, he's 86 years old and served in the Pacific during World War II, One of the nicest guys you will ever want to meet... Having visited Greece many times throughout his life, he tells me that Greeks living in Greece are for the most part "lazy", Their so accustomed to the entitlements they receive that they work far less, Giving up those entitlements would mean working more and producing something, which many are not willing to do.

[Acro]

Completely wrong assumption. Please don't make me go dig stats again showing Greeks work harder than Germans for less pay. Tell the old man that unless he was born in Greece his mentality is American.

[Raider]

Completely wrong assumption. Please don't make me go dig stats again showing Greeks work harder than Germans for less pay. Tell the old man that unless he was born in Greece his mentality is American.

He was born in Greece, came here with his parents before the war broke out. He goes to Greece about every other year now.. I was a bit thrown back by what he said, not because I didn't think it was true but because it was a Greek telling me this, All the Greeks I know here in the US are hardworking and very successful.. Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants and one is a Superior Court Judge.

Not sure what stats you have Theo, but you cant ignore the fact that Germany has money and Greece doesn't. Their one of the major countries bailing out Greece remember?...... I'd really like to know your opinion of the IMF bailing out Greece, many don't like the conditions set by Germany and other Countries, what about you? Or do you think Greece should default?

[Acro]

Ask your husband about the Greek mentality, he's Cypriot, right?

There is no relation between the "My big Fat Greek wedding" crowd and Greece of the past 40 years. Those that haven't lived in Greece in the past 10-15 years even have no idea about how hard it is to manage a family of say 4 on 800 euro a month. The Greeks don't have to pay for the failed investment of banks that bought Greek bonds after Goldman Sachs engineered the affirmation that Greece was A-OK to join the Eurozone in 2001. If someone must pay, that's the Greek politicians, and that's what is happening right now (but the US media don't report it).

The stats link, from a German source no less: http://www.thelocal.de/society/20110605-35467.html

[Makis77]

I dont want insult your friend but things have changed these past 25 yrs.
Greeks are nothing like that old man described, stereotypes are loved by the media and people without any cultural background but that doesnt mean they are true all the time.

If you want to go deeper Greece when industrial revolution broke was under Turkish "administration" making it very hard following this new world, when Turks left we had the world wars 1 and 2, with great losses, and just after that we have a civil war. Then we had 15 yrs of peace then in the 70's we had dictators run our country. Democracy was restored in late 70's.
Just think all these facts for a moment and let me know if we are the same as Germany(which I respect the most for being No1 in Europe after Hitler ruined them).

You must also have in mind that Europe is not a solid and balanced entity, for example look how countries near the Mediterranean sea are doing like Greece, Italy and Spain. Those countries weren't ready when industrial revolution broke while their cities where already organized very differently than new cities of North and Central Europe making it very hard to create asty-enviroments.

I had a long discussion with a Greek man that I know, he's 86 years old and served in the Pacific during World War II, One of the nicest guys you will ever want to meet... Having visited Greece many times throughout his life, he tells me that Greeks living in Greece are for the most part "lazy", Their so accustomed to the entitlements they receive that they work far less, Giving up those entitlements would mean working more and producing something, which many are not willing to do.

[Banned: dn-101]

Philippines, on the other hand, pays workers less than mainland China. It manages to survive economically only thanks to the massive US cash infusion.

[Raider]

Ask your husband about the Greek mentality, he's Cypriot, right?

Having been born in the US, I doubt he would know... Cypriot on his Fathers side, Grandparents on his Mothers side were from Constantinople... Most of the discussions I have is with people at the Greek Church and his Family.. I learned very early on that Greek people are genuinely wonderful people personally, but they can also be loud, HOT tempered and stubborn, I find them to be Conservative, smart and very wise, Very good with finances too, always emphasizing the importance of a good education.. It's no wonder why most of them are successful and live comfortable lifestyles.

The Greeks don't have to pay for the failed investment of banks that bought Greek bonds after Goldman Sachs engineered the affirmation that Greece was A-OK to join the Eurozone in 2001. If someone must pay, that's the Greek politicians, and that's what is happening right now (but the US media don't report it).

The Greek politicians should pay? how the hell are they going to do that? they cant pay for it and they cant print the money.. Unfortunately, the people are ALWAYS the ones who end up flipping the bill for the Failures of their own Government. The problem I have with Greece is their reluctance to comply with the IMF measures, I don't think most of the austerity measures are that unreasonable when you consider the 45 Billion Euros Greece is asking for.

Austerity measures;

*Reduce the budget deficit from 13.6% to 3% by 2014
*Pay freeze on all public sector employees
*Scrapping the annual bonus scheme (basically a 20% bonus on wages)
*Increase in the retirement age from the current one of 62
*Full pension rights increased from minimum 37 to 40 years service
*Pensions to reflect average rather than final salary in the public sector
*VAT from 21% to 23%, increases to alcohol, cigarettes and fuel taxation
*Taxing of illegal construction
*Privatization of various state and semi-state bodies


As for Goldman Sachs, they should be "hung" for cooking the books;
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...6634,00.htmled

Don't expect them to be charged with any wrong doing, Goldman has been been in the sack with Obama for quite a long time, Funneling nearly a Million dollars to his 2008 campaign.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/co...&cid=N00009638

I dont want insult your friend but things have changed these past 25 yrs. Greeks are nothing like that old man described, stereotypes are loved by the media and people without any cultural background but that doesnt mean they are true all the time.

When he made that statement we were discussing the public sector employees and the entitlements they receive, It did not apply to ALL Greeks... That would be ludicrous.

[Acro]

Simple: Ουκ αν λάβοις παρά του μη έχοντος.

It's an ancient Greek phrase that states, you cannot collect from those that don't have.

Goldman Sachs and Moody's continue to play games on the back of Greece and the euro; it's a strategy of large financial banks (aka "banksters") to collect huge returns from betting on the default of nations. Greece was used as a guinea pig due to its unique geopolitical background and history; some involvement of Greek politicians (e.g. treason) is to be considered.

When the time comes, it will be Bastille time for those that sold the Greeks to the bazaars of Europe.

[Gerry]

When the time comes, it will be Bastille time for those that sold the Greeks to the bazaars of Europe.

Ooo...Chop! Chop! NEXT!

---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------

Honestly, I think the euro is the greatest mistake made in the world. You can not have different cultures, markets, governments, and economies interdependent on each other. Bravo for UK keeping the pound.

The biggest loser in the terms of euro was Germany. The had the strongest currency, markets, and economy when the euro went into play. Suddenly it was that market basically carrying the wealth and fortitude of the entire economy in Europe.

It is hard to put it into words but it was similar to your parents remarrying and suddenly you had step brothers and step sisters moving in and sharing everything.

[Acro]

Germany actually benefited from the euro and it's still along with France the Europe's strongest economy. The UK kept the pound and remained extremely expensive; millions of people live there below poverty levels, while illegal immigration, disease and crime are rampant. The issue with Greece stems from the transition from the drachma to the euro; items that cost 50 drachmas were priced at 50 cents of a euro overnight; with the exchange rate being a fixed 350 drachmas to the euro that meant the cost tripled, all while wages remained frozen. Greece became an expensive destination for tourists. Despite what many people think, Greeks still manage well with their finances despite the austerity measures. I'd like to see Americans manage on $800 per month per household. Millions of euros in funds have been literally eaten up by corrupt politicians and their cronies. The Greek church is also in possession of mythical assets and wealth. Seriously, when election time comes in 2012 whoever takes over can't but undo the agreements currently with the EU with regards to the high rate loans. The banksters are getting ready now to minimize their losses; after all, they have made in interest more than what is owed.

[Seraphim]

God help Poland if it ditches the relatively strong and stable Złoty and adopts the sinking Euro. The currency transition window would be used as a tool for massive wealth expropriation schemes. It would actually be massive wealth expropriation phase II, as the 1989 Balcerowicz Plan here financially ruined millions of Poles overnight.

[Banned: dn-101]

As painful as European integration is, it's still better than the fractious Continent it was, the Continent that was the birthplace of the two WW's and thousands of other wars in previous 2 millennia.

[Gerry]

I love history and art. One of the most fractured societies ever is the country of Italy. It was not even a unified county until mid-late 1800's.

I know Greek history is also full of Greek vs. Greek spats and wars (well, they are part of Greek now) but keeping up with all the city states/empires/names of countries then, etc, regarding Italy is pretty chaotic.

Italy was all lesser wars and spats and not as infamous as Spartan, Corinthians, and so on.

[Acro]

Fu** the economy, ouzo and retsina for all Opa!

[Banned: dn-101]

I remember my family arrived to Thessaloniki by boat. As we walked from the port toward the city the buildings started collapsing on us. I thought it was it was one of those Disney tricks, till I saw dead bodies pile up.
Aren't they suppose to warn you: fasten your seat belt - the sh!t is coming ?

[lordbyroniv]

http://themeanoldinvestor.blogspot.c...ye-greece.html