Greek referendum will be on December 4th

[Bill Roy]

Following the meeting between Papandreou (Greek Prime Minister) and Merkel (German Chancellor) and Sarkozy (French President) Mr. Papandreou has announced he thinks the referendum can be held on December 4th.

Basically the situation now is that Greece will not get any more aid until after the referendum, and only if the referendum gets a positive vote on accepting the imposed measures.

Italian Cabinet today approved the measures that was suggested by them at the summit meeting last week. Well that is the same measures that were ridiculed last week, so get ready for a repeat with Italy (although I doubt the Italians will be given a say). I think the Eurocrats will be polishing mirrors over the next few months and trying to explain to the world why Italy, Spain, and Portugal are really 'strong' economies that can be trusted.

If the polls show that the Greeks will not adopt the financial package from last weeks summit watch the Euro drop, if polls show they will then the Euro MAY make a teetering recovery for a short period - but always be unstable over the coming months because of the inbuilt weaknesses within the currency.

[CureCancer]

who cares

[Bill Roy]

CureCancer, if you deal internationally then you should, or if you have sites that rely on visitors who spend money (whether in the US or anywhere) then you should as it will affect your visitors and the amount of money they have to spend. If you park your domains then you should care because this will affect world markets and companies. In other words only an isolationist would not care, but then again I do not know of any North Koreans on this forum.

[PRED]

who cares

oh, a few hundred million people, that's all
I can understand you have other things to worry about
The amero and fema camps
And yes, I know you're in Canada

[CureCancer]

Hmmm

[PRED]

the euro zone was a bad idea to begin with and its only going to get worst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't agree more my friend. hundreds of millions in Europe feel the same way now and 20/30 years ago. vast majority always against it

has been planned and operations running since '48

The people have never had a say. that's changing. I actually think the referendum by the Greek pm was a masterstroke, if you really think about it

[Acro]

Thank you for summarizing the headlines of newspapers and other blood-thirsty media for us.

Care to share your thesis on the euro, e.g. would you bet on the demise of the Eurozone or you simply enjoy virtual fights Colosseum style?

Incidentally, the true faces of Merkel and Sarkozy are shown now: they attach the result of the referendum to the staying or departure of Greece from the Eurozone. The Greeks will issue a gigantic fυck you to the self-appointed dynasts, both domestic and foreign ones.

In essence, Papandreou passed the buck onto the Greek voters in a very sleuth manner. German publication "Spiegel" has a great article at http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soz...795189,00.html titled "Bravo, Herr Papandreou!"

Following the meeting between Papandreou (Greek Prime Minister) and Merkel (German Chancellor) and Sarkozy (French President) Mr. Papandreou has announced he thinks the referendum can be held on December 4th.

Basically the situation now is that Greece will not get any more aid until after the referendum, and only if the referendum gets a positive vote on accepting the imposed measures.

Italian Cabinet today approved the measures that was suggested by them at the summit meeting last week. Well that is the same measures that were ridiculed last week, so get ready for a repeat with Italy (although I doubt the Italians will be given a say). I think the Eurocrats will be polishing mirrors over the next few months and trying to explain to the world why Italy, Spain, and Portugal are really 'strong' economies that can be trusted.

If the polls show that the Greeks will not adopt the financial package from last weeks summit watch the Euro drop, if polls show they will then the Euro MAY make a teetering recovery for a short period - but always be unstable over the coming months because of the inbuilt weaknesses within the currency.

[urlurl]

im really interested to see what the outcome is. but no matter what is done the world economies will be walking on eggshells for a few years.

no matter what country you are in, it will have a ripple and affect (infect) everyone - the only difference is some will be more affected than others.

[Bill Roy]

Acro, I have read the Spiegel article you refer to, however I totally disagree with its conclusions. Contagion is now a greater threat than a year ago, ask the Italians who are now having to pay record high interest for instance.

Acro I should also point out I merely reported the facts and my comments with them, which I am sure everyone on here can tell what is fact and what is opinion. I also note that at the moment there seems to be no legal move to have the referendum classed as unlawful or anti-constitutional as you had indicated in another thread.

I personally think that Papandreou's spokesperson saying the referendum would be solely about the implementation of the austerity package demanded at last weeks summit and subsequently Merkel's demand that the referendum is about Greece's membership of Euro has led to a complete disaster about to occur for the Euro. It is not up to any foreign government to dictate what the citizens or subjects of another nation should vote on, indeed I would have thought that was about the worst mistake Merkel could have made, I can imagine cartoons of German soldiers marching over the Greek border with a picture of Merkel in the background now, not a wise political move I would have thought on her part.

Anyway, I like you and others on this forum have our own opinions, and we shall continue to express them politely and openly debate them.

[Acro]

The Greek constitution is clearly being abused by George Papandreou and his cabinet; which will be held responsible eventually for the travesty of how he handled the economic crisis. This is the last straw for many Greeks, the majority of which are law-abiding, tax-paying (read: blood-drained) citizens. The move by Papandreou to put the weight of a critical decision onto the shoulders of the average Greek is despicable and unlawful. The pseudo-socialist Papandreou upon being elected in October of 2009 declared that "there is plenty of money" and then changed the tune.

The German press in the recent past has been very derogatory about Greece and its finances. The biggest problem right now is the handling of a critical situation by a dangerous government who lied about its intentions, sold the country to the "troika" and the Eurozone cronies and is prepared to sell land and water to the barbarians. This is the "knife to the bone" of John Greek who is now being summoned to clean the Augean stables an elected government could not manage.

The outlook in Greece is for the government to fail in its quest to get a vote of confidence on Friday, by having members of its parliament force declare their refusal to vote for the measures. The government needs 151 votes out of a possible 300; it currently holds 152 seats after several "leaks".

The members of the parliament that maintain a conscience will now have to vote "No", thus bringing the government down which will lead Greece to imminent elections within 2 weeks. The socialists will be booted and the conservatives will most likely assume power. The conservatives are now able to show how much they can work for the country.

In that sense, I expect a lot of social changes in Greece, including a period of social unrest. It is clear that the recent removal of the heads of the military by the minister of defense was made preemptively in order to ensure that no military intervention would take place.

Acro, I have read the Spiegel article you refer to, however I totally disagree with its conclusions. Contagion is now a greater threat than a year ago, ask the Italians who are now having to pay record high interest for instance.

Acro I should also point out I merely reported the facts and my comments with them, which I am sure everyone on here can tell what is fact and what is opinion. I also note that at the moment there seems to be no legal move to have the referendum classed as unlawful or anti-constitutional as you had indicated in another thread.

I personally think that Papandreou's spokesperson saying the referendum would be solely about the implementation of the austerity package demanded at last weeks summit and subsequently Merkel's demand that the referendum is about Greece's membership of Euro has led to a complete disaster about to occur for the Euro. It is not up to any foreign government to dictate what the citizens or subjects of another nation should vote on, indeed I would have thought that was about the worst mistake Merkel could have made, I can imagine cartoons of German soldiers marching over the Greek border with a picture of Merkel in the background now, not a wise political move I would have thought on her part.

Anyway, I like you and others on this forum have our own opinions, and we shall continue to express them politely and openly debate them.

[Gerry]

In that sense, I expect a lot of social changes in Greece, including a period of social unrest. It is clear that the recent removal of the heads of the military by the minister of defense was made preemptively in order to ensure that no military intervention would take place.

Could get nasty out there.

[whitebark]

The people of Greece need to only look at the situation Argentina found itself in just a short number of years ago - there was plenty of doom and gloom projected but it never happened and now Argentina is doing much better than had they accepted the IMF me-first stipulations. They are a fair comparison considering their economies are nearly the same size. They stood their ground and the rest is history.

Let the creditors eat cake. The world will survive.

I would like to hear from citizens of Germany and France in regards to their national treasures being siphoned off to cover the bad debt of another country. If only the citizens of those nations too got a chance to vote in a referendum about the role of their own countries. I suspect Germany and France wouldn't be handing money to anyone if that were the case.

[Acro]

Could get nasty out there.

For those that live far away and only see pictures of 300 anarchists throwing rocks among tear gas clashes with the police, that's scary in an artificial way. The social unrest I'm referring to is different: poverty, famine, fear and the loss of faith.

Greece needs a leader with balls instead of old school politicians with no vision and no long-term plan.

[Gerry]

The social unrest I'm referring to is different: poverty, famine, fear and the loss of faith.

Perhaps a precursor of what is to come for those outside of Greece as well.

[Acro]

The Greeks have survived 400 years of Ottoman rule; they will survive this as well. But not a piece of land will be sold to pay off any type of debt, mark my words.

[lordbyroniv]

The Greeks have survived 400 years of Ottoman rule; they will survive this as well. But not a piece of land will be sold to pay off any type of debt, mark my words.

I pray you are right.

These E.U. technocrats are animals that need be shot. Starting with Herman Von Rompuy

[Bill Roy]

I am in two minds as to whether the Greek government will fall this Friday, I think it is a distinct possibility but that it is 'too close to call' as the tv pundits say.

I would actually agree in some high degree with White Bark above about the comparison with Argentina. Indeed I think that may well be at the forefront of many Greek politicians minds at the moment. Yes I do foresee social turmoil in Greece no matter what way the votes this Friday (no-confidence motion) and in the referendum.

I would like to add a further personal opinion and that is that if Greece votes 'No' to the austerity package then the balance in Europe changes, Germany and France are so heavily committed to the Euro that they will in the long run be the losers with more power being realised by the smaller countries. Greece will undoubtedly leave the Euro and survive, and indeed may well prosper, and in this situation other smaller countries within the Eurozone will realise that the threat of economic hell should any country not toe the Franco-German line will be much diminished and that they could declare independence at any time from the Euro.

[Acro]

There is nothing wrong with the euro. The problem lies with the speculation games played on national debt bonds. The Eurozone woke up too late facing the Greek crisis with no safety mechanism in place. So now it's like a house made of straw. To turn the Eurozone into a house of reinforced concrete, Greece will have to be the fall guy - the scapegoat. In the eyes of the world, that would be defeat. In the eyes of Greeks, this will be salvation from the old methods and practices. A phoenix is reborn from its own ashes.

[urlurl]

yes a phoenix may be born - but no one will lend money to it - and if they did it would have a huge premium - rates so high it would be impossible to pay back

what do you think happens when people go bankrupt

would you buy greek bonds now?

[PRED]

essential viewing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5aWCuB2XA&feature=fvst

a microcosm of whats been going on, but the contagion of corruption has ust spread through europe like paint in water
worst culprits the usual suspects
governments, corrupt officials, mayors, mafia, gangs etc

and joe bloggs is pissing all their hard earned money down the toilet paying for it

a major revolution is the only way. people power
let's kick ass