Health Care Bill Passes

[Anthony Ng]

What does this have to do with race? WOW! You really can't let go of that angle, can you?

If you're not comfortable with African Americans (for whatever reason), perhaps we could use the Person's Case (of Canada) as an example. (Please don't tell me you can't even bear with women either.) Yes, women were not considered "persons". The point is, some rights which are universally accepted even by the most stubborn today were once vigorously opposed by many who THOUGHT they were defending the untouchable.

[Seraphim]

If you're not comfortable with African Americans (for whatever reason), perhaps we could use the Person's Case (of Canada) as an example. (Please don't tell me you can't even bear with women either.) Yes, women were not considered "persons". The point is, some rights which are universally accepted even by the most stubborn today were once vigorously opposed by many who THOUGHT they were defending the untouchable.

The old DNF race card. Why do I bother with these threads. Have fun with that...

[Nexus]

What does this have to do with race? WOW! You really can't let go of that angle, can you?

Honestly? It's probably the most vivid analog for where we are historically. Of course, it might not be. But, considering it could... its interesting to knote how much this debate has been made using fear-mongering tactics and not rational discussion. Early on, after encouraging open public dialog, somehow people got it into their heads that they'd prefer to shout down their elected officials and bully discussion out of the equation. I can understand why this seemed so empowering considering how the election went, but its a sad note on how civic involvement can be sidelined by mob-rule.

Also, I can appreciate how "tricky" a disussion of entitlements can be with constituents, but I wish the GOP would just keep saying how much they think Medicare is a bad idea, and not pretend that when Democrats try to fix it... that they're trying to take it away. It's really kind of nutty, and truly disingenuous on its face.

Many conservatives strongly opposed the enactment of Medicare, warning that a government-run program would lead to socialism in America:

* Ronald Reagan, as part of Operation Coffee Cup in 1961, stated that: “[I]f you don’t [stop Medicare] and I don’t do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free.”[65]

* George H. W. Bush, while a candidate for the US Senate in 1964, described Medicare as “socialized medicine.”[66]

* Barry Goldwater in 1964: “Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink.”[67]

* In 1995 Bob Dole stated that he was one of 12 House members who voted against creating Medicare in 1965. “I was there, fighting the fight, voting against Medicare ... because we knew it wouldn’t work in 1965.” [68]

~ Nexus

[Bill Roy]

BD77, we have clashed before - and I think we have a healthy respect for each other, like two old war horses who battle it out in the arena and then sit with a drink and discuss life in general whilst the sun sets, at least I hope that is how this debate is seen.

Now back to the fray!

Your post about the USofA being set up as a Republic and not a democracy. Why can a Republic not be a democracy? Were not all eligable persons given equal voting rights in the Republic? If so (however narrow that franchise was) it is then classed as a Democracy. May I point you to Ancient Greece, there were at differing times many democracies, and they were in general republics as well.

[Seraphim]

If I'm not mistaken, the decline of the Roman Empire was marked by a transition from a republic, to a democracy (mob rule), and then finally breaking apart at the hands of a series of oligarchies in the final stages. I'll have to double check my facts on that however...

The United States started out as a Republic. There are however some interesting theories in circulation as to whether or not it remains so today.

[Donald Aquilano]

appropriate comment

but we don't have to wait 30 years

as many have went back in time, like the "T party"

their behaivor is more like those granpa' and grandma's of the 50's who didn't want black children to go to school, now in 2010 they're the same kind that spit on people, hand nooses, use racial slurs, etc.

they stir the "rhetoric pot of hate and fear" then serve it up to the people thru the media

this summer is going to be hot!!!

a big "push back" is a coming

WTF? Are you ****ing kidding me dude? Why do insist on using the race card? The only push back will be on those who voted on this terrible bill. The Dems will take a beating that is for sure.

You know what the definition of Obama whore is? its you.....

An individual who accepts all Obama's publicity as good and supports everything Obama says, does, and plans to do regardless of actual merit. Thinks Obama is the savior of the world, and believes the success of human-kind and the viable future of the earth depends on Obama's every action, however insignificant it might be. Individual sees no other side of any story.

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 PM ----------

If I'm not mistaken, the decline of the Roman Empire was marked by a transition from a republic, to a democracy (mob rule), and then finally breaking apart at the hands of a series of oligarchies in the final stages. I'll have to double check my facts on that however...

The United States started out as a Republic. There are however some interesting theories in circulation as to whether or not it remains so today.

You can add promiscuity and sexual deviant behavior to the list.

[Seraphim]

If anyone wants to read the Bill, here is a link.

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

[Gerry]

The ronald reagan attributed quote?

Does anyone know what that quote is from?

That is from a record album where he was HIRED, yes, PAID to be the narrator and then distributed the records to AMA Woman’s Auxiliary members nationwide - yes, WIVES of doctors of the American Medical Association.

The Woman’s [sic] Auxiliary of the AMA was an affiliated organization composed primarily of the wives of member physicians. Its 82,000 members in 1961 undertook a variety of educational, charitable, community service, and public relations tasks on behalf of the AMA. In the Spring of 1961, the Woman’s Auxiliary was asked to launch a special high-priority initiative under the title of WHAM, Women Help American Medicine. The avowed aim of WHAM was bluntly stated as: “This campaign is aimed at the defeat of the King-Anderson bill of the 87 th Congress, a bill which would provide a system of socialized medicine for our senior citizens and seriously curtail the quality of medical care in the United States.”

The record was recorded 1961.

He was so popular in early television and had a marvelous recording voice. He was the host of General Electric Theatre which was extremely popular at the time, and then went on to host/narrate Death Valley Days.



Guess what?

There is also a recording of Orson Welles narrating/reading/performing War of The Worlds by H.G. Wells from 1938.

And we all survived that as well.

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 PM ----------

The United States started out as a Republic.

It started out as a colony.

[Seraphim]

It started out as a colony.

And before that it was a tribe, and then well before that just some trees and grass...

[H2FC]

Too bad the republicans didn't make necessary changes in health insurance when it was so badly needed. If they had done that and a lot of other things that should have been changed long ago this country wouldn't be in the bad shape its in now.

[500,000]

...

[Gerry]

So... When you have a new born. Do you have to pay for the Babies Forced Health Care Tax?

No, but you do have to INVOLUNTARILY (and unbeknowst to many parents) have blood drawn from the infant to be entered into a national DNA database.

Now, what might some one do with the blood of a new born infant?

Well, gee...possibly rule out insuring that infant in the future because they are marked (per genomics) to have the carrier gene for breast cancer?

Hey, don't blame me.

But you might want to address this with your congressman...S. 1858: Newborn Screening Saves Lives Act of 2007.

Amazing how some of these things just don't get the attention they deserve.

So someone go figure how this information is 100% guaranteed to remain secure and to NEVER be held against not only the newborn but also the parents.

Gee, imagine what one disc with 10 of millions of results could do falling into the hands of insurance companies.



I mean, seriously, where the hell were all you people when this type of crap was going on? Creating a national DNA database and not having the option to opt out? Tell me how it is going to used for the betterment of society and blah, blah, blah. This is a program funded with taxpayers dollars yet many of you are against taxpayer dollars paying for the very child that they are testing?

You same conspiracy whackos should just have a field day with that one.

[Creature]

You same conspiracy whackos should just have a field day with that one.

Yes that could happen I suppose, a dna disc being used by insurance companies to refuse insurance. Why must you label something that makes sense 'a conspiracy theory'?

From here it looks like the American people have walked into another giant elephant trap.

[biggedon]

WTF? Are you ****ing kidding me dude? Why do insist on using the race card? The only push back will be on those who voted on this terrible bill. The Dems will take a beating that is for sure.

You know what the definition of Obama whore is? its you.....

An individual who accepts all Obama's publicity as good and supports everything Obama says, does, and plans to do regardless of actual merit. Thinks Obama is the savior of the world, and believes the success of human-kind and the viable future of the earth depends on Obama's every action, however insignificant it might be. Individual sees no other side of any story.

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 PM ----------



You can add promiscuity and sexual deviant behavior to the list.

Hi bd77

this will be your one and only warning:

please don't ever address me as in that fashion again...


i have not nor have i ever, used such characterizations towards you.





there is no such thing as a "race card", nor can one play it...like you're an actor on stage

for minorities, you are always who you are, there is no playing when it comes to race.

the t-party and the republican party, has tried to condemn minorities from using the discriminatory pratices that are constantly used as barriers against them in this society...as reasonable arguments.

one can no longer claim his or her skin color as a reason for being mistreated, yet those who victimized gays can be charged with hate crimes.

race is still very much a factor, whether or not you want to admit it

this society is not color-blind and the if t-party can spew and stir the racial hatred pot, then race and all the cards of the deck can certainly be introduced into the argument.

imo...

[Gerry]

Why must you label something that makes sense 'a conspiracy theory'?

Well, you have a point because it does make sense. And even before this law went into effect, that was the most commonly expressed fear (or conspiracy).

[Donald Aquilano]

Hi bd77

this will be your one and only warning:

please don't ever address me as in that fashion again...


i have not nor have i ever, used such characterizations towards you.





there is no such thing as a "race card", nor can one play it...like you're an actor on stage

for minorities, you are always who you are, there is no playing when it comes to race.

the t-party and the republican party, has tried to condemn minorities from using the discriminatory pratices that are constantly used as barriers against them in this society...as reasonable arguments.

one can no longer claim his or her skin color as a reason for being mistreated, yet those who victimized gays can be charged with hate crimes.

race is still very much a factor, whether or not you want to admit it

this society is not color-blind and the if t-party can spew and stir the racial hatred pot, then race and all the cards of the deck can certainly be introduced into the argument.

imo...

You need to develop thicker skin if me calling you an obama whore is so offensive that you would threaten. Race is used by your side anytime someone criticizes Obama. We call you out on it and you get upset. I never going to tip toe around the issue like so many others do. I get sick and tired of people complaining about racism. Everyone who has ever come to this country has had to deal with it not just black Americans.

Getting back to the tea party I'm sure you'll find in any political movement some who still harbor racial hatred towards others but that is the nature of society. You act like all tea party members are racists which is far from the truth. The tea party stands for limited government, minimal taxes and strictly following the Constitution. Nothing racist about that.

[biggedon]

You need to develop thicker skin if me calling you an obama whore is so offensive that you would threaten. Race is used by your side anytime someone criticizes Obama. We call you out on it and you get upset. I never going to tip toe around the issue like so many others do. I get sick and tired of people complaining about racism. Everyone who has ever come to this country has had to deal with it not just black Americans.

Getting back to the tea party I'm sure you'll find in any political movement some who still harbor racial hatred towards others but that is the nature of society. You act like all tea party members are racists which is far from the truth. The tea party stands for limited government, minimal taxes and strictly following the Constitution. Nothing racist about that.

Hi

first of all, you shouldn't be calling me by any other name, than my user name or real name

you replies in this thread, should not be made in an effort to "offend" anyone, but to attact the argument or the issues.

you can't call me whatever you like and think i should just take it or have thick skin, you address me how i want to be addressed and show me the respect that i have shown you.


now to your points, black americans are the only people who did NOT come to this country originally of their own will.

until you remember that and keep understanding the ramifications that still exists today because of slavery and institutionized racism, then you will never fully understand the plight of black americans or what persons of color have to endure.

[Gerry]

I think we are about 2, most likely 3, generations away from wiping out racism for the most part.

That means people like my mother's generation, my generation (baby boomers), and perhaps what would be my children's age group die off, racism (for the most part) would be less of an issue.

Until then, racism is something we are going to have to deal with and deal with.

Discrimination of any form is still being brought to the front.

And when a white male of my age looks and sees what is going on and spots racism, its racism and racist comments. Taking the hood off and joining a group of people to protest openly does not mean it is less of a racist issue.


I have to laugh every time I see footage of these tea party rallies. What I see, for the most part, is a mass of very out of shape, obese, unfit white people protesting, shouting, and screaming. This group, more than anyone, NEEDS healthcare. Seriously, I would bet my last dollar that 50% or more HAVE NO insurance of any type but would not think twice of going into the emergency room for standard routine care or actual emergency care. From the perspective of a healthcare professional and former smoker like myself, I look at that crowd of out of shape people huffing and puffing on cigarettes and I can only think of two words - JOB SECURITY!

[barefoot]

black americans are the only people who did NOT come to this country originally of their own will.

False.

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/...-white-slaves/

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...es.html?cat=37

[Gerry]

It is true. Black americans were NOT the only people who came to this country of their own free will.

History has shown that even the early colonies of Jamestown and Roanoke Island had indentured servants and apprentices.

I do think that biggies intentions were meant to illustrate how a race en masse was brought to this country for the sole purpose of slavery and servitude.

I am not trying to put words in biggie's mouth. But I get what he is saying - as a race and group, blacks were not brought here (the US) willingly.