Health Care Bill Passes

[tas38]

The insurance incs will makes lots more money while forcing our doctors and us, to do or not do what ever the case may be to save them money, medicare and medicaid plans already are doing that to some degree.

The state and fed gov't tells them what they will pay them, that means when they need funds they will cut how much they pay them, and the plans will push harder and harder rules to cut cost, plus plans are there to make money as much as they can.

[thevirtual]

This bill is the worst bill we could get. All thanks to the shameless Democrats and shameful Republicans in office.

[JMJ]

The following is how the HMO's actually got off the ground and it was never for your own good. We believe that the American public has been mislead. Please follow the following two web links to learn more about what took place between President Nixon, John Erlichman and how Edgar Kaiser played a role in the creation of the HMO.

Presented at the Miller Center of Public Affairs - University of Virginia - White House Tapes.org
http://www.whitehousetapes.org/pages..._tapes_rmn.htm

The transcription has been mirrored on this site because of its relevance to Kaiser Permanente being a for-profit corporation which is contrary to what they have publicly claimed to the rest of the world. We cannot imagine what further proof anyone in this world would need to have presented that Kaiser is a for-profit corporation.

We also believe that listening to this tape will more clearly explain how Kaiser has manipulated our government and the public into believing an untruth. It appears that President Nixon knowing full well that Kaiser was not being honest with their presentation of the HMO thought he was using this to his advantage. Unfortunately it has taken decades for this to become public knowledge which is a shame. President Nixon knew from the time of this conversation that Kaiser was for-profit and he also knew that they are able to profit because -- "All the incentives are toward less medical care, because—the less care they give them, the more money they make." - Mr. Erlichman quoting Edgar Kaiser to President Nixon on February 17, 1971

Other references in the Nixon tapes to Edgar Kaiser are:
Converstion 705
RC. 2028-1
April 10, 1972 - Oval Office

Conversation 706
RC. 2034-1
April 11, 1972 - Oval Office

There is also a Kaiser reference that I do not know if it relates to Edgar or another unrelated Kaiser
Conversation 663
RC. 1762
February 1, 1972


The following transcription is mirrored here from the University of Virginia because of the interest to The Justice Department the Internal Revenue Service and the American public. Again I refer everyone to: http://www.whitehousetapes.org/pages..._tapes_rmn.htm
for the clearest possible presentation.

February 17, 1971
5:26 pm - 5:53 pm
Oval Office
Conversation 450-23

John D. Ehrlichman: On the—on the health business—

President Nixon: Yeah.

Ehrlichman: —we have now narrowed down the vice president's problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser's Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, “Well, I don't think they'll work, but if the president thinks it's a good idea, I'll support him a hundred percent.”

President Nixon: Well, what's—what's the judgment?

Ehrlichman: Well, everybody else's judgment very strongly is that we go with it.

President Nixon: All right.

Ehrlichman: And, uh, uh, he's the one holdout that we have in the whole office.

President Nixon: Say that I—I—I'd tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it's, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I'm not to keen on any of these damn medical programs.

Ehrlichman: This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am—

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: This—this is a—

President Nixon: I don't [unclear]—

Ehrlichman: —private enterprise one.

President Nixon: Well, that appeals to me.

Ehrlichman: Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can—the reason he can do it—I had Edgar Kaiser come in—talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because—

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: —the less care they give them, the more money they make.

President Nixon: Fine. [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: [Unclear] and the incentives run the right way.

President Nixon: Not bad.


Tape at:
http://whitehousetapes.org/pages/listen_tapes_rmn.htm
you need to look for:
tape rmn_e450c
It is 12 MGS if using Windows Media Player


The very next day Mr. Nixon had a message for Congress proposing a National Health Strategy. Read what he said on February 18, 1971:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/print.php?pid=3311

and mirrored here for historical purposes and in the event the content is taken down by the americanpresidency.org for any reason:

http://businesspractices.kaiserpaper...nonkaiser.html

[fab]

Here's a nice video about the topic - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkfd2l1r1wo

[Donald Aquilano]

Here's a nice video about the topic - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkfd2l1r1wo

Great video. Thanks for the post.

[Raider]

This bill is the worst bill we could get. All thanks to the shameless Democrats and shameful Republicans in office.

How do you figure the Republicans are to blame when not one Republican voted for it?

What's really shameless is the back room deals, Bribing congressmen with hundreds of millions of OUR tax dollars to vote YES on a bill the majority of Americans DONT want.. Threatening congressmen if they vote against it... The Senate voting on this major reform bill on the eve of Christmas, And the House of Rep. passing it on a reconciliation vote, on a Sunday night of all nights.

Alll this was done AGAINST the will of the people, What arrogance the Democrats have for passing such a Bill, And they wonder why people are so angry and outraged.

Here's a nice video about the topic - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkfd2l1r1wo

Thank you for the clip.... One thing I'm confused about, Didn't Obama say at least 2 dozen times that Health Care cost will drop by as much as $2500 per family?

Or was he just throwing another bone to his dumb and gullible supporters?

[fab]

Here's another vid I'm sure you'll love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBelDe5wieU

[dmyre]

Ugh... More taxes....

The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010, which President Obama signed into law March 30, is comprehensive and complex. Section 1402, "Unearned Income Medicare Contribution," imposes a 3.8 percent tax on profits from the sale of real estate -- residential or investment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...071506964.html
http://activerain.com/blogsview/1754...-obamacare-law

[fab]

Ugh... More taxes....



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...071506964.html
http://activerain.com/blogsview/1754...-obamacare-law

I thought there was a promise of no raising of taxes for people earning under $250K, or don't the poor ever sell real estate.

[Gerry]

I thought there was a promise of no raising of taxes for people earning under $250K, or don't the poor ever sell real estate.

I would take that "new" tax with a grain of salt.

Presently, you can sell your house for a huge profit over what you paid and not have to pay taxes on it.

I may be off a tad here, but as long as your PROFITS from selling your primary residence totals LESS THAN 500K IN TOTAL PROFITS, you pay no tax on that. In other words, if you paid 250K for a house, put an additiional 150 over the years into renovations and sold you house for $750K, you net is $350K (basis) and you do not pay tax on that amount. If you sell for $950K, then your net gain is 600K and you would owe taxes on that.

But, even if you make 200K but after all deductions and itemizations and losses etc, then you have an adjusted gross income of less than 200K.

Its complicated but it is all there for anyone to read.

So, when someone tells me about a new tax and how it affects a certain level of income, look at the BIG picture and not just the single issue. Tax laws are so damn complicated and confusing. And it is never as simple as one little new change. It is necessary to know what the one little change affects the entire tax code before it goes into effect.

This is why real estate has and is STILL a hell of an investment. I have never bought houses to resell, just undeveloped prime land.

And this is why everyone went absolutely nuts with flipping properties. As long as you bought a house/condo and flipped it for less than $500K profit, you owed no taxes providing you kept it for the specified amount of time.

But people did not mind paying taxes on $500K+ when you had that sizable profit. You paid the tax, moved on, bought your next place, flipped it, paid taxes, moved on, bought your next place and then suddenly

KABOOM!

housing bubble burst.

[fab]

I didn't actually read the article. So missed those points.

[Gerry]

I didn't actually read the article. So missed those points.

Well, those points were not in the article. That is something the blogger selectively chose to omit.

Lets face it, people are going to slant things the way they want to.

Those tidbits of information is what I wanted to add to illustrate how slanted that blog post was.

The home exclusion is $250,000/$500,000 for single/joint filers.

Lets face it, if you make more money, you pay taxes on it. That's the simple truth no matter who you are or what you do.

So, the point is if you know you are going to have an adjusted gross >200K, a person should look at the options they have to reduce their capital gains and tax burden.

Home ownership is absolutely one of the best tax shelters Americans have available to them.

[dmyre]

...Home ownership is absolutely one of the best tax shelters Americans have available to them...

That's not necessarily true. The house that Marilyn Monroe passed away in was purchased by her in 1962 for $90,000. It was recently listed for sale with an asking price of $3.6M. Based on the current list price, the propety taxes would be approx $45k per year.

[Gerry]

That's not necessarily true. The house that Marilyn Monroe passed away in was purchased by her in 1962 for $90,000. It was recently listed for sale with an asking price of $3.6M. Based on the current list price, the propety taxes would be approx $45k per year.

So, if you could afford $3.6 million house you could not afford the taxes?

That's a terrible consequence of being wealthy.

[dmyre]

I know I wouldn't want to buy a $90k house, and have my taxes creep up to $45k/yr...

[Gerry]

I know I wouldn't want to buy a $90k house, and have my taxes creep up to $45k/yr...

So you would not buy a house for 90K and have it jump in value to $3.6M?

You're okay with no equity or lose of equity?

Of course, you're no Marliyn Monroe

[dmyre]

The equity is ideal, but the increase in taxes are simply insane.
Now, if I were aging and on a fixed income, I would rather own my house free and clear.

[Gerry]

The equity is ideal, but the increase in taxes are simply insane.
Now, if I were aging and on a fixed income, I would rather own my house free and clear.

The tax valuation is a game.

The house taxes NOW are 45K because obviously it is on the market for an amount that calculates to that valuation.

If a person buys it, there is an outside chance it could get on a registry for state and national historical places and there would be big tax breaks.

But that is an entirely new matter and more political red tape.

[500,000]

...

[Gerry]

I signed up comunistcrap@yahoo.com

Shame the geniuses that started that site misspelled communist.