Joe Legal & Jose Illegal

[Seraphim]

But how does one 'help' a country (any country) that is actually rich in resources, get 1% of the population pockets the wealth via bribes and corruption, and the remaining 99% is under the influence of religious wackjobs (in this case the Catholic church) who encourage extreme overpopulation, the squandering of resources, and forces them to STAY poor?

Every Central American country (and most South American) is has the same problem, just different names at the top of the corruption pyramid.

The only thing that can be done is to invade and install new leaders, but if the are part of the same CULTURE of corruption, all of you have done is change the name of the man at the top of the corruption pyramid, and nothing else changes. This was what the US did over the past few decades in Nicaragua, Iran, and others.... gee, how did that turn out?

Throwing money (or food) at a problem only strengthens the corruption...as we learned in Somalia and other parts of Africa. Remember all of the "feed the children" commercials, where Americans sent an immense amount of food and money to numerous starving countries, AND allowed religious leaders to preach to them? Guess what, 15 years later their populations in poverty have DOUBLED, nobody taught them their future depended on contraception and abortion... in fact they were told these things were 'evil'.

At this point, we have to decide that we need to look out for ourselves. People who live in corrupt countries are going to have to either live with it or band together and have their own revolution.

I agree with most of your points. When I mentioned help, I wasn't referring to foreign aid, but some serious "tough love" type of solutions. The unsustainable demographic growth rates in places like Mexico, India, Africa, etc, should be much more of a priority for the developed world than global warming. We cannot maintain stable and sustainable civilizations while being absolutely swamped by economically driven refugees, and we SHOULD NOT allow ourselves to become a population overflow valve for the reckless and irresponsible growth models of foreign nations. If India, Mexico, and all the other countries like them, cannot support their own populations, then it's time to stop breeding like rabbits. These countries should be shamed by the rest of the world for what they're doing.

I don't however believe these problems will be addressed by governments without first seeing a massive dose of civil unrest, or possibly some Balkans style conflict. It's spilling into the streets in Europe as we speak, as Islam takes over the continent. Tensions are obviously extremely high in the US as well. I am absolutely certain that we will see some serious bloodshed over it all. It's very sad, but that's what it's going to take to teach Europe and the United States to learn how to say "no, stay in your own country".

And I should mention that I'm not talking about regular immigration here, nor am I opposed to that. I'm talking about the literal conquest of Europe and parts of the United States, which for the time being is still called "immigration". I have no quarrel with "real" and sustainable immigration.

[Gerry]

I would hate to see this turn into an anti-religion (akin to a racist) debate.

Corruption is driven by greed and money.

What is going on in Mexico and many Latin American countries is also going on in Africa and other nations of the world. Dictatorships or even regimes under the guise of a democracy are raping nations of natural resources and wealth.

Blaming the Catholic Church for population increases is near sightedness and does not address the problem of corruption. Mexico is being ripped apart by factions that want to control it. That can be wealth, drugs, tourism, antiquities - all of these are hot topics and sought after products of the nation.

[Seraphim]

Blaming the Catholic Church for population increases is near sightedness and does not address the problem of corruption. Mexico is being ripped apart by factions that want to control it. That can be wealth, drugs, tourism, antiquities - all of these are hot topics and sought after products of the nation.

I agree, religion isn't the cause. The demographic explosions we're seeing across the developing world are a byproduct of a variety of things, most of which boil down to out dated cultural norms (aka the large family), and lack of education. They're all hot potato issues that very few are willing to discuss publicly.

[draggar]

I could not remember the title.

The Day After? That was one of Patrick Swayze's first movies!

No, he was not in that film. I'm sure you're thinking of:

Red Dawn

Which was another great film.

[Gerry]

No, he was not in that film. I'm sure you're thinking of:



Which was another great film.

Red Dawn is the one I was thinking of with Patrick

[Raider]

Most of us who break Federal laws are punished and prosecuted to the full extent of the law, But for illegal Aliens who ignore our laws, Government rewards them with Social services, Medical care and Education, which all cost money, Money that is withdrawn from a tax system they pay nothing into, except of course sales taxes for small dollar purchases...

Will our President do anything about it? Not a chance, his bid for re-election is far more important than that.

[JuniperPark]

I agree, religion isn't the cause. The demographic explosions we're seeing across the developing world are a byproduct of a variety of things, most of which boil down to out dated cultural norms (aka the large family), and lack of education. They're all hot potato issues that very few are willing to discuss publicly.

How and why do you let religion off the hook?

Throughout Central America, poor people go into churches which then TAKE some of the little money they have, and spend the next 2 hours telling them how it's "God's Will" that they have as many children as possible, and tell them that contraceptives are evil.

And I'm putting aside for the moment the fact that leaders of THIS particular religion was responsible for 4 out of every 5 child rapes here in the US in the 1990's.

End the religious nonsense, and you're well on the way to solving the root problem.

[Seraphim]

How and why do you let religion off the hook?

Throughout Central America, poor people go into churches which then TAKE some of the little money they have, and spend the next 2 hours telling them how it's "God's Will" that they have as many children as possible, and tell them that contraceptives are evil.

And I'm putting aside for the moment the fact that leaders of THIS particular religion was responsible for 4 out of every 5 child rapes here in the US in the 1990's.

End the religious nonsense, and you're well on the way to solving the root problem.

If religion were the cause, then countries like Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, would be bursting at the seams, yet they all have negative growth rates. I know firsthand that Poland is one of the most religious countries on earth, more so than Mexico for sure.

[Raider]

How and why do you let religion off the hook?

Throughout Central America, poor people go into churches which then TAKE some of the little money they have, and spend the next 2 hours telling them how it's "God's Will" that they have as many children as possible, and tell them that contraceptives are evil.

Come on Juniper, The poor are not forced to give money to the Church, they give [UP]if[/U] they want and what they can afford. And to suggest that giving birth and not to use contraceptives is all they preach, is simply ludicrous, Have you ever been to a poor country and gone to a RC Church?.

I will never understand why so many here feel the need to trash religion every time it's mentioned.

[DomainsInc]

Come on Juniper, The poor are not forced to give money to the Church, they give [UP]if[/U] they want and what they can afford. And to suggest that giving birth and not to use contraceptives is all they preach, is simply ludicrous, Have you ever been to a poor country and gone to a RC Church?.

I will never understand why so many here feel the need to trash religion every time it's mentioned.

Many believe if they don't give they will go to "hell". Mexican catholics are so hardcore compared to many others, for whatever reason.

[JuniperPark]

Come on Juniper, The poor are not forced to give money to the Church, they give [UP]if[/U] they want and what they can afford. And to suggest that giving birth and not to use contraceptives is all they preach, is simply ludicrous, Have you ever been to a poor country and gone to a RC Church?.

I will never understand why so many here feel the need to trash religion every time it's mentioned.

YES, they ARE, even in rural areas here in the US.

If people refuse to go along with whatever religion is being shoved down their throat, they are

1) Rudely told they are going to hell
2) Shunned by others, which is a BIG deal in a small community
3) Shunned by family, or else the whole family will be shunned (see #2)
4) Will likely lose any employment (shunning by employers)

And YES, I've travelled extensively throughout the world, and I've been to every country from here to Panama. I've asked several people why they have such large families, and the answer is always the same: 'It's God's Will'.

I didn't have the heart to say, "Then God really hates you and your children. Ya might want to think twice about praying to a being that hates you".

Still want to claim they aren't being screwed over by religion?

[Seraphim]

And YES, I've travelled extensively throughout the world, and I've been to every country from here to Panama. I've asked several people why they have such large families, and the answer is always the same: 'It's God's Will'.

Give me a break. These same people are going to tell you the exact same thing if you asked them why Grandma died. What else can they say, "I was bored, so I had a lot of sex"?

[Gerry]

Will our President do anything about it? Not a chance, his bid for re-election is far more important than that.

So awesome what that last president did about it. Lets see, in office for 8 years. Oh, wait...there was something done. There was a 70 mile virtual fence erected on a 2900 mile border that cost how many hundreds of millions???

And then he got this grandiose idea of deploying national guard troops along the border. Yup, when the military and local units were so stretched...and when some families were barely able to keep their heads above water, he deploys troops along the border that were given orders not to do anything except to report any suspicious activity to the border partrol.

Raider, you are a ****ing moron. 9 months on the job and already you are wanting this to seem like a re-election issue.

I could care less if you hate me but you must hate admitting the truth even more. Your ignorance in your case may be bliss but it is, non the less, ignorance just the same.

[Raider]

YES, they ARE, even in rural areas here in the US.

If people refuse to go along with whatever religion is being shoved down their throat, they are

1) Rudely told they are going to hell
2) Shunned by others, which is a BIG deal in a small community
3) Shunned by family, or else the whole family will be shunned (see #2)
4) Will likely lose any employment (shunning by employers)

And YES, I've travelled extensively throughout the world, and I've been to every country from here to Panama. I've asked several people why they have such large families, and the answer is always the same: 'It's God's Will'.

I didn't have the heart to say, "Then God really hates you and your children. Ya might want to think twice about praying to a being that hates you".

Still want to claim they aren't being screwed over by religion?

I'm not going to get into a big religious debate with you, Having been born and raised in a poor country, I can tell you first hand that most of what your posting here is twisted rhetoric mixed in with your own blend of ignorance.

The question I asked was; have you ever gone to a poor country and attended a Catholic or Roman Catholic Church? Hard to imagine a religious hater like you would be in such a place, but I'd like to know.

And when you visited all those poor countries from here to Panama, how much charity work did you see? How many Religious groups did you bump into on your travels? Groups that board planes and fly half way across the world at their own expense to deliver food, clothing, hygiene, medical supplies, educational materials and other necessities of life to Children and Adults that desperately need it, Giving to people that they don't even know... Seen any of those?

Better yet, have you done any of that?

Will our President do anything about it? Not a chance, his bid for re-election is far more important than that.

So awesome what that last president did about it. Lets see, in office for 8 years. Oh, wait...there was something done. There was a 70 mile virtual fence erected on a 2900 mile border that cost how many hundreds of millions???

And then he got this grandiose idea of deploying national guard troops along the border. Yup, when the military and local units were so stretched...and when some families were barely able to keep their heads above water, he deploys troops along the border that were given orders not to do anything except to report any suspicious activity to the border partrol.

Raider, you are a ****ing moron. 9 months on the job and already you are wanting this to seem like a re-election issue.

I could care less if you hate me but you must hate admitting the truth even more. Your ignorance in your case may be bliss but it is, non the less, ignorance just the same.

I'm afraid the only ****ing moron here is you Doc. You've proven it time and time again, and you just proved it now.

On the immigration issue, I already posted in this thread that Bush failed in this regard and so did Clinton.. So WTF are you whining about? PLEASE Refer to post #7 OK?

Why are you always getting upset whenever somebody criticizes Obama?.... Jeez, How on earth did you manage to get your head so far up Obama's *ss?...

You seem to forget that you and every other Liberal ***hole here, spent the last 3 years trashing Bush/Cheney on everything they did, And now that the tables are turned, POOR LITTLE DOC DOESN'T LIKE IT... Well tough SH*T!

You cant take the heat Gerry?. LEAVE THE POLITICAL SECTION, because it's only going to get tougher... Your pathetic attempts to disparage my posts and deprive me of my right to Free speech on this Forum, is NOT going to work .... I'm here to stay

As for me hating you? NO, I don't "hate" anyone on this Forum, I simply despise your immature and arrogant behavior.

[ordersomething]

It's interesting to watch people who think that winning a debate on this forum will end up changing things.

You might change the mind of a handful of people, at the most.

That's it.

Armchair politicians disgust me.

If you want to change the world, go out and do it for real.

[Seraphim]

It's interesting to watch people who think that winning a debate on this forum will end up changing things.

You might change the mind of a handful of people, at the most.

That's it.

Armchair politicians disgust me.

If you want to change the world, go out and do it for real.

If you're not a fan of observation and discourse, then what in the hell are you doing in the political section of a public forum... other than contradicting yourself?

[Area52]

It's interesting to watch people who think that winning a debate on this forum will end up changing things.

You might change the mind of a handful of people, at the most.

That's it.

Armchair politicians disgust me.

If you want to change the world, go out and do it for real.

OK, the master has spoken. Shut the forum down. RIP!
TheVirtual, is that you?