Mosque at Ground Zero...

[Infoproliferati]

I don't get what the big deal is about having a mosque 2 blocks from ground zero. Not all muslims are numskulled jihadists. Every religion, group, organization or team has its bad apples.

[dmyre]

I totally agree with you, but if I lost someone close to me on 9/11, I'm sure I would feel differently.

[Banned: theinvestor]

There were muslims that died on 9/11 as well... and i'm talking about in the building.

[Acro]

Several Americans died in Japan during the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Why isn't the US creating a shrine over there?

Because there is an understanding of the sensitivities of Japan that suffered severe human loss. Why peel old wounds open?

Also, it's a shame that Obama speaks of freedom of religious practice and yet the ONLY church destroyed during the 9/11 terrorist attack is not allowed to be rebuilt, but a mosque on private property close to ground zero achieves just that.

Again, it's not a matter of right to practice religion, it's about using common sense with regards to an area filled with freshly painful memories.

[Infoproliferati]

There were muslims that died on 9/11 as well... and i'm talking about in the building.

Whoa!!! I'd not even considered the possibility. Did post media coverage of 9/11 ever stress on the fact? I don't think I've heard that until now.

[Acro]

There's an old Greek proverb: "Don't talk about rope at the hanged man's house".

Again, it's irrelevant how close to ground zero (2 blocks, 3 blocks etc) the mosque is being built. It's all about respecting the sensitivities - not to mention, the hallowed ground status - of that entire area.

[Banned: theinvestor]

Acro, i'm not going to debate this matter with you... since i don't feel it is necessary.

But... there are reasons behind every story. Everyone is acting like the mosque is being built on ground zero. It is actually not that relatively close.

I don't think it matters though... if you are trying to make it seem like the terrorist activity and the mosque have something in common then you're discriminating.

[Acro]

Actually, Obama is discriminating per my statement above. There is no question whether the 9/11 terrorists were Muslim or not. Let's not play hide and seek here. Those that oppose the building of the mosque in that particular area close to ground zero are not opposing its construction further out, they are employing common sense in the negotiations, something that the mosque officials are unwilling to do.

[Banned: theinvestor]

I am not sure we are really talking about the same thing...

A terrorist is a terrorist...just because they were Muslim it does not mean that all muslims are terrorists.

Would you be talking this way if they were catholics?

What about the population of American citizens that are muslim in NEW YORK? They are not allowed a place of worship now?? I mean let's get down to it ...if that's what it has to come to.

[Acro]

First of all, the issue is not Muslim religion, it's whether the representation of it in an area that was attacked by a Muslim faction shows sensitivity or not.

Why don't you mention the Muslims that lost relatives in the 9/11 attack and they too oppose the building of the mosque, in a clear display of alliance?

The mosque is planned to be built 2 blocks from where WTC stood. How can you say it's not close enough to ground zero?

And again. I want to see Obama get his facts straight; because when he talks double dutch on cameras about "freedom of religious expression" he didn't talk about the Christian church that was crushed and is being toyed around for 9 years now waiting for permission to be rebuilt.

If you want to proclaim freedom and equality you have to practice what you preach.

[Infoproliferati]

There's an old Greek proverb: "Don't talk about rope at the hanged man's house".

Again, it's irrelevant how close to ground zero (2 blocks, 3 blocks etc) the mosque is being built. It's all about respecting the sensitivities - not to mention, the hallowed ground status - of that entire area.

Respecting sensitivities is understandable. But how can one different sensitivities from prejudice in this case? I think not wanting a mosque at ground zero has more to do with prejudice than sensitivities.

[Acro]

Respecting sensitivities is understandable. But how can one different sensitivities from prejudice in this case? I think not wanting a mosque at ground zero has more to do with prejudice than sensitivities.

Prejudice would be to oppose building a mosque altogether. This is not the case. But I have information directly from the source; a close friend of mine who is a real estate broker in NYC is aware of the mechanics behind this acquisition. According to his information - and he's no bullshitter - the area was chosen on purpose to spite the Christians and Jews; it's a replica of other such demonstrations of "conquer" around the world and throughout history by Muslims.

[Infoproliferati]

Prejudice would be to oppose building a mosque altogether. This is not the case. But I have information directly from the source; a close friend of mine who is a real estate broker in NYC is aware of the mechanics behind this acquisition. According to his information - and he's no bullshitter - the area was chosen on purpose to spite the Christians and Jews; it's a replica of other such demonstrations of "conquer" around the world and throughout history by Muslims.

Isn't it the fear of muslims that drives the disapproval of the mosque? Does the right to respect sensitivities supersede the right to build the mosque?

If setting up the mosque is part of the Muslim conquer the world mantra, then that represents extremist Islam and government authorities should be notified. But the majority of Muslims don't care about conquering the world. What the majority wants is the freedom to live their lives peacefully.

[Acro]

Isn't it the fear of muslims that drives the disapproval of the mosque? Does the right to respect sensitivities supersede the right to build the mosque?

If setting up the mosque is part of the Muslim conquer the world mantra, then that represents extremist Islam and government authorities should be notified. The majority of Muslims don't care about conquering the world. What the majority wants is the freedom to live their lives peacefully.

I don't agree with the expressions of anger on site etc. I think that it's ridiculous that we have reached the point where it's necessary to mobilize people in order to protest something that should not have happened in the first place. The committee behind the mosque lawfully acquired the land and permits.

It's the intent that counts and the intent is far from clean.

When the Muslims speak of equality and freedom of religion, why keep this on the narrow scope of a city or a country? I'd like to hear what type of freedom of religion was granted to the few remaining Greeks of Istanbul - former Constantinople. If you are so much for freedom of religion would you support turning Hagia Sophia back into the Orthodox church it used to be for centuries, before it was turned into a mosque and then a museum?

[CureCancer]

WHY CANT WE ALL JUST CONVERT TO ET RELIGION and worship the ET GOD "CHABA" ! Does he not look merciful?

[IBN]

Don't watch the news! or even read it on the internet. I've been hearing about this Mosque being built near ground zero. The news has a way of making people loose common sense and it's also geared to play on whatever evil or "sensitivities" you have resting in your heart. People made the attack, if facts are revealed and you want to further classify, fine but if somebody says: "Acro sucks" so google should not give dnf any page rank! Huh? Just a somewhat similar analogy. Things become a big deal and complicated when your dealing with untruths and evil hearts. If people want to make the argument that nothing should be built there than that's another story.
If ground zero now has hollowed ground status, What would it mean if the Church was rebuilt in that area? Should it be rebuilt because it was there before or should the area of ground zero be left to be hollowed ground status? Would people be upset if a museum or restaurant was built near the same area or is it just because it's a mosque? News flash, there are mosques all over N.Y. and even in that surrounding area, been there for a long time. Why do you think the authorities are entertaining the thought of building a mosque there?, Maybe 1. Money talks and 2. In street language, because they know the real deal and they know that aint nobody gonna do nothing in that mosque but pray, read, eat, put on oils ect... The same thing muslims been doing ever since. If the "state" mandated that nothing be built there than the mosque should look for another place but if the "state" gives them legal right like anybody else than they have the right to build there like anybody else. I don't know the whole story so I don't know if the people are fighting against anything being built there or just the mosque.

In another twist to this story, If this were an Islamic state in the true sense, as proven by historical fact, the muslims would have built that church with their own hands and Money first, without any hassle, that is the churches right over the Islamic state. It's Islamic law. Knowledge with a sound heart is the key for people to gain understanding and live among each other in peace.[COLOR="red"]

[Infoproliferati]

Acro, wouldn't the FBI know if there is a conspiracy associated with the planning of the mosque?

The assumption that all Muslims are violent is based on fear of extremists. While understandable, it is untrue. Look at the populations of Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran. They want their freedoms. They yearn for freedom of expression, education and a better life. To cast them off as pawns for the expansion of extremist Islam is just ill-placed.

When it comes to religion and violence, all the blame can't be cast on the Muslims. Even the Christians have their aggressive types. The kind that kill doctors who support abortions. The kind that shoot to eliminate when someone who isn't a threat steps on their property. Yet people don't freak out. These types aren't different from Muslim extremists. And somehow Christians aren't labeled as terrorists.

[DomainsInc]

By not allowing this 'mosque' (which is really a community center in an old burlington coat factory with a place to worship inside..) you are basically saying all muslims are terrorists and to blame for 911.

And Acro, as much as I normally agree with you, the States practically took over Japan after bombing it. As for the Greek church, they should be able to rebuild but would they even want to being exactly next door to the ground zero site? Most likely they wanted to get rid of the church when building the former towers but the chuch wouldn't budge. Well, they got them out now. They should fund for building elsewhere, not out of respect or anything, just common sense really. Until the entire site is rebuilt (if it ever is..), nothing is going to be allowed to built right beside the site. hey maybe they could use the old burlington coat factory.

[draggar]

I agree that they have a right to build it but it is a senstivity issue (I think I've referred to this as "tacky" before). How many mosques and charaties were closed after 9/11 since it was 'found out" that they were funding the extremists? How can we guarantee that this won't happen with this new mosque?

Right now the US is in a lose-lose situation. If it is fully allowed and built then the extremists will say "See, they're bowing down to us" but if it is not allowed then it will be viewed as an anti-Muslim stance.

But also, this is not just a Mosque, it is slated as a comunity center.

Also, as Acro pointed out, how come no one is up in arms over the Greek orthodox church that was destoryed and has been though nothing but red tape for the past 9 years trying to get their house of worship rebuilt.

[biggedon]

there is something more sinister buried under ground zero



and what do you think was really going on inside the twin towers before 9/11?



hmmmm....


there's a conspiracy for ya