No-fly zone in Libya

[Bill Roy]

Gee, just thought I would post to let you know that it seems that Amr Moussa is now back-tracking on his comments and is now in full support of Allied UN strikes, his comments supporting this were made in a joint press conference with the UN Secretary General Moon.

[jasdon11]

You know what I'd like to see?

Before piling in with the jets and missiles, how about the leaders of the countries leading the UN strikes hop on a plane and go and try to convince Gaddafi that if he doesn't back down, he's going to get the shit kicked out of him?

I'd love to see that and I'd have huge respect for those leaders. Even if they didn't get him to back off, they'd have tried.

If you've got an issue with someone, is it not better to go and sort it out yourself, rather than sending Big Baz round to do them over?

[Gee]

In the meantime Gee check out the ArabForum on Arab.com, these are people willing to fight for their freedom and the freedom of their fellow countrymen, not run away like some and hide because things get dangerous in a protest. These men and women are literally dying for their freedom.

many people died in egypt to oust mubarak, we are now living in fear that radical muslims taking over, economy is horrible, also jobs , security...etc

I think it is better to live for something than to die for nothing

we wanted it peaceful not because we are afraid of dying but because we believe in life more than death

this is our revolution message and this is the change we want to see in the mind of our people, do not be afraid and fight to live and keep others safe

what I see in libya is horrible and usa is encouraging them and she is trying to arm the rebels to continue killing and fighting !

is this the change you want to see in libya, sorry I preach the peace and love of life , not to kill others because you think you are right and they are wrong

[Gerry]

is this the change you want to see in libya, sorry I preach the peace and love of life , not to kill others because you think you are right and they are wrong

Those that seek change and peace in Libya were not met with such kind words...

[Bill Roy]

Gee, what was the death toll in Egypt in the ousting of Mubarrak? Now compare that to Libya!

It may well be that Egypt descends into radicalism, that is up to the Egyptians. Those who are for freedom and hold it dear will fight to prevent any such occurring, those that are just mouth pieces and sheep will undoubtedly just carry on bleeting until they realise they are not allowed to bleet anymore by a dictatorial regime, experience shows that these are the people who always cry first.

By the way, as I have written earlier, it is a badly kept secret that actually most of the arms reaching the anti-Gaddafi forces are coming from Egypt and not from the US.

Also Gee you have not commented on Amr Moussa's about face in now supporting the Allied action or the 8,000 killed in Libya by Gaddafi forces. Or do you just wish to ignor facts you do not like? I am making my mind up quickly on this matter as I am sure others are as well.

It is now hoped that other countries in the Arab world will attain freedom as well. What they, the people of those countries, do with that freedom is up to them, hopefully they will fight not only to gain their freedom from despots and dictators but also fight to keep it.

On a somewhat bemused note I have to report that a Labour MP (Yasmin Qureshi - MP for Bolton South in Lancashire) here in the UK today said in the debate in our House of Commons on the UN action that 'we should not hold against Libya actions carried out in the distant past (Lockerby)'! This just goes to show how idiotic and unthinking some of our British MP's actually are. I think I am on absolutely rock solid ground when I say that come the next general election she will either stand-down or lose the election. The vote in support of the action passed by 557 votes in favour with just 13 against.

Latest reports seem to indicate Tripoli Naval Base has been struck tonight 3 times.

[Gee]

Those that seek change and peace in Libya were not met with such kind words...

they want change ..... may be .... but they are not peaceful....

I do not think the violence will stop even if gaddafi is ousted

in egypt , there is now very hot political and religious conflicts and tension

in libya after gaddafi, there will be wars and armed conflicts ! :(

[Bill Roy]

Gee, what is your point?

Are you saying we should all live under despotic dictators?

And please answer the points raised to you.

[Gee]

Gee, what is your point?

Are you saying we should all live under despotic dictators?

And please answer the points raised to you.

there are tons of points raised in every message , I try to answer as much as I can , it is not ignorance

I do not call for anything, I am trying to analyze the situation from my point of view, I will be happy to hear others views as well

libyan are not smart, gaddafi told them he would resign if they provide him a safe haven and not to follow him after resignation, they refused !

we wanted mubarak regime to fall but we accepted just a word from vice president and we are still fighting to get all old regime down

the people who are thinking of violent ways only to freedom, they would have limited time to think of any other peaceful outlets of the situation

[Bill Roy]

Gee learn one thing if nothing else:

Freedom is not cheaply bought, and keeping freedom is the most expensive commodity in the world!

Please answer the following.

1) What about Amr Moussa's about face and his now public support for the strikes on Libya by the Allies, after all it was you who brought up his comments the other day when he said he wanted the airstrikes to stop.

2) Compare the death tolls of now 68 dead including civilians according to Libyan State Television caused by the Allied air strikes and the reported 8,000 killed by Gaddafi's forces.

3) Comment please on the fact that following the Allied air strikes Gaddafi forces have had to retreat from Benghazi - doubtless saving thousands of lives in that city alone.

I would also like you to clarify the point you say about Libyans 'are not smart', this would seem to be an extraordinary derogatory remark by you concerning people of a different nationality.

Perhaps you should realise that Gaddafi is a liar, his word is worth absolutely nothing. The rest of the world realises this, indeed the vast majority of Libyans seem to realise this and that is why they do not trust a single word he says. Perhaps you should ask yourself why 'YOU' believe him?

[Gee]

Amr moussa is a clown , first he wanted to get documented speech against killing civilians to use in his presidency campaign , so none of the competitors will use his support of allied forces against him in the campaign
his speech got the attention of international TVs so he changed his tone and back up the support with care about civilians

the rebels were advancing alot and many cities fall in their hands and gaddafi were in mess asking to resign , they should have done serious negotiations

Now after allied forces attacks, they are in better position for negotiation not to be armed for more fight

please give chance and time for negotiation

[Gerry]

they want change ..... may be .... but they are not peaceful....

I do not think the violence will stop even if gaddafi is ousted

in egypt , there is now very hot political and religious conflicts and tension

in libya after gaddafi, there will be wars and armed conflicts ! :(

Hard to change 15 centuries of tribal rule and warfare.

[Bill Roy]

Gee, as this is the politics section and a lot is allowed here by Adam that is not allowed anywhere else on the forum I will use a good English word that is the same as the American 'Nuts' response by the Americans beseiged in Bastoine during the second world war. My simple answer to your suggestion is:

BOLLOCKS!

Gadaffi is a murdering despotic dictator, using armed mercenaries against his own people, an international terrorist, a war criminal by latest reports, and a liar - there is no negotiation with him.

[Gee]

I know it is easy to say the popular slogan "United states will never negotiate with terrorists"

but if it is your son and daughter who are kidnapped by terrorists , you will think tons of times before saying it

Many poor libyans are kidnapped by gaddafi and I would negotiate and even pay a ransom if he asked for just to save their lives

[Bill Roy]

Gee, I will continue to punch holes in your ridiculous posts as and when necessary, but I will not waste my time further trying to discuss with you the situation as you are clearly incapable of sustained logical debate, you do not answer points put directly to you, you pick and choose extremely selectively any 'newsbite' that suits your pretence at reality. Indeed I seem to remember you even left the demonstrations in Cairo because it was dangerous and went and hid at home if I recall rightly. I therefore deem you unworthy of any further call upon my time.

[draggar]

You know what I'd like to see?

Before piling in with the jets and missiles, how about the leaders of the countries leading the UN strikes hop on a plane and go and try to convince Gaddafi that if he doesn't back down, he's going to get the shit kicked out of him?

I'd love to see that and I'd have huge respect for those leaders. Even if they didn't get him to back off, they'd have tried.

If you've got an issue with someone, is it not better to go and sort it out yourself, rather than sending Big Baz round to do them over?

Many of these dictators don't care for diplomacy or talking - they have ther friends and don't need to be friends with other nations. Gadaffi had no reason to believe that the threats would be followed though. Don't believe me?

August 19, 1981 - two Libyan fighters attack 2 American Tomcat fighters. The two Libyan fighters are shot down. No other escalation.

March 1986 - US warships cross Gadaffi's "Line of Death" (but still in international waters). Libya fires missles at the US warships - US returns fire sinking two Libyan ships, damaging two others and destroying some SAM sites. No other escalation.

April 5, 1986 - La Belle discotheque was bombed (terrorist) killing a Turkish woman and 2 US servicemen as well as injuring 230 other people. A message was intervepted form Libya to the Libyan embassy in East Berlin congratulating them. Result? The US bombed some military targets in Libya.

January 4, 1989 two Libyan fighters antagonize US fighters (over international waters) - despite US fighters changing course to not threaten, Libyan fighters continued to change course to intercept. Libyan fighters open fired on US fighters - US returned fire shooting down two Libyan fighters. No other escalation.

The Libyan government was also found responsible for the bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland (which killed 239 people on the plane and 11 people on the ground). (On Feb 11, 2011 it was aditted by a former Libyan Minister of Justice admitted that Gadaffi ordered the bombing). No response.