Obama Bringing Back Slavery...?

[Donald Aquilano]

Countries like Israel and Argentina have required military service. You don't see anything like Hitler youth in those nations. Plus, it isn't requiring military / police service, It's community service. Working with an approved organization and cleaning up litter along a highway, working in a soup kitchen or animal shelter, helping little old ladies across the street.

My god, people would be asked to do charitable things. That would be a step on the right direction and away form the completely selfish attitude many Americans have developed. This is a great way to stimulate the education system here in the US (as opposed to just handing out money (or making more money "available") as they think it was going to help)

You make it sound like such a good idea except for two things:

1) Its not the governments job to force such a program down the American peoples throat. I'm all for this kind of work being done as long as non government organizations do it.......churches, civic groups etc. without government interference.

2) It wouldn't be free if the government did it. Democrats would find a way to make another bloated bureaucracy out of it. Kind of like Bush did with Homeland Security.

[fab]

1) Its not the governments job to force such a program down the American peoples throat. I'm all for this kind of work being done as long as non government organizations do it.......churches, civic groups etc. without government interference.

I agree with this as well, as I described in some length in a previous post, however, the main issue I have is whether it is mandatory or not.

In any case, I wonder why it's not an obligation for receiving Federal grants like Pell graants and welfare as well. If the receivers aren't getting enough, then expand them.

[Gerry]

Defense service is a national security issue.

There may be a distinction (civic volunteers - civilian- vs government volunteers - armed forces).

There is no doubt (and was mentioned repeatedly over the past few years) that without the volunteer enlistments by the young of America into the armed forces, the draft would have been re-instituted.

It was a scary thought growing up with this concept. All through high school, it seemed this was weighing in the back of every guy's mind. My bothers and I were close not only in blood but in age. When I was a sophomore, one was a junior, the other a senior.

So there were always tense times around each of our 18th birthdays.

You make it sound like such a good idea except for two things:

1) Its not the governments job to force such a program down the American peoples throat.

2) It wouldn't be free if the government did it.

You keep forgetting American history. All you have to do is look back to the last half of the last century when the draft was instituted.

Those who disagreed fled the country.

There is always that option for elementary school kids if they don't want to get off their *** and off the couch for 50 hours a year and do something to benefit a community.

You can also go back further to Nazi Germany. It was one thing for Jews to be separated.

But is was quite another for Germany to institute their own "breeding" program. There is documentation and even historical films recently coming to light that there were arranged marriages to breed the perfect citizen to match the Nazi ideology.

Children born who were not within this ideology, were institutionalized. Those children not blonde hair, blue eyes.

I recently saw a documentary on this. These kids were later put up for adoption after WWII. Many never knew their real parents. Now as adults, they are just now finding out the truth as an effort is made to track their real identity.

Horrible not knowing this all your life and now those being contacted are middle aged and older adults.

So how about killing the Hitler youth talk and the forced volunteerism non-sense and dealing with the here and now.

And if you are fearful of today's American youth and what they may become, there are alternatives.

In any case, I wonder why it's not an obligation for receiving Federal grants like Pell graants and welfare as well. If the receivers aren't getting enough, then expand them.

Either way, you have to qualify.

You have to qualify with those existing programs.

And you will have to qualify for the new $4000 grant by doing 100 hours of community service.

No difference.

Except the proposal will have been an earned credit and not a hand out.

And chances are, this is in addition to Pell Grants and other grants and scholarships. I don't know this to be the case and it will be interesting to see how all this plays out. I have a good friend and co-worker who has two kids in college right now. The parents are doing so much to help these kids out. It is one thing to plan and save for tuition and all. But when you don't know the cost of the books until a course list and requirements are handed out, then it becomes the "OUCH" factor. Both kids books were nearly $700.00 each.

And it seems college textbooks have a short life. Perhaps no more than 2 years. One daughter will be going on to dental school. Those textbooks will run (on average) $250 - $350 each.

So imagine how much $4000 each child will help alleviate the burdon.

The irony is both kids have a history of volunteering in high school and even in college.

[fab]

[QUOTEI have a good friend and co-worker who has two kids in college right now. The parents are doing so much to help these kids out. It is one thing to plan and save for tuition and all. But when you don't know the cost of the books until a course list and requirements are handed out, then it becomes the "OUCH" factor. Both kids books were nearly $700.00 each.

And it seems college textbooks have a short life. Perhaps no more than 2 years. One daughter will be going on to dental school. Those textbooks will run (on average) $250 - $350 each.

So imagine how much $4000 each child will help alleviate the burdon.][/QUOTE]There are loads of programs as is, but they should also apply for student loans. If they're going to becoming dentists, they should have no problem paying them back.

[Gerry]

There are loads of programs as is, but they should also apply for student loans. If they're going to becoming dentists, they should have no problem paying them back.

I think you also mentioned those programs in one of your similar posts. Did you not?

You mentioned Pell grants.

So having a difficult time grasping your point here.

Someone should apply for student loans? Why? Simply because it is available to them?

So is that to say you disagree with the $4000 incentive to do community work by college age students? Because there are other aid and assistance programs available to them?

After all, that is the point of this whole thread.

What about people and students who DO NOT want that burden hanging over their head? To come out of school and be in debt.

What about kids like this who work part time jobs and go to school full time? And parents who want to try to help their kids as much as possible by doing for them as much as possible.

What about someone like me who could have undoubtedly gotten student loans? Instead I had the GI Bill as paying part of the school bill. The shortfall was made up working a full time job while carrying a full load in college, typical semester being 15-21 hours. No a penny from my family.

And I did not suffer one bit for busting me ***. I came out of school debt free with no obligations to anyone. No commitments.

I did not want a burden hanging over my head. And more power to the kids and families that feel the same way.

[fab]

So having a difficult time grasping your point here.

Someone should apply for student loans? Why? Simply because it is available to them?

I was simply making a suggestion for your friend's children, how to get through college, not related to the post.I think you try to over read into posts too often.

So is that to say you disagree with the $4000 incentive to do community work by college age students? Because there are other aid and assistance programs available to them?

I will not make a firm opinion on a theoretical proposal. I would have to see all of the details, costs and benefits before doing that.

[Gerry]

I think you try to over read into posts too often.

Think what you may.

But considering words is what domaining is all about and how objective and subjective every one's opinions are regarding domains, valuation, and domaining in general on this forum, I guess I am a little surprised people do not choose their words to speak, type, or express a thought with any more thinking than they do.

And at the same time, these are some of the peeps that tend to make fun of other cultures and foreigners who do their very best to communicate in our language - English. I see no effort by these same people to speak of communicate in Hindi, Arabic, Chinese, or any of the other hundreds. Hell, it is much easier to make fun of their effort that it would be to learn something new and different.

I could take your statement as being purely sarcasm for the suggestion of "gosh, she will be going to dental school so she'll be able to afford to pay back loans".

True. They have options. And there are other options including no. And any kid going to college in any program has that option.

As in the volunteerism issue. It will remain their choice, no requirement, to volunteer or not.

The odd thing is, every college application I know of in existence today (that being a typical 4 year institution) ask this very thing of incoming freshmen applying for admittance - describe your volunteer efforts and how you have contributed to your community.

If I am guilty of anything, it is trying my damned best to make sense out of pure non-sense.

Side note - I was laughing my *** off a few years back at the billion$ of unpaid student loans. The government decided to withhold tax refunds and apply it to their unpaid debts. Man oh man, the cussing and fussing I used to hear.

[fab]

And at the same time, these are some of the peeps that tend to make fun of other cultures and foreigners who do their very best to communicate in our language - English. I see no effort by these same people to speak of communicate in Hindi, Arabic, Chinese, or any of the other hundreds. Hell, it is much easier to make fun of their effort that it would be to learn something new and different.

And at the same time, these are some of the peeps that tend to make fun of other cultures Yes, I guess I'm one of those on the receiving end!