Obama's Gitmo orders prompt terror debate

**stock_post** · 01-23-2009, 05:09 AM

Personally my idea was to give the new president some time.
But he don't want any time.. he started working!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28788175/

Obama's Gitmo orders prompt terror debate
Some criticize the president for not having a plan in place for detainees.

like to see the opinion of DNF members!!

**Donald Aquilano** · 01-23-2009, 05:26 AM

Just another reason why he hasn't a clue about how to deal with terrorists. NO country wants to take these murders back because their so dangerous. They have no idea want their going to do with them....talk about putting the cart before the horse.

**jasdon11** · 01-23-2009, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by bd77

Just another reason why he hasn't a clue about how to deal with terrorists. NO country wants to take these murders back because their so dangerous. They have no idea want their going to do with them....talk about putting the cart before the horse.

So, you think all those detainees are murderers and terrorists.....what percentage have been tried Mr Judge Jury and Exocutioner?

Originally Posted by stock_post

Some criticize the president for not having a plan in place for detainees.

What, and the previous administration had a plan? LMAO. Many haven't even been charged.

**stock_post** · 01-23-2009, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by jasdon11

So, you think all those detainees are murderers and terrorists.....what percentage have been tried Mr Judge Jury and Exocutioner?

What, and the previous administration had a plan? LMAO. Many haven't even been charged.

That is not my quote : Follow the link
-- Don't make assumptions and attack people.

**jasdon11** · 01-23-2009, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by stock_post

That is not my quote : Follow the link
-- Don't make assumptions and attack people.

Look who's the one making assumptions - I didn't say it was your quote, and I didn't attack anyone.

**draggar** · 01-23-2009, 07:25 AM

One thing I noticed that GW did.

Country#1: Close Gitmo
Bush: Will you allow me to build a base in your country to keep them?
Country#1: Ummm... no.

Rinse and repeat with about a dozen countries.

I also read a report that most of the people released form Gitmo went back to terrorism, some have even been re-captured.

**think** · 01-23-2009, 07:49 AM

Gitmo is a black eye on America's democracy and values. It smacks of authoritarian rule where the rule of law is completely ignored and human rights and liberties are denied.

We can hold detainees here in America, NOT CUBA, and have the trials in accordance with US law. As Obama stated we do not torture. Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, and secret prisons in other countries where torture occurred makes a mockery of all we as Americans claim to hold dear.

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. "

From: http://www.bartleby.com/73/1056.html

**jasdon11** · 01-23-2009, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by draggar

One thing I noticed that GW did.

Country#1: Close Gitmo
Bush: Will you allow me to build a base in your country to keep them?
Country#1: Ummm... no.

Rinse and repeat with about a dozen countries.

Why should any other country allow that? It's preposterous to even suggest it...

The right thing to do would be to charge them if they are suspected of wrong-doing, and deal with them through a court. Innocent until proven guilty - or are there exceptions?

Originally Posted by draggar

I also read a report that most of the people released form Gitmo went back to terrorism, some have even been re-captured.

'Most' of the people....I'll bet that report didn't name any.

**DomainsInc** · 01-23-2009, 08:24 AM

The main thing that has always bothered me is that these people are jailed there for many years without trial. Either give them a fair trial and lock them up if they are guilty or let them go. You can't just lock up people for undetermined periods of time without giving them the option to recieve justice.

**H2FC** · 01-23-2009, 09:58 AM

Question.....why close Gitmo when the real problem is not the location but the treatment of prisoners? why not just keep the place open and change the way they're treated?

whats the real story behind Gitmo closing?

**BobDiGiTaL** · 01-23-2009, 10:24 AM

why can't we just send the detainees to Australia?
or has this practice been stopped?

**PRED** · 01-23-2009, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by BobDiGiTaL

why can't we just send the detainees to Australia?
or has this practice been stopped?

lol
send them to a better place?

well, when they have all sued for torture, no doubt they may choose to live in a civilsed country like australia with their retirement funds. paid for by the taxpayer, like the war. what a f*cked up world all round

also if you weren't a terorist to begin with, one things for sure after that sort of inhumane treatment at guantanemo, i'm guessing you would be pretty anti west by the time you came out.
well done obama for making moves in the right direction. apart from a good humanitarian move , a chance for the U.S to gain a smidgeon of worldwide respect, currently they have zero respect points,.

**Raider** · 01-23-2009, 01:50 PM

If the prisoners are put on trial here in the USA, like Obama wants to do, and no other country will take them, theirs a good chance they could be released into society, If this happens, the USA is going to be flooded with terrorist cells, something Bush has successfully broken up during his 8 years in office. Homeland Security, (if Obama doesn't abolish it first) will be working around the clock, while Americans live their lives under a cloud of fear.

Originally Posted by PRED

well done obama for making moves in the right direction. apart from a good humanitarian move , a chance for the U.S to gain a smidgeon of worldwide respect, currently they have zero respect points,.

I'll take living in a terrorist free country OVER what the World thinks of us ANY DAY!

Originally Posted by H2FC

Question.....why close Gitmo when the real problem is not the location but the treatment of prisoners? why not just keep the place open and change the way they're treated?

whats the real story behind Gitmo closing?

I happen to agree with you..... Reason is; Obama is pandering to what many European and Arab countries are demanding, and that is; CLOSE GITMO.

You voted for a President who bases his decisions on public and world opinion, rather than doing what's right.... Get used to it.

**stock_post** · 01-23-2009, 02:03 PM

I found this interesting: And this news will go hand in hand with the topic.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/...anamo_al_qaida

**draggar** · 01-23-2009, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by jasdon11

'Most' of the people....I'll bet that report didn't name any.

Today's news:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/...nee/index.html

According to the counterterrorism official, freed detainee Ali al-Shiri traveled to Yemen after being released to Saudi Arabia and may have been involved in recent al Qaeda attacks in Yemen, including a car bombing outside the U.S. Embassy in Sanaa last year that killed nearly a dozen people.

Although names mean very little since they change their names (and use false names) quite often.

**Donald Aquilano** · 01-23-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by jasdon11

So, you think all those detainees are murderers and terrorists.....what percentage have been tried Mr Judge Jury and Executioner?

They are terrorists whether you like it or not. The US just doesn't put people in Gitmo for the hell of it. As for them being tried I would have liked to see them go before a military tribunal......and after their found guilty they get hung. Seems like a proper punishment to me. How about you?

**jasdon11** · 01-23-2009, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Raider

If the prisoners are put on trial here in the USA, like Obama wants to do, and no other country will take them, theirs a good chance they could be released into society, If this happens, the USA is going to be flooded with terrorist cells, something Bush has successfully broken up during his 8 years in office.

They'd only be released into society if they were found innocent - you're arguments get more desperate by the day...

Originally Posted by Raider

I happen to agree with you..... Reason is; Obama is pandering to what many European and Arab countries are demanding, and that is; CLOSE GITMO.

You voted for a President who bases his decisions on public and world opinion, rather than doing what's right.... Get used to it.

The rest of the world are just demanding that the US gives the inmates a legal trial - no-one cares if the actual place is open or shut.

**stock_post** · 01-23-2009, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by bd77

They are terrorists whether you like it or not. The US just doesn't put people in Gitmo for the hell of it. As for them being tried I would have liked to see them go before a military tribunal......and after their found guilty they get hung. Seems like a proper punishment to me. How about you?

At this time I like to see how Obama handles things and will try not to come to conclusions at this time.
After a year or two I will start my evaluation.

Obama can go wrong: But all the people who voted for him can not be wrong.
People trusted him for a reason and I like to give him time.

**Donald Aquilano** · 01-23-2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by PRED

lol
send them to a better place?

well, when they have all sued for torture, no doubt they may choose to live in a civilized country like Australia with their retirement funds. paid for by the taxpayer, like the war. what a f*cked up world all round

also if you weren't a terrorist to begin with, one things for sure after that sort of inhumane treatment at Guantanamo, I'm guessing you would be pretty anti west by the time you came out.
well done obama for making moves in the right direction. apart from a good humanitarian move , a chance for the U.S to gain a smidgen of worldwide respect, currently they have zero respect points,.

The US should take a popularity poll before it does anything foreign policy wise. We wouldn't want are so called friends in the world to have a hissy fit and call us names.

Obama's closing of Guantanamo isn't a positive for the US at all. It confirms what many have been saying about him for the last two years that he is weak on national defense. Obama has showed how weak he is when it comes to the terrorist threat this nation faces and will all pay in the future for it.

**cursal** · 01-23-2009, 02:41 PM

If we get that far in a years time and Gitmo is closed down Obama will allow those detainees on US soil, which gives them rights to attorney and a fair trial.

If the US Prosecution fail to prove their cases then they should be let free.
I'm not saying just set them free, but let's show some respect & decency to human life.

Any American would want the same rights. If I, or any other person, got pick-up and shipped off without due process of law would we not scream about how the Constitution is being trashed?

Or maybe those in favor of keeping Gitmo open would be up for getting locked away with no hope of release or due process. Any takers here?

I'll take living in a terrorist free country OVER what the World thinks of us ANY DAY!

Well it's what the world thinks of the USA that caused the attack on 911 (that is if you believe we were attacked) there really wasn't and still hasn't been any follow up the the piss-poor job the 911 commission did.

And as for trading rights for safety:

Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY.~Benjamin Franklin

I believe he also said that "Descent is the highest form of Patriotism."
You know, question your government, do not blindly eat what they are feeding you.
Those in power often have themselves to look after first, least they lose the power.
It the very reason America was founded. To have rights that cannot be taken away just because you hold a higher postion of power.
The president and me have the same rights and are equal in the eyes of justice and law.

Now money for a good lawyer...that is another issue....