Our Social Security

[Adatise]

Edited out because it stirred up to big of bees nest.

[mulligan]

Our? As in the whole world?

[JMJ]

How about we take you further down that rabbit hole

This is the document no longer exists.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/97177801.htm

What they don't want you to read. It was public at one time but after people started putting 2+2 together they took them offline. In summary the Social Security "programs" of the UK, Northern Ireland, and the US were combined together.

"Whereas at London on the 13th February 1984 an Agreement on social security between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of the United States of America (hereinafter referred to as "the Agreement") and an Administrative Agreement for the implementation of the Agreement (hereinafter referred to as "the Administrative Agreement")[1] were signed on behalf of those Governments and effect was given to the Agreement by the Social Security (United States of America) Order 1984 (hereinafter referred to as "the Principal Order")[2]:

And Whereas at London on 6th June 1996 a Supplementary Agreement between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of the United States of America (which Supplementary Agreement is set out in Schedule 1 to this Order and is hereinafter referred to as "the Supplementary Agreement") amending the Agreement and a Supplementary Administrative Agreement amending the Administrative Agreement (which Supplementary Administrative Agreement is set out in Schedule 2 to this Order and is hereinafter referred to as "the Supplementary Administrative Agreement")[3] were signed on behalf of those Governments:

And Whereas by Article 3 of the Supplementary Agreement it is provided that the Supplementary Agreement shall enter into force on the first day of the third month following the month in which each Government has received from the other Government written notification that all statutory and constitutional requirements have been complied with for entry into force of the Supplementary Agreement:"

"This Order makes provision for the modification of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 and the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 so as to give effect to the Supplementary Agreement on social security (which is set out in Schedule 1 to this Order) made between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of the United States of America. The Supplementary Agreement amends the Agreement on social security set out in Schedule 1 to the Social Security (United States of America) Order 1984 to take into account changes in United Kingdom legislation, in particular as relates to incapacity benefit.

There are also set out in Schedule 2 to this Order the provisions of a Supplementary Administrative Agreement amending the Administrative Agreement set out in Schedule 2 to the Social Security (United States of America) Order 1984."


http://www.theantechamber.net/Mirror...ument1997.html

[HarveyJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t2MIFCoGTE

[Adatise]

Edited.

[jberryhill]

In summary the Social Security "programs" of the UK, Northern Ireland, and the US were combined together.

OMG.... This is really almost too dumb for words.

http://www.ssa.gov/international/Agr...s/ireland.html

An agreement effective September 1, 1993, between the United States and Ireland improves Social Security protection for people who work or have worked in both countries. It helps many people who, without the agreement, would not be eligible for monthly retirement, disability or survivors benefits under the Social Security system of one or both countries. It also helps people who would otherwise have to pay Social Security taxes to both countries on the same earnings.

We have bi-lateral agreements with a lot of countries which recognize certain US citizens as citizens of those countries.

For example, anyone with a Jewish mother can be a citizen of Israel; anyone with certain Irish relatives can be a citizen of Ireland; etc., in addition to their US citizenship.

Many of these people spend time living and working in both countries, and it causes certain tax and pension dilemmas.

Consequently, yes, we do have treaties with countries who recognize a substantial number of US citizens as also being citizens of those countries, to work out that class of problems.

It's not a freaking secret, and it does not "combine" the social security system of the US with any other country.

If you are one of those people who applied for Irish citizenship because your grandfather came from Ireland, and you retire in Ireland, but have worked your entire life in the US then, yes, you will receive US social security, and no, you will not receive Irish social security. These agreements work out that kind of thing.

If you would like to know more about international programs of this type, the Social Security Administration has a whole website for you:

http://www.ssa.gov/international/index.html

The United States has bilateral Social Security agreements with 24 countries. The agreements improve benefit protection for workers who have divided their careers between the United States and another country. They also eliminate dual Social Security coverage and taxes for multinational companies and expatriate workers. Look here for an overview of the agreements, as well as the text and a detailed description of each agreement.

[denny007]

Too many morons out there looking for conspiracies. Wake up people, there are no elaborate conspiracies because they are simply impossible to organize and manage, nor eep secret !

On one hand these people claim Bush/Obama/whoever are stupid YET (paradox) they should be able to organize and keeps secret conspiracies how to ake over whole world...

[JMJ]

Too many morons out there looking for conspiracies. Wake up people, there are no elaborate conspiracies because they are simply impossible to organize and manage, nor eep secret !

On one hand these people claim Bush/Obama/whoever are stupid YET (paradox) they should be able to organize and keeps secret conspiracies how to ake over whole world...

It only takes two individuals to conspire.. Some "group" seems to be doing a great job at bringing down the whole World economy. You can call it a coincidence I call it a conspiracy.

OMG.... This is really almost too dumb for words.

http://www.ssa.gov/international/Agr...s/ireland.html



We have bi-lateral agreements with a lot of countries which recognize certain US citizens as citizens of those countries.

For example, anyone with a Jewish mother can be a citizen of Israel; anyone with certain Irish relatives can be a citizen of Ireland; etc., in addition to their US citizenship.

Many of these people spend time living and working in both countries, and it causes certain tax and pension dilemmas.

Consequently, yes, we do have treaties with countries who recognize a substantial number of US citizens as also being citizens of those countries, to work out that class of problems.

It's not a freaking secret, and it does not "combine" the social security system of the US with any other country.

If you are one of those people who applied for Irish citizenship because your grandfather came from Ireland, and you retire in Ireland, but have worked your entire life in the US then, yes, you will receive US social security, and no, you will not receive Irish social security. These agreements work out that kind of thing.

If you would like to know more about international programs of this type, the Social Security Administration has a whole website for you:

http://www.ssa.gov/international/index.html

If I retire from two different companies then I get retirement checks from two different sources. They don't need to make any agreements so why should the governments? I've never worked in another country so I don;t know how the payment into those programs work but if I work in two different countries and end up paying into two different Social Security programs then I should receive reimbursement from two different sources. Where I chose to retire has no bearing.

[jberryhill]

Too many morons out there looking for conspiracies.

Actually, its a handful that are "looking for" them and promulgating them.

You have your Larouchies, Birchers, anti-semite/white power organizations, quasi-religious political operators like the Moonies, religious cultists, militia groups and the mother-lode - Alex Jones.

The tidbits of various conspiracy theories are basically "recruiting hooks" for people who are politically disaffected. The conspiracy theories themselves are an introduction to a much larger program, which itself is pretty much a blind alley that operates to disengage otherwise intelligent, but somewhat paranoid, people from the political process.

If you follow this stuff over time, you notice some interesting patterns. Take "FEMA detention camps", for example. For years, George Bush was going to put all of his political opponents in them. Now, Obama is going to round up birthers and put them in the camps.

Over in another thread, there is a discussion of "The Obama Deception", yet another in a long line of Alex Jones stuff, which ties Obama into the same stuff he was using against Bush when he was in office. This stuff goes way back, and is re-calibrated for every administration - again, as a means of picking up people who are disaffected, angry, or feel powerless because their candidate didn't win.

The 9/11 Truth stuff fed on extreme dislike of the Bush administration, and sucked a lot of lefties into it, but is pretty much ineffective these days, so it has been replaced with birther stuff. In fact, you'll find some longtime 9/11 Truthers who are now Birthers, such as attorney Phil Berg, who collected donations for silly legal actions relating to both theories.

If you caught the clip of the woman at the Barney Frank town hall meeting with the Obama/Hitler poster, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8

...she's not some random "Republican". She's not a Republican at all - or even a conservative.

http://www.larouchepac.com/node/11493

August 20, 2009—This exchange took place at a town hall meeting in Dartmouth, Mass., Aug. 18, 2009, between Rachel Brown of the LaRouche Youth Movement and Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA). We print this report here, following a viral spreading of the interaction across the internet and on national news programs, and confirm, yes, Ms. Brown is with the LaRouchePAC.

The LYM is a cult.

Here's some background:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourc...sh-manipulate/

Political group accused of cult-like practices; LaRouche Youth Movement said to brainwash, manipulate

Gloria Stamat
Contributing Writer

Members of the LaRouche Youth Movement (LYM) whisked Ed Capps and his friend, Katrina Fenton, away to their headquarters in Redford near the end of winter semester 2006. They were returned only after a six-hour indoctrination to get them to drop out of school and join their cause.

Brainchild of political activist Lyndon LaRouche, the LYM is a cultural movement that embraces Marxism and a reemergence of the classics. Though accused of being cultish in nature, the LYM has thousands of followers around the world.

What's interesting is that Fox News' Steve Doocy stuck up for this woman, saying that Franks' response shows he's "spent too much time away from real people."

While the fact that folks from the longstanding loony fringe are mistaken for Republicans these days is kind of interesting in itself, that woman was just as likely to be calling George Bush "Hitler" during his term. It doesn't matter who is in office, these people's tune is pretty consistent, because the specific political facts are not important to their broader agenda. The Larouchies are, in fact, Marxists, but they have adopted far-rightist rhetoric as a tactic.

Conspiracy theories are empowering. The complexity of modern life threatens the sense of security of people with certain personality characteristics. Conspiracy theories provide a narrative of control in a chaotic world - which is comforting, even though there is a cadre of evil geniuses who are actually in control. They also provide a sense of superiority to their believers, who are endowed with "special knowledge" that sets them apart from the "sheeple" who just don't understand "what is really going on".

If I work in two different countries and pay into two different Social Security programs then I should receive reimbursement from two different sources.

You might try reading the information I linked, and this time for comprehension.

I realize that flipping burgers doesn't involve a lot of international assignments, but a lot of companies have operations in more than one country. If you are a US citizen employee of Company X, and Company X sends you to their Toronto office for ten years, then you run into problems with dual tax obligations. The various treaties on taxation and benefits for persons who have worked in more than one country are designed to equitably address these situations.

And if you don't understand it, then that's really just tough. I realize that your conspiracy theory about it probably makes more sense to you than the actual reality of tax and retirement benefit treaties, so I guess you'll just have to stay within the comfort zone of your tin foil headdress.

[denny007]

Some "group" seems to be doing a great job at bringing down the whole World economy. You can call it a coincidence I call it a conspiracy.

So you saying some group of people met and said "Let's bring down world economy, shall we? "
And then organized thsoudands of events to look randomly which however were perfectly and elaborately planned....hmm

Fox News

Pitty Fox news is not broadacsted in whole world as CNN is. Whole world would have really fun with Fox news, I watched few times when in the USA and gosh - it's like a parody on catholic rednecks

[jberryhill]

Actually, Denny, what you get outside of the US is CNN International. The domestic version of CNN, while not as jingoistic as Fox, is a notch in that direction relative to CNN International.

[JMJ]

So you saying some group of people met and said "Let's bring down world economy, shall we? "
And then organized thsoudands of events to look randomly which however were perfectly and elaborately planned....hmm


Pitty Fox news is not broadacsted in whole world as CNN is. Whole world would have really fun with Fox news, I watched few times when in the USA and gosh - it's like a parody on catholic rednecks

It only took one event to trigger it all. On September 18th of last year there was a 550 billion dollar run on the money markets before it was shut down. That began the chain of events which followed. Figure out who coordinated that for me if you will.

[denny007]

It only took one event to trigger it all. On September 18th of last year there was a 550 billion dollar run on the money markets before it was shut down. That began the chain of events which followed. Figure out who coordinated that for me if you will.

The "single event" was simply just a last drop in a cup which was brewing since 1982. It MUST HAVE happened, the only quesiton was WHEN. Lots of people might make ltos of money like that hedge fund guy, but they started too early, although for them it looked many years ago like "this must already collapse FFS !". So they sold all those funny papers short but it did not collapse in time and they lost money and had to close their position.

So no - no coordination. There were tens of thousands of people in it, doing stupid thing thinking "he everyone else is doing it so it can not be bad". There were many dumb decisions of FED, but nobody could know that in advance ("everyone is a general after battle"). We can see it now but the brightest brains could not see it before, neither did you or me.

Now all fundamental data shows US dollar will collapse, but nobody can tell when (and if).

The domestic version of CNN, while not as jingoistic as Fox, is a notch in that direction relative to CNN International.

I always though CNN is little bit "leftist", somone told me people in the US call it "Cmmunis News Network"

[JMJ]

The "single event" was simply just a last drop in a cup which was brewing since 1982. It MUST HAVE happened, the only quesiton was WHEN. Lots of people might make ltos of money like that hedge fund guy, but they started too early, although for them it looked many years ago like "this must already collapse FFS !". So they sold all those funny papers short but it did not collapse in time and they lost money and had to close their position.

So no - no coordination. There were tens of thousands of people in it, doing stupid thing thinking "he everyone else is doing it so it can not be bad". There were many dumb decisions of FED, but nobody could know that in advance ("everyone is a general after battle"). We can see it now but the brightest brains could not see it before, neither did you or me.

Now all fundamental data shows US dollar will collapse, but nobody can tell when (and if).


I always though CNN is little bit "leftist", somone told me people in the US call it "Cmmunis News Network"

Bullshit. Many people saw what was coming but people like John here passed it all off as "conspiracy theory." As far as the draw down. So what you're telling me is that tens of thousands of people decided to make a run from the money markets on the same day for no other reason than "hey look everyone else is doing it.." Come on now. That event propelled Obama into the White House. You don't think someone like George Soros, Obama's sidekick, who also happens to run the largest money market in the World could have gave is buddy a winning ticket?

[denny007]

As far as the draw down. So what you're telling me is that tens of thousands of people decided to make a run from the money markets on the same day for no other reason than "hey look everyone else is doing it.."

Google these:
1. TIPPING POINT
2. BLACK SWAN
Then you might understand why things which are brewing for years suddenly happens big time...

You don't think someone like George Soros, Obama's sidekick, who also happens to run the largest money market in the World could have gave is buddy a winning ticket?

What market is Soros "running" Didn't know he owns market and runs it. I thought he just runs a hedge fund which has long term results not much better than index and made his money on FEES he was charging to customers (20% of profit in good years but no money back in bad years = funds are for morons).

Also voters gave Obama winning ticket, not Soros or any other single person. People wanted change but not because crisis which happens regulary anyway. Because they were tired of wars which are uncalled for etc.

Now I am not saying Obama is good or bad (well what he is good for he is liked even outside USA - basically whole world likes Obama). Basically even monkey* would win the election after Bush for Democrats, even monkey dude


*It is not meant in any racistic way

[JMJ]

Google these:

Watch these and tell me that no one knew.. Even little old me knew what was happening in the Real Estate market but no one wanted to listen. I had people like yourself and John here telling me I was crazy when I was warning people of it years ago... Even on this board..

Now which of these crazy people do you think we should be listening to?

A. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INmqvibv4UU

B. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVP_sgCETo

C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89PyuPaZpXc

I think it's pretty clear who knows what the hell they are talking about. And who is either lying or doesn't know a damn thing about what the hell he is doing. B and C are labeled "kooks" by the likes of John, the media etc. A is our almighty savior.

Don't give me this shit of unpredictability. Many people predicted it. The problem is everyone labeled them "kooks" because the "chosen one's" were saying something entirely different.

[denny007]

Watch these and tell me that no one knew..

Youtube is banned in China, anyway I saww many of these manipulative documentary, it's lot of crap, same crap as "bowling for columbine" etc - facts presented manipulative way.

What I do believe in is common sense. And common sense tells me no single person or group could cause collapse because if it would be possible someone would have done it already years ago. Lots of hedge funds managers knew it will collapse but lost money because nobody can predict timing - Buffett told correctly "I can predict future of many things but I can not rpedict when it happens". Same with OIL - when it wen over 100 lots of people thought it must go down, which it did eventually, butbefore it went to $170 or so (and even at the max nobody could tell if it will go to $200 or $300 or back to $10 - these things are unpredictable in short term or even middle-term, so it's just a gamble - someone wins, most lose)

[JMJ]

Youtube is banned in China, anyway I saww many of these manipulative documentary, it's lot of crap, same crap as "bowling for columbine" etc - facts presented manipulative way.

What I do believe in is common sense. And common sense tells me no single person or group could cause collapse because if it would be possible someone would have done it already years ago. Lots of hedge funds managers knew it will collapse but lost money because nobody can predict timing - Buffett told correctly "I can predict future of many things but I can not rpedict when it happens". Same with OIL - when it wen over 100 lots of people thought it must go down, which it did eventually, butbefore it went to $170 or so (and even at the max nobody could tell if it will go to $200 or $300 or back to $10 - these things are unpredictable in short term or even middle-term, so it's just a gamble - someone wins, most lose)

They aren't documentaries. A is a compilation of Ben Bernanke's interviews telling everyone nothing was wrong. B. is 7 years of Peter Schiff crying foul and C is years of Ron Paul crying foul.

[denny007]

BUt when I was younger I believed in conspiracies - Jews, Communists, Nazis, special group of developped humans, UFO, Ashtar Sheran - all same bull, but when one is young he likes to believe that he is not his own fate manager...sad is if someone keeps believing this crap till later age...but hey as long as he do no damage and it makes him satisfied, everyone can believe whatever they want.

Same with religion etc. - all is same to me: conspiracy, catholics, muslims or those guys from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth
For me is all this absurd about same way, that means my personal bullshit-o-meter is at highest possible level...

This is my favourite

The Earth was originally nothing but water and darkness, ruled by the giant Mbombo. This giant, after feeling an intense pain in his stomach one day, vomited up the sun, moon, and stars. The heat and light from the sun evaporated the water covering Earth, creating clouds, and after time, the dry hills emerged from the water. Mbombo vomited once more. Many things were contained in this second vomiting—people (the first man and the first woman), animals (the leopard, the eagle, and the monkey Fumu), trees, the falling star, the anvil, the firmament, the razor, medicine, and lighting.

They aren't documentaries. A is a compilation of Ben Bernanke's interviews

Well which is still somehow in a category of manipulative documentary

B. is 7 years of Peter Schiff crying foul and C is years of Ron Paul crying foul.

Well if I cry foul for long enough something will likely happen rather than not. I could do same compilation someone crying foul when nothing happened at all, but that would not be as exciting as this cospiracy theories.

If Bernanke did something wrong it was not conspiracy it was simply mistake which could not have been rpedicted at a time, PERIOD

[JMJ]

John I think you lost your backup.