Police unions call for apology from Obama, Patrick - What do you think?

[stock_post]

Police unions call for apology from Obama, Patrick.

Law says you are not guilty until proven.
-- I never saw a police officer follow that.

-- They treat your like you are a proven guilty person.
(talk the way you better agree what they are saying)


What do you think?

[draggar]

First, I don't think a single person here can honestly give a true opinion since none of us were there, heck, almost no one here, maybe except a handful of people, have ever been in the situation.

From what I've heard he was arrested for disorderly conduct.

The police receive a call that a burglary is in progress and they responded. They just can't go by what the person says and even if you still vindicate yourself, you still need to act professionally (and maturely). If you do not - you run the risk of being arrested.

I think Obama's comments were off key and a slap in the face to the policemen.

As for innocent until proven guilty - that is in a court and via a jury of peers (or the judge). Policemen need to think on the fly, in many instances if they hesitate, even for a second, they can be killed. I've seen police take crap for many BS reasons.

Oh, they shot him even though the gun wasn't loaded (how are they supposed to know that?)
They shot him even though it was a toy gun.
They found 40 pounds of pot in his car but it wasn't his.
They found a crack pipe in his pants but it wasn't his.
They tazered him even though he was only holding the knife - he wouldn't have stabbed them.

[INFORG]

I suspect both these guys acted like a-holes, but I have a tough time with anyone being arrested on their own property for being a non-violent loudmouth.

I left law enforcement many years ago because I didn't like the "Robocop" mentality of my peers and supervisors and what I saw in the misguided "war on drugs". A few general law enforcement notes/observations:

* Taser weapons and pepper spray should be removed from law enforcement - they are frequently abused.
* Most disorderly conduct laws are vague and abused. Read the one in Mass. and see how easy it is to meet the elements - you could arrest almost anyone, anytime.
* Police departments have become overly militant and aggressive
* The vast majority of police dollars (your tax money) is spent harassing people who are not harming anyone.

Watching an episode of Cops makes me sick to my stomach.

Most people are content and give the Cops the benefit of the doubt far too often - that is until it happens to them. Even as a law abiding citizen, with what I have seen, I fear police more than criminals.

[Raider]

Police unions call for apology from Obama, Patrick.

Law says you are not guilty until proven.
-- I never saw a police officer follow that.

-- They treat your like you are a proven guilty person.
(talk the way you better agree what they are saying)


What do you think?

Can you provide a link to this story?
------------------------------
Never mind, I found it.

[draggar]

* Taser weapons and pepper spray should be removed from law enforcement - they are frequently abused.

From what I've seen at times they aren't used enough. Sure, they can be abused but so can anything. Using a tazer against a knife wielding meth-head is a lot better than shooting them.

* Most disorderly conduct laws are vague and abused. Read the one in Mass. and see how easy it is to meet the elements - you could arrest almost anyone, anytime.

True.

* Police departments have become overly militant and aggressive

From my own PD (Broward County sheriff's office), I haven't seen this, in fact, the opposite. They've refused to help in many instances - even when one of my wife's good friends was choked by a friend of hers'.

* The vast majority of police dollars (your tax money) is spent harassing people who are not harming anyone.

"Not doing anything wrong" is extremely vague and abused a lot. Speeding isn't doing anything wrong but people get stopped for it. Running red lights isn't doing anything wrong but people get stopped for it. Smoking some home-grown pot isn't doing anything wrong but people get put in jail for it.

There is a fine line between doing too little which people would complain about and doing too much, which people would also complain about. That fine line is doing just enough. Unfortunately, that line is in a different place for every person.

[INFORG]

Using a tazer against a knife wielding meth-head is a lot better than shooting them.

They'd still shoot the meth-head with a knife.

Tasers are for great grandma and kids. If you are a pastor, they use both.

I'd sure like to see law enforcement err on the "doing too little" side more.

Almost all of these types of instances were handled before widespread use of tasers and spray. There are still many cops that would tell you they can handle most of these incidents without arresting, tasing, or blinding people.

I've been on calls almost identical to the Gates thing, and never arrested somebody for playing the race card or getting loud.

[Acro]

The professor is a friend of Obama's. The President's initial statement was out of place. He should not have intervened, it got all personal. Did the police act irrationally in this case? Perhaps, perhaps not. They witnessed what they perceived to be unauthorized, forced entry into the house.

[biggedon]

I suspect both these guys acted like a-holes, but I have a tough time with anyone being arrested on their own property for being a non-violent loudmouth.

i believe this is why the Prez stated that the police acted stupidly.

because they (police) let the situation escalate into a national debate, when it should have been a simple 'thanks officers for checking....have a good day"

the publicity was way over the top because the news media needed some controversy

[draggar]

First, the news media will almost NEVER give the police's side of the story - it just makes better news.

It is also a lot easier to say "well, they over did it" after the fact when police don't have that luxury. In the situation, they have the NOW and they need to think fast - one little hesitation and they could be killed (BTW - how many non-military jobs are out there where a noticeable percentage of the population actively tries to kill you?).

I've done a ride along in the past. I actually saw someone act very aggressively towards the police officer. The person ran a red light - it was obvious (we were on the cross-street and our light was green) yet he argued and argued, insulted the officer, swore at him, belittled him, gave the whole "I pay your salary" speech.

The officer wrote him a ticket and he continued to complain "How can I afford this", "Now my insurance is going to go up" and what was the officer thinking? "I"m glad he's not a drug runner or someone else who was going to run or try to shoot me.

I ask anyone here who thinks the police over-do their job to do a ride along. Don't do an easy one in a rich neighborhood, go to a ghetto, go to a low income community / trailer park and see what they see.

Now, I won't deny, there are police officers who do abuse their power and I do agree 100% that they should be dealt with and reprimanded.

[Gerry]

He has offered an apology for the misspoken context.

Can someone point me to the site that has a Bush apology? Any? Any at all? Any subject? anything? a site where he says. "I am sorry... blah, blah, blah"? Surely there has to be at least one instance of an apology within his tenure of public office. It was eight years long so he must have made at least one mistake that he apologized for.

[INFORG]

Some Bush apologies:

http://www.nsnetwork.org/node/796
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Bus...81214-790.html
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-69918791.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n11455883/
http://politicaltherapy.blogspot.com...asing-guy.html

Why does any mention of Obama require a comparison to Bush anyway?

[biggedon]

The professor is a friend of Obama's. The President's initial statement was out of place. He should not have intervened, it got all personal. Did the police act irrationally in this case? Perhaps, perhaps not. They witnessed what they perceived to be unauthorized, forced entry into the house.

"They (the police) did not witness any unauthorized, forced entry"

a neighbor called police because she saw two black men on the porch who looked suspicious.

by the time the cops got there, dude was already in his house.

I've done a ride along in the past. I actually saw someone act very aggressively towards the police officer. The person ran a red light - it was obvious (we were on the cross-street and our light was green) yet he argued and argued, insulted the officer, swore at him, belittled him, gave the whole "I pay your salary" speech.

The officer wrote him a ticket and he continued to complain "How can I afford this", "Now my insurance is going to go up" and what was the officer thinking? "I"m glad he's not a drug runner or someone else who was going to run or try to shoot me.

I ask anyone here who thinks the police over-do their job to do a ride along. Don't do an easy one in a rich neighborhood, go to a ghetto, go to a low income community / trailer park and see what they see.

Now, I won't deny, there are police officers who do abuse their power and I do agree 100% that they should be dealt with and reprimanded.

i give police officers tons of credit for trying to fight real criminals, and there are some heartless sob's out here doing drive-bys, stick-ups and murders. robb.

but if that had been a black or hispanic male talking like that to a police officer, they could expect to go to jail

and if they fit that profile and didn't go to jail, they were really lucky that day.

cause that's the way it is, in the usa...

[tristanperry]

He has offered an apology for the misspoken context.

Can someone point me to the site that has a Bush apology? Any? Any at all? Any subject? anything? a site where he says. "I am sorry... blah, blah, blah"? Surely there has to be at least one instance of an apology within his tenure of public office. It was eight years long so he must have made at least one mistake that he apologized for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8az4CfEDpw



But yeah - I haven't followed this whole story so can't comment too much. But on the whole "apology" thing - it's just a cold, calculated political move; just like everything else is in politics. Tony Blair and David Cameron (here in the UK) do/did apologise from time to time. On the other hand, Gordon Brown seldom apologies for anything - all I can think of is one time; he was hammered by the press and public for many weeks over one of many cock-ups, and then almost triumphantly said "I made a mistake, I am sorry". It was clearly a political move.

Bringing the point home a bit - don't think that any apology from any senior politician (Obama, Bush, Blair, Cameron, Brown etc etc) is anything more than an empty political move. Sounds cynical, although I do believe this.

</Cynicism>

[Gerry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8az4CfEDpw



But yeah - I haven't followed this whole story so can't comment too much. But on the whole "apology" thing - it's just a cold, calculated political move; just like everything else is in politics. Tony Blair and David Cameron (here in the UK) do/did apologise from time to time. On the other hand, Gordon Brown seldom apologies for anything - all I can think of is one time; he was hammered by the press and public for many weeks over one of many cock-ups, and then almost triumphantly said "I made a mistake, I am sorry". It was clearly a political move.

Bringing the point home a bit - don't think that any apology from any senior politician (Obama, Bush, Blair, Cameron, Brown etc etc) is anything more than an empty political move. Sounds cynical, although I do believe this.

</Cynicism>

Thank you for that attempt.

Saying I am responsible is not an apology.

I did not hear,

I am sorry that the federal government waited 5 days after Katrina to come into New Orleans
I am sorry that FEMA did not respond immediately
I am sorry I appointed the head of the International Arabian Horse Association as head of FEMA
I am sorry I waited ignored calls that the levees were not capable of holding back the water.
I am sorry I waited so long to even show my white ass in New Orleans.

Some Bush apologies:

http://www.nsnetwork.org/node/796
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Bus...81214-790.html
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-69918791.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n11455883/
http://politicaltherapy.blogspot.com...asing-guy.html

Why does any mention of Obama require a comparison to Bush anyway?

Out of those five specs you posted, only one do I see him actually saying I apologize. That is a shocker.

Why does any mention of an Obama needing to apologize suddenly a headling news story?

Why does the mention of the current president require a comparison to Bush anyway?

Because I am waiting for the former pres to apologize for killing our young people fighting a war in a country that was not a threat to us, killing hundreds of thousand on civilians in that country, bankrupting the US in the process, lying stealing and cheating the Amercian people for eight years.

Put that ****er on the stand in a war crimes case along with Dick Cheney. Disgrace to the country and anyone who has worn an American Soldier's uniform. Absolute disgrace. Eight years of time this country will never be able to apologize enough for - not only to the US citizens but the entire world.

[south]

The professor is a friend of Obama's. The President's initial statement was out of place. He should not have intervened, it got all personal. Did the police act irrationally in this case? Perhaps, perhaps not. They witnessed what they perceived to be unauthorized, forced entry into the house.

Agreed, and well said. In addition, even if it the owner of the house WAS in the house, the officer was responding to a call, and had to perform his duties by making certain the premesis had been secured. When he received the call, he was told there were 2 possible intruders, not just one. His job REQUIRES him to ascertain the safety of the owner of the house.

[INFORG]

Thank you for that attempt.

Saying I am responsible is not an apology.

I did not hear,

I am sorry that the federal government waited 5 days after Katrina to come into New Orleans
I am sorry that FEMA did not respond immediately
I am sorry I appointed the head of the International Arabian Horse Association as head of FEMA
I am sorry I waited ignored calls that the levees were not capable of holding back the water.
I am sorry I waited so long to even show my white ass in New Orleans.

Out of those five specs you posted, only one do I see him actually saying I apologize. That is a shocker.

Why does any mention of an Obama needing to apologize suddenly a headling news story?

Why does the mention of the current president require a comparison to Bush anyway?

Because I am waiting for the former pres to apologize for killing our young people fighting a war in a country that was not a threat to us, killing hundreds of thousand on civilians in that country, bankrupting the US in the process, lying stealing and cheating the Amercian people for eight years.

Put that ****er on the stand in a war crimes case along with Dick Cheney. Disgrace to the country and anyone who has worn an American Soldier's uniform. Absolute disgrace. Eight years of time this country will never be able to apologize enough for - not only to the US citizens but the entire world.

Then start a thread about putting Bush on trial. this one was about the Gates incident. You are so emotional in your arguments that they barely make sense, let alone make a persuasive argument.

You seem to think that anyone who questions Obama or is anti-Obama is automatically Pro-Bush and you go on your little tirade. You should start by accepting that there is a big chunk of population that doesn't like either one of them

You should be opposed to the "your with us or your against us" mentality, but you two party folks are just different sides of the same rusty coin.

[JuniperPark]

Assuming it happened as stated, the cops deserve an apology from ALL parties, including Obama.

Most people THANK the police when they try to stop a burglary. This guy HARRASSED the cops, then played the race card, because the cop was white, which makes HIM the racist!

The professors who story is NONSENSE. If cops hated him, they would NOT RESPOND to a reported burglary at this house. Can you imagine his "outrage" if they didn't show up?

By all accounts, including his own neighbors, and including the BLACK police officer, the guy was not cooperating and this WAS a "hot prowl" burglary, which is very dangerous to respond to and many cops are killed this way.

The professer is just trying to get money and attention. He went on his daughter's radio show and was asked what the cops SHOULD have done. He said they SHOULD have recognized him a local celebrity and asked him for an autograph. SERIOUSLY, that's how this idiot thinks police should handle an unknown person found in a house during a reported break-in. DUH.

[Gerry]

Then start a thread about putting Bush on trial. this one was about the Gates incident. You are so emotional in your arguments that they barely make sense, let alone make a persuasive argument.

You seem to think that anyone who questions Obama or is anti-Obama is automatically Pro-Bush and you go on your little tirade. You should start by accepting that there is a big chunk of population that doesn't like either one of them

You should be opposed to the "your with us or your against us" mentality, but you two party folks are just different sides of the same rusty coin.

I hate Bush with a passion. My "passions" run deep.

[Banned: dn-101]

Most of the cops wouldn't be able to get any employment outside of police precinct. Their skills are totally useless except one business: mafia

[draggar]

Most of the cops wouldn't be able to get any employment outside of police precinct. Their skills are totally useless except one business: mafia

Yes because anyone can be a security guard, correctional officer, armored (bank) truck driver, PI, move up in the force then get into politics, security adviser, etc. (and do the job well).

Many police officers also have a military background which opens many doors for them outside of law enforcement.