Reconciliation to pass Healthcare?

[Arrogance]

Interesting video from 2005. Roles are now changed

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-dems-i...unders-intent/

[thevirtual]

Do you really think they are going to use reconciliation? I highly doubt it.

[Arrogance]

Probably not. Anyone running for office and supporting the legislation in current form would have big trouble the first week of November imo. The procedure has been used in the past http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/20...-19802008.htmlby both parties, so it isn't a new practice. Given the 10/15% congressional approval rating and the passion (both sides) surrounding the debate, the issue is just too sensitive to pass in such a manner. The fact that reconciliation is even being discussed in regard to passage is nonsensical to me.

[thevirtual]

Probably not. Anyone running for office and supporting the legislation in current form would have big trouble the first week of November imo. The procedure has been used in the past http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/20...-19802008.htmlby both parties, so it isn't a new practice. Given the 10/15% congressional approval rating and the passion (both sides) surrounding the debate, the issue is just too sensitive to pass in such a manner. The fact that reconciliation is even being discussed in regard to passage is nonsensical to me.

The procedure has been used excessively by republicans in the recent past. At this point people want results regardless of how. If the democrats can get a bill through reconciliation that would produce anything good it would help them.

IMO the only passion surrounding the debate is both parties fighting to win the favor of lobbyists within the chaos and confusion they created.

[Donald Aquilano]

The procedure has been used excessively by republicans in the recent past. At this point people want results regardless of how. If the democrats can get a bill through reconciliation that would produce anything good it would help them.

IMO the only passion surrounding the debate is both parties fighting to win the favor of lobbyists within the chaos and confusion they created.

The only time reconciliation works is when you use it to pass a bill that is popular with the public. Since this bill has very little support from the public the Democrats would be very foolish to try it.

[thevirtual]

The only time reconciliation works is when you use it to pass a bill that is popular with the public. Since this bill has very little support from the public the Democrats would be very foolish to try it.

Which bill? The one that the republicans clawed away at until it was a liability?

Reconciliation has been used by republicans to no end on garbage bills that would never have support from the public.

The public option has public support, do you agree they should include it in the bill if it goes to reconciliation?

[Arrogance]

Which bill? The one that the republicans clawed away at until it was a liability?

Reconciliation has been used by republicans to no end on garbage bills that would never have support from the public.

The public option has public support, do you agree they should include it in the bill if it goes to reconciliation?

Disagree with the garbage bill characterization. Reconciliation has been used for measures including tax cut packages (under Bush and Clinton), spending cuts, and welfare reform. Hardly anything as controversial as a trillion dollar plan over 10 years . Although in 1990 the 101st congress implemented tax increases through reconciliation under a Democrat majority.

Bills are clawed away by both parties, with pork being added and kickbacks received. Recently votes were secured through the "Louisiana Purchase" and the "Nebraska Windfall", so this practice is not limited to Republicans.

[Arrogance]

President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Care Reform Fix, If Not Given Up or Down Vote

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...care-bill.html

[south]

Like they haven't spent us below ground already... Bastards.

[Gerry]

Which bill? The one that the republicans clawed away at until it was a liability?

Perhaps talking about the two bills passed in previous administration that gave monster sized tax breaks to the elite and companies to the tunes of trillions.

[thevirtual]

It seems they will absolutely have to use reconciliation to pass any bill on Healthcare, but it seems some would rather do without any healthcare reform to keep the republicans egos intact.

Like they haven't spent us below ground already... Bastards.

What? You think Healthcare reform is bad because it is too much spending, and you blame the current administration for spending too much? That seems a bit odd.

If only the government would overspend on things that actually served the people like healthcare reform but we aren't getting the reform that was initially proposed thanks mostly to republican obstruction. If you want to talk about cutting spending you should be complaining about the massive spending on wars, bank and industry bailouts, and massive tax cuts/loopholes to the wealthy and corporations.

[Gerry]

Many of you have no idea how much have NO insurance is costing this country, every state, and every single person who earns a paycheck.

The cost of us having to make up for those that do not have insurance is mind boggling.

Those that have no insurance use the emergency rooms as their doctor.

No matter what it is, as soon as someone enters the admin room or triage room, the meter starts running.

All people admitted to the ER will have vitals taken, blood drawn, an IV started, and placed on a monitor.

These procedures are now routine and this now standards minimums of care.

So rather than have the money to pay for an $80 doctors office visit or prime car and only have to pay $20 or $30 bucks for a co-pay, what could have been a simple office visit now has cost 800 bucks or more.

Now, who pays for that?

Every person who has a job is paying for it.


I find some irony in all of this.
For eight years, the Bush's form of controlling healthcare cost was trying to put a cap on how much someone could win in a malpractice suit - $250,000.00.
The administration wanted to fight the Frivolous Lawsuits.
They did not want to reform the healthcare system or how healthcare is delivered.
Instead they wanted to cap the amount of money an insurance company would have to pay out, especially in the case of doctor error or wrongful death.
Yes, they (Bush and his administration) actually were placing a figure on the cost of a human life or a limb.
If you had a leg cut off by accident or someone reading the wrong chart, $250K is the most you could ever respect to recover.
If you died on the OR table because of a doctor's error, your death was capped at $250K.
Insurance companies were big friends and contributors to the GOP.
Now, don't get me wrong - they are friends with any member of any party who could be easily swayed.
This was not a fix nor a band-aid for healthcare.
It was a measure to keep the fat-cats fat, fatter, and belly up to the table.

Here is the irony...does anyone know what killed Sen. John Murtha?
During routine gallbladder surgery, his large intestine was mistakenly knicked.
Massive sepsis and infection from bowel matter filled up his abdomen and killed him.

Can you imagine what the Senate (and his family) would be going through had this motion passed and one of the Senates own dies?

[Mike Cruz]

I hope SOMETHING GOOD happens with this.

I pay $382/month for PERSONAL health insurance that I had to renew in November. Why am I paying so much? Right before my insurance expired I found out I had a brain tumor, so instead of paying $75/month I have to pay this ridiculous amount for a "pre-existing condition". I use to pay $15 to see my Primary doctor, now I am paying $25, use to pay $30 to go to a specialist, now I am paying $45, use to pay $75 if I had to go to the ER, now it is $125.

I see my primary doctor at least once a month, get my blood and cortizone tests once a month, see my Neurologist and Endocrinologist once a month. So after everything is said and done I am spending approximately $542/month just on healthcare not including the $20-$40 I spend on prescription medication.

So again, SOMETHING GOOD, ONE TIME!

[Raider]

Here is the irony...does anyone know what killed Sen. John Murtha?
During routine gallbladder surgery, his large intestine was mistakenly knicked.
Massive sepsis and infection from bowel matter filled up his abdomen and killed him.

I think I do... Didn't he die from a heart attack due to stress of being under investigation for ethics violations?, Or was it the stress of voting for the Iraq war and then later voting against it? Or maybe it was the Abscam investigation, or the hundred's of millions in earmarks. What ever it was that killed him, I'm sure he had a very nice funeral, Paid from the account of illegal campaign contributions he received.


I wonder what they will write on his headstone;

Jack Murtha - Democrat
June 17, 1932 - February 8, 2010
One of the 20 most corrupt members of Congress

Charles Rangel might be next.

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------

I hope SOMETHING GOOD happens with this.

I pay $382/month for PERSONAL health insurance that I had to renew in November. Why am I paying so much? Right before my insurance expired I found out I had a brain tumor, so instead of paying $75/month I have to pay this ridiculous amount for a "pre-existing condition". I use to pay $15 to see my Primary doctor, now I am paying $25, use to pay $30 to go to a specialist, now I am paying $45, use to pay $75 if I had to go to the ER, now it is $125.

I see my primary doctor at least once a month, get my blood and cortizone tests once a month, see my Neurologist and Endocrinologist once a month. So after everything is said and done I am spending approximately $542/month just on healthcare not including the $20-$40 I spend on prescription medication.

So again, SOMETHING GOOD, ONE TIME!

$542 a month is really nothing when you think about it.... And at least your taking advantage of it.

I'm opposed to any form of health care bill that forces Americans to buy health insurance, A bill that punishes Americans with penalties and imprisonment if they don't buy it. It's simply unconstitutional and will be reversed by the US Supreme Court if it does pass.

[Mike Cruz]

I think I do... Didn't he die from a heart attack due to stress of being under investigation for ethics violations?, Or was it the stress of voting for the Iraq war and then later voting against it? Or maybe it was the Abscam investigation, or the hundred's of millions in earmarks. What ever it was that killed him, I'm sure he had a very nice funeral, Paid from the account of illegal campaign contributions he received.


I wonder what they will write on his headstone;

Jack Murtha - Democrat
June 17, 1932 - February 8, 2010
One of the 20 most corrupt members of Congress

Charles Rangel might be next.

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------



$542 a month is really nothing when you think about it.... And at least your taking advantage of it.

I'm opposed to any form of health care bill that forces Americans to buy health insurance, A bill that punishes Americans with penalties and imprisonment if they don't buy it. It's simply unconstitutional and will be reversed by the US Supreme Court if it does pass.

You are missing the point. I went from paying only $75/month with lower co-payments to over 4 times what I use to pay a month with higher co-payments because of the "pre-existing" bull shit. With the new healthcare plan, a insurance company can not raise your premium due to a pre-existing condition.

The supposed health care plan also does NOT force anyone to buy government health insurance but is being created to compete with the private corporations that rape us on a daily basis. There is always going to be "pork" stuffed into any bill, unfortunately thats the way shit works in this country. If you think that is only with the Democratic parties, you are in denial.

You are obviously opposed to the government owning or running anything, but you would much rather it be the greedy corporations with little to no regulation? I am sure you are probably happy paying a 28% interest rate on your credit cards as well?

I am not sure I understand the "Republican" view on anything in this country.

They want to go to war.
They want to have the strongest government in the world.
They want to have the most protection in the world.
They don't want the government involved in anything that has to do with our lives.
They want our government involved in everyones lives outside of America.
They don't want to pay taxes.
Huh?

[Raider]

Now, who pays for that?

Every person who has a job is paying for it.

Under Obama 1.9 Million Americans lost their jobs and the number continues to grow... So where is the money going to come from to pay for their health care? The National debt is over 12 TRILLION in the RED and you want to add more?

What about creating jobs and putting Americans back to work FIRST? So we can pay for it?

---------- Post added at 11:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------

You are obviously opposed to the government owning or running anything, but you would much rather it be the greedy corporations with little to no regulation? I am sure you are probably happy paying a 28% interest rate on your credit cards as well?

I usually dont carry a balance on my credit cards and when I do, it's paid off as soon as the bill arrives.... If people would use their debit card instead of their credit cards, they wouldn't have to worry about interest.

I am not sure I understand the "Republican" view on anything in this country.

They want to go to war.

We already concluded in the other thread it's the Democrats who are the War Mongers.... History proves it, you might want to look that up.

[Gerry]

I think I do...

ergo your basic mental.

No. A medical mistake, an errant blade on the laproscope, carelessness, accidental, malpractice...whatever you want to call it killed him, you simpleton.

Your attempt to make humor out someone dying is nauseating and getting old. But all so predictable from a tool like you.

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

And this blaming obama for job losses is also getting old.

When do you think we should STOP blaming Bush?

Do you think these are all Obama attributed?

Jan 2009: -598,000 <---- Obama inaugurated
Feb 2009: -651,000
Mar 2009: -663,000 <---- ARRA (Stimulus) starts
Apr 2009: -539,000
May 2009: -345,000
Jun 2009: -467,000
Jul 2009: -247,000
Aug 2009: -216,000

Your boy Bush started the downward spiral in fall 2007.

Yet you want to take all those from Jan - March and throw that on Obama?

Whatever...whatever justifies your existance.


And regarding jobs...jobs went away. Gone.

Now do you think all those jobs are coming back?



Insurance...well, the uninsured was and has been an issue for decades. Its nothing new.

And it is nothing new that the GOP administrations did not tackle nor address this issue.

Why?

Well, it just did not make for good bed buddies. What made better sense for the previous administration is attempting to CAP the amount of damages one could recover. It was not in the best interest of the patient. It was in the best interest of the health insurance companies.

We still have not really addressed the issue of doubling the national debt from the eight years under Bush, have we?
Going from about a 5.6T to an 11.3T in his eight years.
Giving huge tax cuts to the wealthiest not once, not twice, but three times.
Passing a Medicare prescription benefit that was NEVER FUNDED (it made great press though, huh? Really pacified the old geezers, didn't it).

How many times did he raise the national debt levels?
Hmm...

Go ahead, justify those all those times.

Get out your GOP script book and tell me and everyone else here why they were justified.

All of them.

He, BUSH, left office putting this county in debt 10.7T and had just increased the level to 11.3 a few months prior (and only a few months prior to that he had raised it AGAIN for 8T).


But, that's all well and good, right?
Because now you want to talk about insurance and how wrong it is for it to be mandatory for everyone to have it.
Question: Where was your outrage when each and every working person was FORCED to pay addition medicaid/medicare tax on your paystubs?
See, all this bullshit going on now DID NOT HAPPEN overnight.
Why did you not protest when your paychecks came with a new mandatory deduction taken out every paycheck?

Where were your fellow teabaggers then?

I guess teabagging each other.

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------

We already concluded in the other thread it's the Democrats who are the War Mongers.... History proves it, you might want to look that up.

Oh, the other thread that was closed?

So jump in another thread to keep playing that broken record of yours.

And the "We concluded..." was quite onesided.

Yeah, those damn democrats - who do they think they are declaring war on Japan in 1941. They have brought our nation to ruination.




Goodbye Raider. Enjoy your flight.

[Raider]

No. A medical mistake, an errant blade on the laproscope, carelessness, accidental, malpractice...whatever you want to call it killed him, you simpleton.

What ever it was, he's one less piece of sh*t Dem we have in congress today. And I honestly dont care if he's dead or not, He was a CROOK.

Your boy Bush started the downward spiral in fall 2007.

Actually the downward spiral started when Democrats took control of both houses in Bush's last 2 years in office..... It's the Congress who appropriates funds you idiot, not the President. In Obama's case, he pushed his agenda through Congress and they, the Democatic majority went along. So you cant blame Republicans for the rampant spending of the past year, Nobody except idiots like you who have a hard-on to trash Bush for Iraq, Blaming him for everything that's gone wrong in 2009 and 2010, Never accepting responsibilty for the mistakes Obama, his administration and the Democrats in congress have made since this FOOL was elected.

As for the debt under Bush, He added 5 Trillion to the national debt during the entire 8 years in office.... Obama has been in office for only 1 year and he's already racked up over 3 TRILLION more, And it's expected to surpass Bush's 5 Trillion by next year.

And get this; Under Obama the National Debt will increase to $23 Trillion over the next Ten Years.

If you CANT fix it, throw more money at it!.... The Obama way.

---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

Yeah, those damn democrats

I know what you mean.

Democrats like you that try to justify Vietnam, Deploying over 500,000 troops and having 58,159 come back dead... You must be so proud of your party..... And our Democrat Presidents mission in Vietnam was what? To retaliate for the Gulf of Tonkin incident? or was it to stop the spread of communism and bring independence to South Vietnam?

And yet you support these objectives while denouncing the objectives in Iraq?... NO Doc, maybe it's YOU who's the stupid kunt here huh? because it's certainly not me.

[Mike Cruz]

Actually the downward spiral started when Democrats took control of both houses in Bush's last 2 years in office..... It's the Congress who appropriates funds you idiot, not the President. In Obama's case, he pushed his agenda through Congress and they, the Democatic majority went along. So you cant blame Republicans for the rampant spending of the past year, Nobody except idiots like you who have a hard-on to trash Bush for Iraq, Blaming him for everything that's gone wrong in 2009 and 2010, Never accepting responsibilty for the mistakes Obama, his administration and the Democrats in congress have made since this FOOL was elected.

Lol, are you new? Please do some research and without blinders on please. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney NEVER cared, nor acknowledged congress, they pushed whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted for any Bill they pleased, whether congress approved it or not.

So for you to say the "Democratic Congress" was the one who started the downward spiral in 2007 when they entered office is hilarious and I am not really surprised you tried to use that as something to protect your beloved party.

Conservative with a conscience my ass, stealing sigs I see now...

"Conservative with a conscience, unless it has anything to do with foreigners even though I am one myself" better suits you...

[Gerry]

Three times in office Bush gave the richest of the rich a tax break.
In 2005, Bush enacted law to make it nearly impossible for an individual to file bankruptcy.
In 2006, Bush raised the national debt ceiling for the 4 time in 5 years going from a 5.6T to now 9T
In all Bush raised the debt limit SEVEN times in office.
Two of those ceiling raises would come just months apart in 2008.
When Bush left office, the national debt was 10.7T having come close to the new recently raised to 11.3T

It is called poor fiscal responsibility.
You can not spend more than you take in.
Nor can you keep giving tax cut after tax cut after tax cut to those that need it less.

So you have have spent over 5 trillion while you are in office,
you have two wars that are going on that are estimated to cost (each) 1 billion a day that are not properly funded for,
you provide hefty tax cuts to the wealthiest of the wealthy providing less and less revenue being taken in by the government,
you pass a Medicare Prescription Plan in 2003 that is estimated to cost 1.3T but DO NOT FUND IT (just sign some papers authorizing it),

it only stands to reason when you are spending money like there is no tomorrow and have nothing coming in, you are ****ed. But ****ed in a big way because the culprits can walk off and say, it ain't my mess to clean up.

Yup, Obama did it.

Just to break even, we have to not spend a penny on anything but pay back 11 trillion dollars.
How long do you think that will take?

And to think, you actually said that Clinton did a bad thing by trying to balance the budget and reduce the debt.
Why was that again?

Are we now getting into the differences of Ivy League Schools of Economics?

Oh, and I believe ALL THREE of the tax cuts were done by, EGAD! Reconciliation.