Thomas Jefferson Truths

[Donald Aquilano]

BD, it's obvious you didn't make them up, because they have correct spelling and grammar. You made it clear previously that you haven't even read the Constitution.

You copied them from a recycled list that's been circulating for ages.

You think the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, which runs Monticello (take a look at the back of a nickel sometime), might have a clue about what he did or did not say?

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki...uch_government

Quotation: "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."

...

Earliest known appearance in print: 1913[1][2]

Earliest known appearance in print, attributed to Jefferson: 1950[3]

Other attributions: John Sharp Williams

Status: This exact quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It bears some slight resemblance to a statement he made in a letter to John Norvell of 14 June 1807, "History, in general, only informs us what bad government is."[4] However, the quotation as it appears above can definitely be attributed to John Sharp Williams in a speech about Jefferson,[5] which has most likely been mistaken at some point for a direct quotation of Jefferson.

Several are listed here:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...son-quotes.htm

Summary of the eRumor:
A forwarded email with the several quotations from Thomas Jefferson relating to the economy, democracy and government.

The Truth:
According to the "Jeffersonian Cyclopedia" published in 1900 by Funk and Wagnalls and edited by John P. Foley, some of these are true and some are not found or misquoted.


The problem is, BD, the habit of uncritically believing and spewing crap that you are told, without bothering to think for yourself, check things out on your own, or having any concern for actual facts - all while calling it "truth".

As long as it came in a "forward this to your friends" email, or was posted on some "Hatriot" web site, then it's "true".



Hey, that's really funny. Telling a lawyer "kill all the lawyers". That's just a freakin' laugh riot there, Fab.

Here's a hilarious video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFqs-NT5S6k

Oh, btw, Thomas Jefferson was a lawyer.

What makes you think that the sources you quote are accurate JB? You're giving me grief for getting my information on the web and you just did the same thing!!! I believe what I posted is correct. Could I be wrong? That's a possibility but nothing you have shown me has convinced me otherwise.

You damn well know that if I'm wrong I'd admit to it unlike many of the more liberal members of this forum and that includes you.

BTW.... Hatriot is a made up word. I'm not going to be like you and harp on you about it though. Not my style.

[jberryhill]

You're giving me grief for getting my information on the web and you just did the same thing!

You see, Fab, this is what I mean by an inability to critically evaluate information.

You will note that the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation, as well as the other page, includes actual citations to actual quotes.

And, no, you didn't even source a web site of any kind, let alone one which includes citations to actual sources.

However, yes, I will consider the TJ Memorial Foundation, which operates the Jefferson Library and Monticello, to be an authoritative source of what Jefferson did, and did not, say.

If you can't grasp why, then I can't help you. But I did come to your defense on the implication that I was accusing you of making them up.

BTW.... Hatriot is a made up word.

Yes, all words are made up words. Making up a word for literary effect is different from not being able to properly use ones which have already been made up.

As Abraham Lincoln often said, "ROFL, Dude - Pwnz3rs!"

[Gerry]

Does interjecting another member's name into a thread that has nothing to do with the thread or topic add any credibility to the thread?

Or topic?

Or to the person who said it?

[Gerry]

Does interjecting another member's name into a thread that has nothing to do with the thread or topic add any credibility to the thread?

Or topic?

Or to the person who said it?

[slumbum]

I like his quote.

"I love you Sally, and I shall take full responsibility for giving you your freedom, and raising my Mulatto child as a full citizen."

OK, he wasn't that enlightened.

[fab]

Does interjecting another member's name into a thread that has nothing to do with the thread or topic add any credibility to the thread?

Or topic?

Or to the person who said it?

The idea is not making personal attacks on those who disagree with you.

[jberryhill]

I like his quote.

"I love you Sally, and I shall take full responsibility for giving you your freedom, and raising my Mulatto child as a full citizen."

OK, he wasn't that enlightened.

ROFL... I was going to bring that up.

Jefferson was no doubt brilliant, and also no doubt a man of his time.

When people talk about the "founder's intentions", that should be tempered by a realistic view that they intended to have slaves and did not intend that women should vote. Deifying these complex, intelligent, and quite human men, and reducing their political thought to bumper-sticker slogans, is not useful.

It is certainly food for thought that the same man who wrote brilliant pieces about human freedom also bought a woman (and other people), used her for sex, and did not expressly acknowledge the resulting children. This is not what we understand as twenty first century US "family values", but that is also the wrong context in which to make judgments.

[Gerry]

The idea is not making personal attacks on those who disagree with you.

I confront those that confront me head on. That happens to be my style. That is my survivalist instinct.

The mere mentioning of someone else and pointing out their shortcomings (as in they don't know any better or any different) for the sake of comparison and to drive home a point is a classless act.

[slumbum]

Man of his time...no, that justified his poor choices. The Quakers stood for their beliefs. I feel like I can use the word M*latto to descibe another human, because I am one. He could have loved Sally Hemmings, and he could have loved her, hell for all we know she could have been his muse. But, as i undrstand it he didn't free his slaves in his will, which was a common practice of men of conscience at that time.

My Pop was a white, WWII soldier returning home. When I told him Black vets had to ride behind German Prisoners of war on buses returning home, he said "That was the law of the land then."

Now, my Dad loved a beautiful black woman 20 years younger than he...with all his heart. It was a shame he was silent. If times and laws of the land supercede conscience...where would we be?

[south]

Man of his time...no, that justified his poor choices. The Quakers stood for their beliefs. I feel like I can use the word M*latto to descibe another human, because I am one. He could have loved Sally Hemmings, and he could have loved her, hell for all we know she could have been his muse. But, as i undrstand it he didn't free his slaves in his will, which was a common practice of men of conscience at that time.

My Pop was a white, WWII soldier returning home. When I told him Black vets had to ride behind German Prisoners of war on buses returning home, he said "That was the law of the land then."

Now, my Dad loved a beautiful black woman 20 years younger than he...with all his heart. It was a shame he was silent. If times and laws of the land supercede conscience...where would we be?

Wow.
I'm impressed. You are a good person to overlook others faults. Well done!

[jberryhill]

My Pop was a white, WWII soldier returning home. When I told him Black vets had to ride behind German Prisoners of war on buses returning home, he said "That was the law of the land then."

My father was an officer in WWII and was recalled for Korea, and assigned to the command of an all Black unit at Fort Benning. Their company portrait is hilarious - 60 black guys and one skinny white guy with a pair of Captain's bars.

He was raised on a farm in North Carolina, and was as racist to the core as his parents. It was his experience in that command that turned him around completely, and my father made it very clear to us growing up that he would disown us if we grew up to be like his parents.

Racial desegregation of the US military was an interesting move at the time, and a real catalyst for progress. Of course, many thought it was the end of the world.

What we know of the Jefferson/Heming relationship was that it was, as far as can be understood in the context, one of mutual love. However, given the power inequity, in cannot be said to be wholly "voluntary". The more interesting story is the relatively recent one of the organization of Jefferson's descendants to recognize and accept the descendants of Sally Hemings into the organization. I believe someone notable said, "The arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice." (can't quite place the speaker)

(and in an odd footnote on my father's service, he was in the 89th Infantry division with Barack Obama's uncle, Charles Payne)