US arrogance strikes again !

[Ehsan]

Originally Posted by bd77

A member of the religion of Peace has spoken. Would it make sense if because of your statement I decided to hate all of Pakistan?

hate it if you want to , religion has nothing to do with it i hate the actions taken by American and many more people of the world you are just another yank hating everyone that says something against you papa bush,

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Ehsan

hate it if you want to , religion has nothing to do with it i hate the actions taken by American and many more people of the world you are just another yank hating everyone that says something against you papa bush,

He was giving an example. It seems that you're basing your dislike towards America based on the decisions of a couple of people.

How would you like it if people started to say that they hated Pakistan or Pakistanis (is that the correct term?) for something Mushariff (sp?) did?

Plenty of people in the US don't like Bush but love the country, they do not have to go hand in hand. it is our privelage to not like our government and our privelage to speak out against it.

Also, don't forget, before the US, for saying things like you're saying would get you thrown in jail at least (most of the time put to death) in most of the world and there are still many countries in the world that are still like this. The US is one country that started these basic principles, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, human rights, etc.

Complain all you want, it is your right thanks to principles set forth by the founding fathers of the US.

Also, the last time the US didn't "get involved" with something big a little thing (note: sarcasm on little) called the holocaust happened (World War II).

Don't blame the people who what governments do. It's not the people, it's the governments that start wars, just look at what's going on in Central and Soutn America right now.

Added:
Also, this should be a wake up call for international domainers and web developers. Check your registrar, hosting, DNS, etc.. the countries that all that goes though fall under those country's jurisdiction (IMO - it shouldn't, but it does). It is the same loophole that phishers use to not get caught.

[PREDATOR]

Originally Posted by draggar

Plenty of people in the US don't like Bush but love the country, they do not have to go hand in hand. it is our privelage to not like our government and our privelage to speak out against it.

agreed

Originally Posted by draggar

Also, don't forget, before the US, for saying things like you're saying would get you thrown in jail at least (most of the time put to death) in most of the world and there are still many countries in the world that are still like this. The US is one country that started these basic principles, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, human rights, etc.

lol, before the 'u.s.' lol
you need to check the history books there dude, also take alook around your country now.
also you still put people to death, i actually agree with that for the worst offenders incidentally.

Originally Posted by draggar

Complain all you want, it is your right thanks to principles set forth by the founding fathers of the US.

thats a crazy statement

Originally Posted by draggar

Also, the last time the US didn't "get involved" with something big a little thing (note: sarcasm on little) called the holocaust happened (World War II).

the US made a late entrance into the forray, a very welcome one, but that is the last time they didnt screw up big time in ANY war conflict.
i cannot think of any other nation that has made quite so many ill-judged decisions in any wartime situation, or started as many wars

Originally Posted by draggar

Don't blame the people who what governments do. It's not the people, it's the governments that start wars,

i'll agree with that


i dont normally get involved too much with these type pf threads, but you gotta get out your head about the US being the worlds saviour, they are doing a very good job of f*cking the world up. it doesn't need a lot of help.

also, don't forget, collectively you voted that retard in, again, and again, and again

[draggar]

Originally Posted by PREDATOR

lol, before the 'u.s.' lol
you need to check the history books there dude, also take alook around your country now.
also you still put people to death, i actually agree with that for the worst offenders incidentally.

The death penalty is a different issue, but we don't put people to death for saying they don't like the government, only severe actions like murder, mass rape, treason, etc. Before the US revolution (and French Revolution) the world was run by a few dozen monarchies that didn't tolerate their people speaking out aganst them. How many wifes did Henry VIII behead and for what?

Go to North Korea, Iran, or several other countries and speak out against the government and let me know how it goes, if you survive.

There are still "ethnic cleansings" going on today, people are fighting (and killing) based on religion.

the US made a late entrance into the forray, a very welcome one, but that is the last time they didnt screw up big time in ANY war conflict.
i cannot think of any other nation that has made quite so many ill-judged decisions in any wartime situation, or started as many wars

I'll have to agree, but many of the conflicts today were also created by colonization policies set by England, Spain, France, Italy, and other colonizing nations. Look at the Middle east, different ethic groups are all struggling for power. Small ethic groups were put into power and had control over much larger ones who had no voice and then the UN (or was it the League of Nations?) allowed Israel to form in the middle east. India / Pakistan issue with Kashmir issue is also a result of that (at least that's what we're shown in school here). Borders were set up based on colonies, spheres of influence, and trade routs, not ethnic groups.

(And yes, the Middle East has historically been a hot spot for war even going back thousands of years).

i dont normally get involved too much with these type pf threads, but you gotta get out your head about the US being the worlds saviour, they are doing a very good job of f*cking the world up. it doesn't need a lot of help

I didn't say the US saved the world nor did I say the US hasn't f-ed anything up recently (Vietnam War, anyone?). But all goverments make decisions that aren't in the worlds' best interests (hell, many are made not in the country's best interest).

But, the founding fathers (>300 years ago) had some very radical ideas for the time. Their isolation and dedication allowed the to "win" (and I use that term loosely) the revolutionary war and start a new nation with these radical ideas, resurrecting a form of government that had disappeared when Rome fell (a republic). A lot of other countries changed after that, look at the UK. No longer does the royal family have all the power they used to (do they have any significant power now other than ceremonial?), most of it is in the parliment (elected officials).

No, the us didn't "save" the world, but it did open up some eyes around the world. We, the poeple (no pun intended) are the ones who need to save the world, not our governments.

Also, a lot of people think "loving your country" and "loving your government" are the same and they are not. I'm going to piss off the US sniffers when I say this, but I think Vietnam, Cuba, Russia, Venuzuela (sp?), and Iran are beautiful countries (I've seen pictures from people who actually lived there for a long time). Too bad our governments can't get along. I would LOVE to take a vacation in each of those countries (take that CIA).

I love my country, yes, but I do not like a lot of the things that my government does.

[PREDATOR]

Originally Posted by draggar

The death penalty is a different issue, but we don't put people to death for saying they don't like the government, only severe actions like murder, mass rape, treason, etc. Before the US revolution (and French Revolution)


the world was run by a few dozen monarchies that didn't tolerate their people speaking out aganst them. How many wifes did Henry VIII behead and for what?

yes. on the death penalty issue, we dont have it as strictly speaking any country (eu) that adheres to human rights bills cant.
this is a never ending discussion in itself lol, but the majority of people want it for paedophiles etc, quite rightly.

the Henry 8th thing, yes lol, well history is littered with psychopaths, even in our very own Royal Family
That was about 500 years ago though, hundreds of years before your 'young' country earned its stripes . lol, had to get that one in.

i am in no illusion dude, my own country has on the one hand a brilliant history, on the other hand a despicable one.

lets just take the Native Americans. look what you did to them, look what we did to them. look how you're still treating them?

Originally Posted by draggar

Go to North Korea, Iran, or several other countries and speak out against the government and let me know how it goes, if you survive.

There are still "ethnic cleansings" going on today, people are fighting (and killing) based on religion.

i am well aware of all of that, and ethnic cleansing was a lot closer to home and was happening recently very close by in Europe no less.
i'm all for helping the world and intervening where necessary. i wish the UN would have a force to be reckoned with rather than being 'observers' and standing by and watching massacres which they have before in the old Yugosalvia

Originally Posted by draggar

I'll have to agree, but many of the conflicts today were also created by colonization policies set by England, Spain, France, Italy, and other colonizing nations. Look at the Middle east, different ethic groups are all struggling for power. Small ethic groups were put into power and had control over much larger ones who had no voice and then the UN (or was it the League of Nations?) allowed Israel to form in the middle east. India / Pakistan issue with Kashmir issue is also a result of that (at least that's what we're shown in school here). Borders were set up based on colonies, spheres of influence, and trade routs, not ethnic groups.

(And yes, the Middle East has historically been a hot spot for war even going back thousands of years).

i agree, and am aware of many of the past and current mistakes being made. The UK has a lot to answer for too.
Unforunately the world is so small now, but some cultures are worlds apart, i'm not sure if they will ever be bridged, nor need they be, as long as we can live side by side.
What seems to make that impossible is religious hatred and differences.

Political differences and bad policy from outside the area often only make things worse.



tbh i think we are coming from same place on many things but the US resembles somewhere now ironically as one of the places it loves to hate.
Guantanemo, cia flights, 'illegal wars', from a 'neutral's' point of view, if i can be, being British, not sure lol , i am looking at America aghast in many ways, sorry to say that.

I have travelled widely and plan to do much much more but the US is way down on my list of cultural treasures i'm sorry to say. I also have reservations about your country, in the same way i would be thoughtful visiting the philippines or somewhere, that may seem crazy to you, but get used to it, the US reputation on the world stage is piss poor.
You obviously keep your eyes open on world affairs, but unfortunately your media has its head up its own *** too, which doesnt help the general knowledge of the masses.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by PREDATOR

lets just take the Native Americans. look what you did to them, look what we did to them. look how you're still treating them?

Yep, I won't deny the US' black marks. Some are living a life of luxure now, too. A lot of reservations now have casinos (since they are exempt to some laws and don't have to pay taxes on them) and Florida Seminoles get paid each month a portion of the proceeds from the casino (some rumored to be as high as $3,000 a month).

i am well aware of all of that, and ethnic cleansing was a lot closer to home and was happening recently very close by in Europe no less.
i'm all for helping the world and intervening where necessary. i wish the UN would have a force to be reckoned with rather than being 'observers' and standing by and watching massacres which they have before in the old Yugosalvia

I fully agree. The UN has become full of politicians just like most governments. Right now the UN seems useless. They didn't do anything when Hussein was trying to shoot down fighters patrolling the UN mandated no-fly zone in Iraq but quickly complained when one fighter fired back.

i agree, and am aware of many of the past and current mistakes being made. The UK has a lot to answer for too.

And many countries are trying to hide their history or show it form a different site. The US Revolution for example.

• In the US it was a struggle of the pool colonists fighting for thier freedom against an iron-fisted ruling tyrant thousands of miles away and we defeated their mighty army
• In the UK it was a bunch of spoiled colonists who were acting bratty complaining that they had to pay the same taxes a lot of England citizens had to pay. They started killing England's solders (and called it a "war") so England just gave up or abandoned the colonies.

Unforunately the world is so small now, but some cultures are worlds apart, i'm not sure if they will ever be bridged, nor need they be, as long as we can live side by side.
What seems to make that impossible is religious hatred and differences.

To quote Ronald Regan (not direct, but the same point):

There will never be a time of true peace on this planet until something comes along and threatens us all, then we'll quickly learn to pur our differences aside and learn we're all humans".

Political differences and bad policy from outside the area often only make things worse.

And those who blindly follow them. People need to be educated with a very open mind to be able to find as close to the truth as they can get.

I have travelled widely and plan to do much much more but the US is way down on my list of cultural treasures i'm sorry to say. I also have reservations about your country, in the same way i would be thoughtful visiting the philippines or somewhere, that may seem crazy to you, but get used to it, the US reputation on the world stage is piss poor.

I see it, don't worry. My government has done a lot of things to piss off a lot of people, at home and abroad. The government's priorties are out of wack with the public's priorities. For decades the US ignored Central and South America and now look, a lot of nations are buddy-buddy with countires the US isn't good friend with, like China and Russia (Cuban Missle Crisis / Bay of Pigs, anyone?).

Come down to Miami, it's rich in culture. Little Havana, Hialeah, very strong Carribean influences here, even Key West. Too bad a lot of the US doesn't take pride in culture like this.

You obviously keep your eyes open on world affairs, but unfortunately your media has its head up its own *** too, which doesnt help the general knowledge of the masses.

The media, ALL media, gives biased views to benefit their own ajenda, CNN, Fox, Al-Jazeera, etc. I love reading stories from news sites in other countries, it can be a real eye-opener at times. Imagine what the headlines said in Tokyo on Dec 8, 1941?

BTW - I will admit, the US does a shitty job with breeding dogs. :(

[aZooZa]

Originally Posted by sdsinc

True patriots love their country and hate their government

That *has* to be the best quote of 2008 so far. Brilliant.

[PREDATOR]

agreed.
it is knocked into second place by her quote on the mobile internet tho

[Ehsan]

dont want to loose myself in this pointless debate how the freaking US is the best Human tights career in the world my a*** but i do know that not every US citizen is Like Bush and i am believe almost half of the world's problem(including many in Pakistan currently) is the US Govt and I DO SUPPORT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF he is the best leader for Pakistan and his actions are in the interest of the country rather than himself ! thats ALL cant waste my time on this silly debate

[mulligan]

Knock yourselves out guys ... Ya think what any of you say is gonna make a difference??

[aZooZa]

Not really. Especially rants and raves as opined above; e.g. "tights" and "Musharraf". I didn't know he wore tights? So 80's.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Ehsan

dont want to loose myself in this pointless debate how the freaking US is the best Human tights career in the world my a*** but i do know that not every US citizen is Like Bush and i am believe almost half of the world's problem(including many in Pakistan currently) is the US Govt and I DO SUPPORT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF he is the best leader for Pakistan and his actions are in the interest of the country rather than himself ! thats ALL cant waste my time on this silly debate

Ehsan: The US is the root of all evil. Hold on just a minute, Osama bin Laden is at the door asking for a cup of sugar again.

[seanboy]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Ehsan: The US is the root of all evil. Hold on just a minute, Osama bin Laden is at the door asking for a cup of sugar again.

LOL