US Border Patrol union rep: It's okay to shoot Mexican kids who throw stones

[CureCancer]

He got shot in the head, what is wrong with the border patrol? Disturbing news!

After listening to this NPR News piece on a Border Patrol agent shooting a 14-year-old Mexican child near the Juarez/El Paso border, Boing Boing pal Drew Carey noted on Twitter, "I agree the Border Patrol has a tough job, but shooting rock-throwers should be a no-go. Find a non-lethal way to handle it." Couldn't agree more, and I say that as someone who's aware of what a dangerous and chaotic place that part of the border is. I've spent a lot of time around the border, and on both sides of it, in California/Baja.
According to the NPR News piece, the union rep for Border Patrol agents says it is alright for agents to shoot Mexican children who throw rocks at them.
"There are so many non-lethal weapons available to law enforcement." Drew tweeted, "Has the Border Patrol even considered them?"

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/08...atrol-uni.html

[Infoproliferati]

I cannot even begin to imagine how this border patrol agent will react among rock throwers or hostile passers-by in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan. Poor kid.

[INVIGOR]

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[TheLegendaryJP]

Let me ask you all,what exactly would you do if you were the patrol?

[INVIGOR]

...

[TheLegendaryJP]

That would depend on the situation.

Ok lets say for example I stood across from you and threw stones at your head, what level of force ( assuming you have the legal right to use any ) would you choose.

Keep in mind you would be setting a standard and its very likely I will return tomorrow to throw stones at your head if I can as you cannot detain/arrest me.

[JB Lions]

When I first read it, shooting somebody for throwing rocks, my first response is no. We used to get into rock fights (or chesnuts) for fun when I was a little kid. So first I have this picture of a 14 yr old kid throwing rocks from some distance, so no, I don't think he should be shot in the head. But when I read more into the story, it's more they had one person detained on the ground and they were surrounded with people throwing rocks and they could be big rocks, which can do some damage. I think there is more to this story that needs to come out so we can get a better picture of what actually went on and we might not even get that.

[INVIGOR]

...

[Seraphim]

According to the media reports, the "rocks" were the size of small cobblestones. If an American citizen threw a rock that size at a police officer who is vulnerable or "in pursuit of a criminal", it's highly likely that you would be shot. Riots are a little different obviously, as the police officers are better equipped to deal with heavy incoming projectiles, and usually have nonlethal weapons on-hand to counter it with, such as rubber bullets, tear gas, etc.

A story like this taking place in Detroit isn't going to draw that many readers. With border tensions simmering however, and this happening in El Paso, BOOM!... it's national news because it generates national news level profits. Gray the lines a little, add some spin, create some buzz, and poof, we're all talking about it like a toddler threw a pebble at a police officer's shoe, and was shot execution style.

Spin generates hysteria, hysteria generates media profits...

[tekz999]

1. What if the kid throwing is a grenade?
2. Kids should never go play in the border, it is sensitive area.
3. Kids should never throw stones at anyone regardless of age.
4. What if the kid was a attention grabber, and there was actually a terrorist sniper behind the trees aiming at the patrol?
5. Has a warning been issued prior to the shoot out?

There are many views and questions about this, and there is not enough information to jump into any conclusion really.

[CureCancer]

at end of the day, shooting a boy in the head is wrong. Mexico is a US Ally and Neighbor - the soldier could have wounded him. A clear head shot is awful and cruel.

[Seraphim]

at end of the day, shooting a boy in the head is wrong. Mexico is a US Ally and Neighbor - the soldier could have wounded him. A clear head shot is awful and cruel.

Sad situation, no doubt about it. All could have been avoided had that simple Golden Rule been followed, which is don't throw stones at people with guns, especially large stones...

The US isn't the UK or Sweden. If you throw a huge chunk of stone or a Molotov cocktail at a police officer, chances are you're going to get shot, and quite possibly in the head. For me personally, when I see videos of European police officers being chased out of a neighborhood by a mob of rioting thugs brandishing fire bombs and bricks, I usually think to myself, "hey, maybe our tougher police policies here in the US aren't so bad after all."

Anyone here taken a drivers ed course? They spend a good deal of time teaching people proper conduct during traffic stops, and all so you don't get shot. [1] Keep both hands on the steering wheel where the officer can see them. [2] No abrupt sudden movements. [3] Let the officer know if you're going to reach into the glove box.

For better or worse, you don't screw around with US police officers, unless of course you like to gamble with your life...

[CureCancer]

Sad situation, no doubt about it. All could have been avoided had that simple Golden Rule been followed, which is don't throw stones at people with guns, especially large stones...

The US isn't the UK or Sweden. If you throw a huge chunk of stone or a Molotov cocktail at a police officer, chances are you're going to get shot, and quite possibly in the head. For me personally, when I see videos of European police officers being chased out of a neighborhood by a mob of rioting thugs brandishing fire bombs and bricks, I usually think to myself, "hey, maybe our tougher police policies here in the US aren't so bad after all."

Anyone here taken a drivers ed course? They spend a good deal of time teaching people proper conduct during traffic stops, and all so you don't get shot. [1] Keep both hands on the steering wheel where the officer can see them. [2] No abrupt sudden movements. [3] Let the officer know if you're going to reach into the glove box.

For better or worse, you don't screw around with US police officers, unless of course you like to gamble with your life...

So what your saying your policies are manufactured to KILL.

[Seraphim]

So what your saying your policies are manufactured to KILL.

There are pros and cons to living with the Second Amendment.

[PRED]

roll the clock forward 10 years and the U.S may have gone so far down the toilet that same 'guard' maybe queing up with his family trying to get in Mexico!

on a serious note, to shoot someone through the head, they would have to be
a/ very close
b/ lucky shot
c/ using a sight

obviously other factors too
so it was most probably a deliberate act. why not shoot in the thigh? disable him. if deemed that serious
why were they out in the open? the kids were still on mexican side i'm guessing and the agents on american side? so they c an't have been that bloody close

why couldn't a shot be fired in the air? a warning shot even
or even legged it? run back to U.S side

where's the compassion on this board? a child was killed. shot through the bloody head!
sure he shouldn't have thrown stones, but where are the details, things are cloudy.
what kid has never thrown stones at something he shouldn't
if that 'officer's' life wasn't at risk then he has committed murder in the eyes of the law. on a foreign national, and a child. he's a child killer. fact

the day you think this is 'okay' and 'acceptable' even with these cloudy facts. is the day you flushed your moral compass down the toilet

[Infoproliferati]

The need to request more more and more information when it is obvious the deed is wrong baffles me. A kid throwing rocks, ends up being shot in the head and we need more information for what exactly? To justify the patrol agent's actions? I certainly hope not. Even if he snapped, it still isn't right. Kids do very stupid things. If this happened in Iraq, this type of incident might have been palatable. The soldiers go through an incredible amount of daily stress with civilians cursing and hurling hardware at them. These soldiers don't go around aiming for a head shot. Anyone willing to carry a weapon must have a high level of tolerance. Sadly, that isn't usually the case.

I often wonder if police officers would be nicer to us all if fire weapons were banned. These days they react as if everyone is a criminal with a gun tucked hidden in his jacket.

[draggar]

Here's some questions that need to be asked:

1 - Did the shooter know the victim's age at the time he fired? If age is even relevant then what age would have been OK?
2 - Did the shooter think his life was at risk? For those of you who think rocks aren't dangerous, why don't we go and ask all the people who have been stoned to death - oh, wait, they're all dead.
3 - Was the shooter deliberately trying to kill the victim? From that distance he must be one hell of a shot to be able to get a headshot with a handgun (and the video shows he had the gun out at full-arms length).

It's funny how people can look at a situation and say "I would have acted differently" especially after more and more facts come out (like the shooting a few years ago where someone pointed an unloaded gun at a border patrol officer - everyone was mad because the gun wasn't loaded - how is someone looking at the wrong end of that barrel know?).

Look at the facts at the time it was happening:

The border patrol agent had detained either one or two people who had crossed into the USA illegally - there is no argument here.
The victim was throwing rocks (not "a rock", rocks) at the agent - there are no arguements here.

As mentioned before - if anyone does this to a police officer while they're chasing or detaining someone, you're looking at having many guns drawn at you and if you continue - you'll get shot.

As for "non-lethal" methods - how many of them did the patrol officer have at his disposal? You can take out tazers and pepper spray considering the distance between the shooter and the victom (video is on CNN.com).

Rubber bullets - how many agents keep these on hand at all times?

As for warning shots - shooting a gun in the air will do jack. That just tells the antagonist that you don't want to shoot them. If you shoot in their direction (trying to miss) that sends a different message.

Honestly, I think the agent did not intend to kill (or even hit) the victim (considering it would be nearly impossible to shoot someone in the head form that distance with a handgun held at arm's length.

Why are people making it sound like he shot the kid execution style?

[Seraphim]

Seems it's a long running issue, with quite a number of border patrol agents ending up hospitalized with cuts, fractured skulls, etc. Sounds like the "rock throwing" is more like a "shower of cobblestones" thrown by large groups of people.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/border/92111.php

The Feds need to finally send the National Guard out there in riot gear with all the non-lethal trimmings [rubber bullets, tear gas, etc]. With all hell breaking loose on the border, you would think our government would do something. They just found a silver mine stuffed full of corpses, some of which had their hearts cut out while they were alive. Not sure what the government is waiting for on this...

[south]

Any other country would have military on their border, shooting first & asking questions later. Why the double standard?

It's the border of a sovereign country.
Stay away.

Think the U.S. is bad?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...ow/6028704.cms

[Gerry]

Dogs, stun gun, tazer, flashbang, rubber bullets...heck I got shot with salt pellets once for jumping a fence and swimming in a frickin pond. And no, I wasn't throwing stones.

AHHHHHH HAAAAAAAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAHHHHHHHH

Must have happened in Ohio because the same shit happened to me...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA

LMAO because it is the exact scenario that I was doing...