Vote 100% not 50%

[Infoproliferati]

If you vote for anyone to any position of responsibility or authority, politician or not, keep in mind that the individual you are voting for isn't perfect and may not handle a crisis the way YOU expect.

Expressing disappointment about a particular response to any given crisis is acceptable. But going as far as to say "I wish I hadn't voted for so and so..." doesn't bode well. It amazes me how quickly we lose faith in people. 1 strike and you are done. I guess it's a luxury we can only afford each other once in this lifetime.

There is one instance when it is actually reasonable to voice out "I regret voting so and so..." That instance is when the person has exhausted every chance and is no longer in a position to influence the outcome of a dire situation. At this point there is room to see the bigger picture and admit "I voted for the wrong person."

Obama is still in office folks. Let the fellow work till the end. It's ok to criticize his actions. I bet if he could respond to us individually he'd be glad to oblige. But that's not gonna happen. The people who REALLY want to see some change and who placed their bets 100% on Monsieur Obama will give him the entirety of his term before they draw conclusions.

I consider myself a liberal. But I hardly admire the courage within the Democratic Party. They are spineless. The Republicans on the other hand rarely ever cast early judgment on their own. They may criticize but they wait till all is said and done. And even after that, they don't express disgust easily. I have yet to run into any sort of Republican, extreme right or center leaning, who will openly admit to having wrongly voted for Monsieur Bush. Even if they regretted it. It is rather interesting that Bush was voted into the top office TWICE. I guess we really do place faith in people after all.

We need to do the same for Obama. At least while his clock is still running.

[Raider]

"Let the fellow work till the end" Do we have a choice? Unfortunately were stuck with the Radical Liberal for another 2 years, What this is really about is preventing the further destruction to this Country by taking both houses of Congress away from him in November. It's about energizing voters to save this Country and keeping the American dream alive.

This is not about waiting for something to work, you might want to play it from that angle but it doesn't work well with me... What this President is doing is destructive and could take 20 years to undo, I'm standing up and rejecting what he's doing, I'm NOT uniting behind this guy and I'll be damn if I'm going to self censor myself and not speak out against him, not while he destroys this great country. Like I said, I REJECT what he's doing, I reject him wanting to give Amnesty to Millions of illegals when I worked my butt off to come to this Country the legally, I reject him trashing a States decision to protect against illegal immigration so his party can benefit at the voting booth in November. I reject what he's done spending 3 Trillion dollars that my Children and unborn grandchildren will have to pay for, He was elected YES, but he wasn't elected to rob the treasury and the futures of our Children.

[Gerry]

October 2008, George W. Bush raised the debt limit for the 4th time in 4 years and for the second time in only 3 months. George W. Bush raised the debt limit 7 times in the eight years he was in office; June 2002, May 2003, Nov 2004, March 2006, Sept 2007, July 2008 and Oct 2008. In 2001, the National Debt of $5.95 Trillion George W. Bush left office in 2009 with the National Debt at $10.6 Trillion. having raised the ceiling to $11.315 trillion from $8.9 Trillion. In all, almost doubling the debt during his presidency, after having entered office in 2001 with a budget surplus. George W. Bush has created a spiral of increasing debt that no one can be, rationally, expected to stop even within 1 or 2 years.

Lets not forget, this does not include special funding for 2 wars and a Prescription Drug plan that was passed in 2006 but, was never funded, to the tune of $800 billion.

Bush blew through nearly 3 Trillion in less than 3 months. And that amount was not enough.

But it does not matter anyways because the money is not there to begin with.


CBS News Report
September 29, 2008 12:20 PM

With no fanfare and little notice, the national debt has grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush's presidency.

It's the biggest increase under any president in U.S history.

On the day President Bush took office, the national debt stood at $5.727 trillion. The latest number from the Treasury Department shows the national debt now stands at more than $9.849 trillion. That's a 71.9 percent increase on Mr. Bush's watch.

The bailout plan now pending in Congress could add hundreds of billions of dollars to the national debt – though President Bush said this morning he expects that over time, "much if not all" of the bailout money "will be paid back."


Of course, the government doesn't have that money either. It's been spent.

President Bush made that point himself on April 5, 2005, when he paid a visit to the offices of the Bureau of the Public Debt in Parkersburg, W.Va.

He was shown a white file cabinet with keypad locks on each of its four drawers in which the Social Security Trust Fund is stored. On that day, there was no cash – as he noted in a speech later in the day.

"There is no 'trust fund,' just IOUs that I saw firsthand, that future generations will pay – will pay for either in higher taxes, or reduced benefits, or cuts to other critical government programs," he told an audience at West Virginia University.






Now, show me one instance in this post of mine that demonstrates support for Obama?

And show me those "seven years of prosperity" under Bush that was alleged in another thread.

[Infoproliferati]

This is not about waiting for something to work, you might want to play it from that angle but it doesn't work well with me... What this President is doing is destructive and could take 20 years to undo, I'm standing up and rejecting what he's doing, I'm NOT uniting behind this guy and I'll be damn if I'm going to self censor myself and not speak out against him, not while he destroys this great country. Like I said, I REJECT what he's doing, I reject him wanting to give Amnesty to Millions of illegals when I worked my butt off to come to this Country the legally, I reject him trashing a States decision to protect against illegal immigration so his party can benefit at the voting booth in November. I reject what he's done spending 3 Trillion dollars that my Children and unborn grandchildren will have to pay for, He was elected YES, but he wasn't elected to rob the treasury and the futures of our Children.

You could have just as easily been referring to Bush. Amnesty to millions of illegals was also an option during Bush's term. And he even considered it, though he never followed through. I suspect he would have wanted amnesty for illegal immigrants. But I don't think his party would have been able to swallow the idea.

A significant amount of the $3 trillion dollar stimulus package went to the private sector. Am I right? I don't know how much that stimulus package added up to in the end. Had Obama not done anything I can only imagine where the economy would have been today. At least he didn't create the problem. He was trying to revive the economy. It takes time for the macro-economic effects of an injection to be felt in any economy, especially the biggest one on the planet. Economics is very complicated.

Main St wasn't pleased to learn about all the aid that would be given to Wall St and all the other companies that could have run themselves better but didn't. But no one wanted the private sector to collapse. America is the poster boy for capitalism. The other companies and small businesses that are struggling to stay in business through no fault of their own needed aid as well.

As far as getting votes from people who have been granted amnesty, aren't you just being cynical? The road to naturalization takes a couple of years. By that time it would have been too late to vote for him.

--------------

Some solid numbers there Doc. Terrifying too.

[Gerry]

Amnesty being considered? How outrageous. How unAmerican. How so un-GOP.

2001 http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jul/17/local/me-23234
2004 http://www.seattlepi.com/national/15...igrants07.html
2005 http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...3001_mz001.htm
2007 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051700253.html

And it was under President Bush that authorization was given to allow Credit Cards for Illegal Aliens...yes, bank secured credit cards for illegal aliens. No Social Security Card needed, no proof of who your were, all signed, sealed, and approved by the Bush Bank and Trust.

The credit cards were openly offered and 100% targeted to illegal immigrants.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=7388709
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251672,00.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...fa_latino.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...n14credit.html

[Raider]

You could have just as easily been referring to Bush. Amnesty to millions of illegals was also an option during Bush's term. And he even considered it, though he never followed through. I suspect he would have wanted amnesty for illegal immigrants. But I don't think his party would have been able to swallow the idea.

If Bush did follow through with it, I'd be here trashing him for it too... And unlike Obama, Bush wasn't pushing for amnesty for the purpose of picking up votes to keep his party in power, This is what Obama is clearly trying to do, influence votes for his party in November, because he knows damn well their going to lose and they need all the help they can get.

As far as getting votes from people who have been granted amnesty, aren't you just being cynical? The road to naturalization takes a couple of years. By that time it would have been too late to vote for him.

Congress can easily work into the Bill that voter ID cards be issued, or a form be completed on election day.... It's not too difficult. Also the passage of such a amnesty bill would energize legal Hispanics who are able to vote.

And the road to naturalization or obtaining a Green card takes less than 6 months if your already here, It's takes 1-10 years if your abroad, depending on what petition your filing and what Country your filing it in.

A significant amount of the $3 trillion dollar stimulus package went to the private sector. Am I right?

The stimulus bill was actually $787 Billion, nearly 1 Trillion. And not all the money has been spent yet. But here are some places where the money has been spent;


* Study of monkeys using cocaine: $71,623; Wake Forest University was granted money to "study the effects of self-administering cocaine on the glutamate system on monkeys."

* North Carolina Dance Theatre: $50,000; this grant is used to retain four professional dancers from the North Carolina Dance Theatre's second company.

* Reducing hot flashes through yoga: $147,694; funds granted to Wake Forest University to study "preliminary data on the efficacy of integral yoga for reducing menopausal hot flashes."

* Collecting, researching and reporting on the stimulus act: $115,000; $150,000; $227,940 (total: $492,940); nearly half a million taxpayer dollars will go toward funding more propaganda selling the "benefits" of the stimulus plan.

* Create interactive dance performance technology: $762,372; this grant to UNC-Charlotte will fund the development of computer technology to digitally record the dance moves of performers so the recorded movements can then be reviewed and manipulated by a computer program.

* $300,000 for a GPS-equipped helicopter to hunt for radioactive rabbit droppings at the Hanford nuclear reservation in Washington state.

* $30 million for a spring training baseball complex for the Arizona Diamondbacks and Colorado Rockies.

* $11 million for Microsoft to build a bridge connecting its two headquarter campuses in Redmond, Wash., which are separated by a highway.

* $430,000 to repair a bridge in Iowa County, Wis., that carries 10 or fewer cars per day.

* $800,000 for the John Murtha Airport in Johnstown, Pa., serving about 20 passengers per day, to build a backup runway.

* $219,000 for Syracuse University to study the sex lives of freshmen women.

* $2.3 million for the U.S. Forest Service to rear large numbers of arthropods, including the Asian longhorned beetle, the nun moth and the woolly adelgid.

* $3.4 million for a 13-foot tunnel for turtles and other wildlife attempting to cross U.S. 27 in Lake Jackson, Fla.

* $1.15 million to install a guardrail for a persistently dry lake bed in Guymon, Okla.

* $9.38 million to renovate a century-old train depot in Lancaster County, Pa., that has not been used for three decades.

* $2.5 million in stimulus checks sent to the deceased.

* $6 million for a snow-making facility in Duluth, Minn.

* $173,834 to weatherize eight pickup trucks in Madison County, Ill.

* $20,000 for a fish sperm freezer at the Gavins Point National Fish Hatchery in South Dakota.

* $380,000 to spay and neuter pets in Wichita, Kan.

* $300 apiece for thousands of signs at road construction sites across the country announcing that the projects are funded by stimulus money.

* $1.5 million for a fence to block would-be jumpers from leaping off the All-American Bridge in Akron, Ohio.

* $1 million to study the health effects of environmentally friendly public housing on 300 people in Chicago.

* $356,000 for Indiana University to study childhood comprehension of foreign accents compared with native speech.

* $983,952 for street beautification in Ann Arbor, Mich., including decorative lighting, trees, benches and bike paths.

* $148,438 for Washington State University to analyze the use of marijuana in conjunction with medications like morphine.

* $462,000 to purchase 22 concrete toilets for use in the Mark Twain National Forest in Missouri

* $3.1 million to transform a canal barge into a floating museum that will travel the Erie Canal in New York state.

* $1.3 million on government arts jobs in Maine, including $30,000 for basket makers, $20,000 for storytelling and $12,500 for a music festival.

* $71,000 for a hybrid car to be used by student drivers in Colchester, Vt., as well as a plug-in hybrid for town workers decked out with a sign touting the vehicle's energy efficiency.

* $1 million for Portland, Ore., to replace 100 aging bike lockers and build a garage that would house 250 bicycles.


Keep in mind, this is money we DON'T have, were having to borrow it from Foreign countries....

How in the world is spending this kind of money on projects like these supposed to jump start the economy? It's NOT

---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 PM ----------

And it was under President Bush

Yeah, What Obama has done in the last 19 months is ALL Bush's fault...

LMAO!!!

[Gerry]

-- $233,000 to the University of California at San Diego to study why Africans vote.
-- $6 million in stimulus money to a California contractor under federal investigation for overcharging San Diego for cleanup after the 2007 wildfires
-- An aerospace company received $15 million to monitor water quality in a Ventura County creek it was already fined for polluting.
*California’s inspector general found that $1 million in stimulus funds for a program to give summer jobs to young people was improperly used for overhead expenses such as rent and utility bills.
* Mount Saint Mary's College: Genetic Control of Sensory Hair Cell Membrane Channeels in Zebrafish $327,337 Los Angeles

Take the Napa Valley Wine Train. The county received $54 million to build a railroad bridge, relocate a half-mile of track and build a flood wall to protect a wine train passenger station. The no-bid contract went to a minority-owned business operated by an Eskimo tribe outside Anchorage. The company then hired a real construction company for a fraction of what they were paid by the government to actually do the work.

Anyone can find out anything they want on how the stimulus money was being mis-spent.

But, it is so damn funny how everyone was against it but no one turned away. Hell, I won't even bother posting all those photo ops of governors and congressmen holding those "super size me" checks in their hands giving to the entity. Usually these photo ops were made by speeches of how they "fought to get the money" and "without this money, this business would die" scripted speech.


See, what the GOP is hoping for is that Americans have short term memory.

They hope Americans will not notice what it went thru in the last years of Bush.

They hope Americans will not remember that in the final three months in office, debt was spiraling out of control having just burned through 3 Trillion bucks in less than 3 months.

They hope American's don't remember how the answer to US Healthcare was to limit malpractice suits to $250K, 40% of the Hispanic vote went to W in 2004, illegal immigration was a $19 billion a year untapped market (the GOP even did a study on this), the GOP's plan for illegal immigration was to grant them amnesty and give them credit cards so the banks could charge fees to a whole new sector of our economy...

and on and on.

Seems the only answers the GOP did not have were how to stop two wars and WMD's.

The GOP hopes you, the American voter, is stupid and suffer from short term memory. And the GOP wants to convince you that had McCain won, the McCain/Palin ticket would have had all of this nation's ill would have been worked out, solve, resolved, and there would be no unemployment and the Oil leak would have ceased in day 2.

[Raider]

Why is it that in every thread which is primarily about Obama, you respond with what Bush did?

How does Bush's past actions justify bad behavior?

Is it because your having trouble defending Obama on policy? Must be, it's pretty weak if you ask me, but I would expect no less from you.


You know how your signature reads; "The GOP is a bunch of Pussies"? I think your the biggest pussy of them all.

At least he didn't create the problem. He was trying to revive the economy. It takes time for the macro-economic effects of an injection to be felt in any economy, especially the biggest one on the planet. Economics is very complicated.

Your right, Obama did not create the problem, he just made it worse than it was.

Here's a little more info for you on the stimulus;


Was the stimulus worth the cost?
By: Susan Ferrechio
Chief Congressional Correspondent
November 3, 2009

- The White House last week announced more than 640,000 jobs were created or saved by spending $159 billion in stimulus funds, but economists question the figure, saying it is impossible to calculate jobs that are saved. ABC News calculated each job cost taxpayers $160,000.

- More than half the jobs were in education, not the private sector, as promised by the Obama administration. Just 80,000 jobs were in construction.

- Nearly 690,000 cars were sold during Cash for Clunkers, but just 125,000 were purchased as a result of the program, leading analysts at Edmunds Auto Observer to calculate each car purchase cost taxpayers $24,000.

- According to Brookings Institution, 85 percent of recent home sales would have happened regardless of the first-time homebuyer tax credit, which means the cost of each $8,000 rebate for taxpayers is $43,000.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/po...#ixzz0tojM0y2S

[Gerry]

It would take a kunt to know a kunt.

It is not so much about defending Obama as it is shooting every one of your thoughts and theories to hell.

You always point out Obama did this, is doing that... when your little pin head forgets your boy George did the same thing.

You want to point out the budget thing as if it is only an Obama thing.

You want to point out the immigration thing as if it is only an Obama thing.

You have no idea how stupid and ignorant you appear.

And I don't want you to forget how stupid and ignorant you are.

As long as you are going to continue to post sh*t about politics like its the first time it has ever happened and the GOP is sinless and blameless, I'll be your reality check.

[Raider]

It would take a kunt to know a kunt.

It is not so much about defending Obama as it is shooting every one of your thoughts and theories to hell.

You always point out Obama did this, is doing that... when your little pin head forgets your boy George did the same thing.

You want to point out the budget thing as if it is only an Obama thing.

You want to point out the immigration thing as if it is only an Obama thing.

You have no idea how stupid and ignorant you appear.

And I don't want you to forget how stupid and ignorant you are.

As long as you are going to continue to post sh*t about politics like its the first time it has ever happened and the GOP is sinless and blameless, I'll be your reality check.

My God, your the biggest crybaby on earth, in your case a 60 year old crybaby....

George Bush did this and George Bush did that so it's perfectly OK for Obama to do it, what a F*cking moron you are.

Did it ever enter that dumb skull of yours that I DON'T support Bush on fiscal policy?, I never did and here you are suggesting that just because Bush is a Republican that I do. Guilty by association of the my party is that it?

I doubt this has anything to do with me, but rather has more to do with the fact your nothing but an Obama whore who peddles in blaming Bush for all our woes.

[draggar]

* $300,000 for a GPS-equipped helicopter to hunt for radioactive rabbit droppings at the Hanford nuclear reservation in Washington state.

* $30 million for a spring training baseball complex for the Arizona Diamondbacks and Colorado Rockies.

* $11 million for Microsoft to build a bridge connecting its two headquarter campuses in Redmond, Wash., which are separated by a highway.

* $430,000 to repair a bridge in Iowa County, Wis., that carries 10 or fewer cars per day.

* $800,000 for the John Murtha Airport in Johnstown, Pa., serving about 20 passengers per day, to build a backup runway.

* $3.4 million for a 13-foot tunnel for turtles and other wildlife attempting to cross U.S. 27 in Lake Jackson, Fla.

* $1.15 million to install a guardrail for a persistently dry lake bed in Guymon, Okla.

* $9.38 million to renovate a century-old train depot in Lancaster County, Pa., that has not been used for three decades.

* $380,000 to spay and neuter pets in Wichita, Kan.

* $300 apiece for thousands of signs at road construction sites across the country announcing that the projects are funded by stimulus money.

* $1.5 million for a fence to block would-be jumpers from leaping off the All-American Bridge in Akron, Ohio.

* $983,952 for street beautification in Ann Arbor, Mich., including decorative lighting, trees, benches and bike paths.

* $462,000 to purchase 22 concrete toilets for use in the Mark Twain National Forest in Missouri

* $3.1 million to transform a canal barge into a floating museum that will travel the Erie Canal in New York state.

* $1.3 million on government arts jobs in Maine, including $30,000 for basket makers, $20,000 for storytelling and $12,500 for a music festival.

* $1 million for Portland, Ore., to replace 100 aging bike lockers and build a garage that would house 250 bicycles.


Keep in mind, this is money we DON'T have, were having to borrow it from Foreign countries....

How in the world is spending this kind of money on projects like these supposed to jump start the economy? It's NOT

All these would (hopefully) bring people out of unemployment (or the verge of) and back to work. Sure, a lot of it should be funded by private organizations (like the baseball stadiums and Microsoft bridge) but even those would pump some money into the local economy.

I don't mind the money being spent to help create jobs (but yes, borrowing the money isn't very good).

[whitebark]

Why is it that in every thread which is primarily about Obama, you respond with what Bush did?

Well duh! The guy has to clean up after eight of the most disastrous years America has ever faced economically. He left Obama's government the worst recession in 70 years! Or did you already conveniently forget about that? I know some on the American far-right have memory issues and a view of history that doesn't extend more than 10 years or past their own borders but come on now!

And drop the 'fiscal conservative' bit. You wouldn't know a fiscal conservative if it came and sat on your head. Obama is not perfect and the democrats save an issue or two are not far removed from the republicans, but Bush supporters really are the cream that didn't rise.

[Gerry]

And drop the 'fiscal conservative' bit.

Well, duh...what else would doubling the national debt and raising the ceiling 7 times, twice in the last 6 months in Office, be called?

Duh, hello...by conservative standards, it could have been tripling the debt and raising the ceiling 8 times.

Duh, does everything have to be explained to you?

[500,000]

...

[Raider]

Well duh! The guy has to clean up after eight of the most disastrous years America has ever faced economically. He left Obama's government the worst recession in 70 years! Or did you already conveniently forget about that?

Your delusional... Either that or the Arizona heat has fried your brain, why don't you GO back to Canada and cool it off OK?

Their are 2 types of people blaming the recession on Bush; Those who are misinformed and Liberal jerks off like you, Jerk offs who ignore the fact that Sub-Prime loans and the collapse of Fannine and Freddy were MOSTLY to blame for what happened... If you pulled your head out of your ass and did a little bit of Googling, you would KNOW that Bush saw the dangers ahead and tried to reform Fanny and Freddy, but crooked Democrats like Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd blocked the regulation, The very democrats who held the majority in congress for the last 2 years of Bush's term, did you know that?

And yet dumb drones like you beat the same drum over and over that Bush is to blame, Not just for the recession but for everything under the sun for the last 19 months. You think that's going to work for you from now until November? I don't think so

The guy has to clean up after eight of the most disastrous years America has ever faced economically.

"8 of the most disastrous years economically"



Who are you trying to sell this crap to? Yeah, the economy was SO disastrous that the American people voted Bush in for a second term.

And YOU "Whitebark" know better than anyone of us Americans because YOU lived in CANADA at the time!. What a moron you are. A moron who attempts to pass judgement on an economy he knows NOTHING about.

Here we have the Obama plan and the Bush plan to create jobs in the private sector, Do you at least have the brains to tell me which one worked and which one didn't?

[Mike Cruz]

*YAWN*

I use to look forward to coming onto DNForum and seeing some political fights... but now, its just the same ol' bullshit over and over and over and not talking about one particular person, but everyone.

[500,000]

...

[Raider]

I consider myself a liberal.

I must of missed this when I first read your OP... I admire you for coming out and saying it.

One thing I cant stand is somebody who hides their ideology, I'm referring to the Liberal cowards on this Forum, Cowards like DocCom who claim to be Conservative and yet takes the Liberal position on every issue, trashing Conservatives in the process.. If your not honest with the reader, your simply not going to earn the readers full respect and trust.