Wha??? Obama Domestic Army???

[themew]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=80539

[500,000]

Love Wins

[Gerry]

Isn't this a terrible thing to do...in exchange for community service tuition assistance...

Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free.

Isn't it great that peeps can only print part of the story.

It is a goal, not a requirement.

Taken directly from Change.gov, the site your source, um, quotes?

[tldrental]

dude.....dude.....dude....dude....!DUDE!

Did you check this video
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=77052

wow lucky this shit didnt come out before the election..

This again is a remembrance to Nazism, and the Hitler youth

[Gerry]

dude.....dude.....dude....dude....!DUDE!

Did you check this video
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=77052

wow lucky this shit didnt come out before the election..

This again is a remembrance to Nazism, and the Hitler youth

Ok, for all those that believe this was endorsed by Obama, stand up and cheer.

I saw his Grandmother in Kenya and the town's people in that village dancing and cheering. In homage to and as a tribute to his grandfather and namesake, they were cheering "Mr. Obama. You sired a king."

What else should I fear?

School kids creating a video and a rap and a march?

All of a sudden it is the blacks, not the white skin heads, portraying images of Nazism and Hitler?

You obviously have not been around many colleges and seen numerous black fraternities who have been dressing up in combat boots and marching in unison and stomping as a pledge drill. I always thought it was pretty cool to demonstrate togetherness and discipline. Been done for decades.

Seriously, others can be scared as hell over a race war and whatever other omen they want to concoct. I would rather put faith in fellow man and decency prevailing above all else.

-------------------------

Not sure what to think of this guy.

I think he is up to something.

Another plot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY

Night all.

Enough "entertainment" for one day,

[tldrental]

I dont know man, if this propaganda or not it doesn't matter, i did find it real funny to watch

I think making the youth of America contribute to its beauty is a good thing as long as it doesn't go to far and involve a form of schooling and or brain washing.


I think if I remember my history from world war 2, the Hitler youth started out by being community activist and contributors, doing good deeds for the young and old, but that slowly changed.

again my facts my not be correct on this one I opening admit.

It could be worse, in Italy you have no choice but to spend a couple years in military when you become of age. No getting out of it, unless things have changed in the last couple years.

[Gerry]

It could be worse, in Italy you have no choice but to spend a couple years in military when you become of age. No getting out of it, unless things have changed in the last couple years.

I am very familiar with this. All men must serve by age 26 in either 2 years the Military or 1.5 in Carbinieri (spelling).

I made so many great friends over there and still have such great memories of being their guest at their home and town when we were off duty.

[Bill Roy]

tld, you are describing the Scout movement as well!

May I point out there is as much vaidity to this propaganda as there is of saying anyone who makes the trains run on time is a fascist. After all it was widely attributed that Mussoleni's only accomplishment was to make the Italian trains run on time!

If you wish to get into a debate about whether it is a good thing or not for a nations youth to become responsible for helping within the community then please say and we will open the doors to the debate fully, however, I should warn you that there is no difference between a nation doing this or a church doing this or a youth club doing this.

Roll out the debate with pleasure because I will definately join in.

N.B. A few little questions you may wish to answer. Is it a bad thing in your opinion for people to volunteer to help others and for this volunteering to be organised so as to be most effective? Is it a bad thing to recognise someones contribution to society and reward it with a benefit for the contributor? Finally is it wrong to enable the people to obtain a higher education by works they do for the community?

I am looking forward to this debate.

[fab]

I should warn you that there is no difference between a nation doing this or a church doing this or a youth club doing this.

Sorry to disagree with you. Governments doing this, is no different then them running anything else the private sector should be. Even private schooling works far better then public. Welfare as well should be transferred to the private sector.

[Bill Roy]

Fab, please cite examples, especially with regard to welfare.

[fab]

Fab, please cite examples, especially with regard to welfare.

Regarding welfare, to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't exist on a wide scale, so the idea is mine. I assume there are those who have considered similar ideas though.

Here's a sample of my idea. Churches, synagogues, mosques, other religious and non-religious non-profit organizations, create funds for needy people, families, based upon criteria set up by the government. Those organizations would have to raise a certain percentage of the funding, and would receive government funding as well, if they abide by the government's criteria. The government would publicize organizations, and they would have to maintain strict regulations of open books, where donations came from, how much money, and to whom it was given to.

I need to go, but shortly, I would run a pilot program, in a few cities, to evaluate it's success, and continue from there.

[Gerry]

Ahem...the government is NOT DOING THIS!

Again, does anyone think Obama endorses young black children to do this?

Last I looked, it was called "Black Pride".

What about the viral vid of the Atlanta School kids all dressed up in the same tshirt and dancing and singing to a song they made up to get people out to vote?

I think some of you peeps must have been horrible test takers in school and stuck on the same question for hours as you wanted to read too much into every thing.

If I recall, one Dubya called it Volunteerism shortly after 9-11 to energize a nation into helping one another.

Again, this is from the website Change.gov:

Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free.

Looks like a win-win situation for all.

[Bill Roy]

So fab, how would these organizations foresee the loss of nearly 1.2 million jobs this year alone? Oh yes and already you are involving the government in your scheme, then factoring it out to a myriad of independant bodies, are all these bodies going to have to apply the same rules? Who would govern and man this massive extra layer of management? What percentages would these independant bodies have to raise themselves? How could a city with a higher proportion of unemployment be expected to raise as much as a city with lower unemployment? Are you saying that these independant bodies be organized on a county/city/State/national basis? If on a very local basis, say county or city, then how would they manage sudden downturns in economic wealth of the area? But of course the fact that this has never been tried on a national basis in modern times may suggest there is a basic reason why?

But of course if you love big government with loads of useless management level organising all these external agencies and bringing fair welfare benefits to all then I guess your proposal is a good one.

Oh and by the way are you saying that these independant bodies should be run by volunteers? Now doesn't that immediately smack of something - now what is the word I am looking for, ah yes, that's it, socialism. State organised, State run philanthropic beauraucratic socialism.

[fab]

So fab, how would these organizations foresee the loss of nearly 1.2 million jobs this year alone? Oh yes and already you are involving the government in your scheme, then factoring it out to a myriad of independant bodies, are all these bodies going to have to apply the same rules? Who would govern and man this massive extra layer of management? What percentages would these independant bodies have to raise themselves? How could a city with a higher proportion of unemployment be expected to raise as much as a city with lower unemployment? Are you saying that these independant bodies be organized on a county/city/State/national basis? If on a very local basis, say county or city, then how would they manage sudden downturns in economic wealth of the area? But of course the fact that this has never been tried on a national basis in modern times may suggest there is a basic reason why?

But of course if you love big government with loads of useless management level organising all these external agencies and bringing fair welfare benefits to all then I guess your proposal is a good one.

Oh and by the way are you saying that these independant bodies should be run by volunteers? Now doesn't that immediately smack of something - now what is the word I am looking for, ah yes, that's it, socialism. State organised, State run philanthropic beauraucratic socialism.

So fab, how would these organizations foresee the loss of nearly 1.2 million jobs this year alone?
1. A major problem with almost all government initiatives is the lack of pilot programs, trial and error.
2. The economy will grow best by using the free market.
3. Do you think any government body could do better?
Oh yes and already you are involving the government in your scheme, then factoring it out to a myriad of independent bodies, are all these bodies going to have to apply the same rules?
Sorry I'm not a die hard conservative, yes I am getting the government involved, as little as possible.
a) taking advantage of the good will organizations, saving public money, and better serving the public.
b) Yes certainly there needs to be a fixed set of rules followed by all. This allows for competition, fairness and equality.

Who would govern and man this massive extra layer of management?
This would cut back the government employees greatly. Instead of all the welfare workers, they would go to the private sector, and the government would serve only as a supervisory agency. Like they do with private schools, hospitals, etc.

What percentages would these independant bodies have to raise themselves?
This sort of a program needs some extensive research, with trial and error as well, but it should be at least 50%.

How could a city with a higher proportion of unemployment be expected to raise as much as a city with lower unemployment?
Believe it or not, there are a lot of motivated individuals running good will organizations. If Obama can raise 150 million dollars in a month, who says they can't. The idea is that the organizations are motivated, government officials aren't.

Are you saying that these independent bodies be organized on a county/city/State/national basis?
I prefer the more local the better, but the idea is using this in exchange for what already exists. Federal money for federal money, etc.

If on a very local basis, say county or city, then how would they manage sudden downturns in economic wealth of the area?

Much better then the government. Again government officials have no motivation, individuals do. As Joseph P Kennedy said, When the going gets tough, the tough get going."

But of course the fact that this has never been tried on a national basis in modern times may suggest there is a basic reason why?

Greed!

But of course if you love big government with loads of useless management level organizing all these external agencies and bringing fair welfare benefits to all then I guess your proposal is a good one.

Nice shot! This slims down government greatly, eliminating massive waste. Serves the people far better. Better service more humane, more money, and serving far more.

The welfare system is failing. Tremendous shame it doesn't really bother anyone, nor motivates anyone to use creative thinking. I live this process on a daily hourly basis. The Democrats believe in getting jobs for their buddies, i.e., helping the unfortunate, and the Republicans are against waste, and I'm different.

Here are some facts:

1. I've been on tens of different board meetings determining whether children should be put in funded dormitories or foster families, or left at home.
2. I've been on tens of boards determining the status of special needs students.
3. I've served a foster parent for over ten years for numerous children.
4. I've volunteered with needy families, broken homes, single mothers etc.,

Reality. Teachers, social workers, government officials generally could care less. They don't solve problems, and sometimes they actually create problems, as well as sucking taxpayers money.

Less then 15 minutes ago I met a father who's year old son was a foster child of ours. His wife attempted suicide, and she's back home now. He came back from work, wife sleeping as usual, baby screaming and completely soiled, but you know what the social workers determined that she was more than capable to raise her child.

If you've never done it before, try getting involved and see what good these agencies are doing!

Oh and by the way are you saying that these independant bodies should be run by volunteers? Now doesn't that immediately smack of something - now what is the word I am looking for, ah yes, that's it, socialism. State organised, State run philanthropic beauraucratic socialism.

Socialism isn't a dirty word for me. Try reading my proposal more fully. You said you haven't come across it before, so maybe there's a lot more good than you could imagine!

[Gerry]

Amazing, debate about volunteerism.

[Bill Roy]

Fab, so let us run a theoretical pilot project in say Minneapolis, a city totally chosen at random, change to any city your heart desires.

At the moment the good citizens and businesses of Minneapolis raise $10 million annually for causes directly related to the well being of the local community (all figures are ficticious just being used for argument). Let us assume that the Government supplies welfare of $25 million annually to those who need it. According to your proposal as far as I understand it this money would now be given to a) either an overseeing body for the city of Minneapolis, or b) directly given to the 'chosen' organizations themselves to administer. This would in theory cut out the need for public servants to interact with the people of Minneapolis and therefore save money by not paying these peoples salaries and paying for office expenditure. The problem immediately arises that you then need to insert a level of management to oversee the handing out of the money to the chosen organisations, run checks that the money is indeed spent the way it is meant to be spent, and put in a system of checks to make sure that all recieving organizations are carrying out there work properly. This needs to be done for each individual organisation. You have just incurred costs by doing this.

Then we come onto the absolutely fun part that these organisations have to be staffed so as to carry out the work they are scheduled under your system to do, that means that every organisation now has to have extra staff not only to deal with the public but also to deal with the administration needed when dealing with government money. Are all of these people just meant to come out of thin air and volunteer their services free of charge? Of course not because this has to be full time employment by necessity. So suddenly the costs for each organisation is going to rise because they each have to install levels of management otherwise not required when only dealing with voluntary and charitable contributions. So now we would likely be employing more people resulting in greater costs than if done by the government.

You say that the services would go to the private sector, so we are away from voluntary organisations and into profit making organisations who have to pay shareholders dividends. This argument is inane as a way to deliver an equal service, look at medical health care insurance premiums and how they have risen and the value of service has fallen let alone risen comparatively with costs.

Also during your pilot schemes who will pay compensation to those who suffer needlessly because of the inadequaces in the scheme, where untrained people take on the roll of providing a professional service as supplied by the government. And heaven forbid should any of these organisations interpret the rules according to their dogma and to the detriment of a section of society, say the Catholic Church for example refuses to give welfare to those who have had abortions (this is chosen purely as an example and no slight is intended on either those having abortions or the Catholic Church). How would your 'voluntary welfare system' cope with this?

Then of course there is the matter of the unexpected occuring. Say a major employer closes, how would the local organisations cope with a suden influx of 5,000 or 10,000 people requiring welfare? And to top it off the voluntary and charitable contributions would diminish because these people would no longer be able to make such voluntary and charitable contributions. National government on the other hand is able to draw on the national purse immediately, so those requiring welfare will get it when needed.

I can honestly say I know of no one personally who likes paying taxes, but the vast majority of people understand why taxes have to be paid, even though at times they may disagree with what those taxes are spent on. By suggesting that voluntary organisations take over the role of running welfare is in my opinion not only a step backwards to the Dickensian era but is also fiscally nieve as a way to attempt to save money, indeed it would end up costing more, it would definately be open to wide spread abuse of the welfare system and would not be able to implement a fair and unbiased welfare system.

ANd by the way I congratulate you on your public service and volunteering, now you would be one of the hundreds of thousands needed fulltime throughout the US to implement your plan. If you can find all these people who are willing to do this full time and under strict rules then I would again revisit your idea. In the meantime please realise that what may work on the small scale is usually very difficult to match on the humungous national scale.

As an aside, I would also like to here pay tribute to all those who do give up their time and money to help local charities, this is a tradition of philanthropy. Whether it be making a small contribution or acting as a volunteer these people carry out a duty that is often overlooked but is so desperately needed when the holes in a government program appear and people suffer needlessly because they cannot easily be pigeon-holed into a category.

[gawnd]

these posts have too many words.

can we please summarize the arguments in sound bites? after the last 2 years, that is all i can understand.

[Gerry]

these posts have too many words.

can we please summarize the arguments in sound bites? after the last 2 years, that is all i can understand.

Some members are hearing American youths in boots marching in unison to the Nazi goosestep.

--------------------------

This is one frightening sight!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1aVXX_cKSM

Kids of all color signing and singing! Looks like an illegal alien leading our children astray.

And their parents clapping? Or are they aliens? Did they kidnap these children and force them to perform in front of a camera?

This has got to be legit - I pulled it off of You Tube and it's title is freaking me out!

Paranoia or doom?

[Big P]

Regarding welfare, to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't exist on a wide scale, so the idea is mine. I assume there are those who have considered similar ideas though.

Here's a sample of my idea. Churches, synagogues, mosques, other religious and non-religious non-profit organizations, create funds for needy people, families, based upon criteria set up by the government. Those organizations would have to raise a certain percentage of the funding, and would receive government funding as well, if they abide by the government's criteria. The government would publicize organizations, and they would have to maintain strict regulations of open books, where donations came from, how much money, and to whom it was given to.

I need to go, but shortly, I would run a pilot program, in a few cities, to evaluate it's success, and continue from there.

Government & Religion do not mix.

[ksinclair]

Lets give our new president our full support, and not give in to fear. I think everyone can do more in terms of volunteerism, in terms of being supportive, and having some optimism for the future.