Why nearly all Americans should be FIGHTING the 'Bailouts'

**JuniperPark** · 03-02-2009, 05:23 PM

Good site, well done, everything explained in simple (and very accurate) terms:

http://AngryRenter.com

PS - I have absolutely no connection to the site.

**anatoly** · 03-02-2009, 06:14 PM

typical right wing propoganda

**JuniperPark** · 03-02-2009, 06:23 PM

Nope, all of the information on the site is factual.

Obviously you need to resort to name-calling since the facts aren't on your side.

**HarveyJ** · 03-02-2009, 10:55 PM

I question how he could have gotten 68,000 unique signatures to his petition, when the site has such an appalling Alexa and Quantcast score. 68k would generally entail 2-3x as many people actually visiting the site, because most people are too lazy to even fill out an online form.
And at just shy of 200k UV, he should have a score well below Alexa 1,000,000 and zero info on Quantcast, when the domain's been registered for a year now.

Anyway, factual or not, FreedomWorks is a partisan group, and highly at that.
But all the facts are on Michael Moore's side as well, and I assume you'd have no issue with calling him a left wing bleeding heart liberal that wants to steal your money via taxation, or some such, right?

Fact of the matter is the US is screwed because free market do need someone watching over them and saying "Wait a second, something's not right here", because the market does not correct itself without someone pointing out there's something wrong in the first place.
A business or two may go down, but the underpinning model stays the same, and the people that caused the businesses to go down simply move on to the next thing. Hey, they were a CEO ofa major company before it went bust? They must have been doing something right to be a CEO, so let's inherently trust them more than we trust people that at least pay us some lip service. [/sarcasm]

**JuniperPark** · 03-02-2009, 11:09 PM

First of all, you seem to feel Alexa and Quantcast are extremely accurate -- I think anyone who has been in the business more than a few years can tell you they are nonsense estimations, nearly worthless. Their data on on my own sites isn't even close to accurate, so I don't expect them to be accurate about anyone else.

Second, if you think that getting a "cash advance" on a credit card when you're already over-extended on credit is all that's needed to make you "wealthy" again, then this site is probably not for you.

You didn't address any of the issues of the site, such as the fact that renters and people who fully own their real estate are being forced to pay for a bailout of "flippers".

**Raider** · 03-02-2009, 11:50 PM

No matter how you look at it, ALL bailouts are BAD, Especially this one.

**HarveyJ** · 03-04-2009, 08:22 PM

Juniper: They're not 100% accurate. They're probably not even 75%. But to discount them as being totally inaccurate? That's like saying biomedical science is wrong because macroevolution isn't proven.
Fact of the matter is that there's ZERO information on Quantcast, which actually is extremely rare for a US site that receives traffic. They've either manually opted out, which is questionable if they have, or they're simply not getting the traffic required to LEGITIMATELY get that number of signatures.

And no, I didn't address the issue, because I have no problem with what the site is saying. I have a problem with them making out like it's got tens of thousands of supporters when the data trail doesn't back them up on it.
It's misrepresentation at best, and fraud at worst.

**Compassion** · 03-04-2009, 08:35 PM

More imaginary paper debt was just spent in the last 6 months than was needed to buy up every single thing that existed in the US in 1975

**denny007** · 03-04-2009, 09:49 PM

All those bailouts are BAD. Including banks and carmakers. They should jsut let market take its course. It would be painful but it would clean the system. Like a diarrhoea. These hundreds of billions (and total will be probably in trillions) could have been used for give food and shelter for ten of millions of people who would suffer most. Why bailout fricking CITIBANK ? Is even not owned by Americans...

**Vision** · 03-04-2009, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by HarveyJ

But all the facts are on Michael Moore's side as well, and I assume you'd have no issue with calling him a left wing bleeding heart liberal that wants to steal your money via taxation, or some such, right?
[

Michael Moore has been opposed to the bailouts since Day 1...

The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.

And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees! We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/me...ate=2008-09-29

**Raider** · 03-04-2009, 11:10 PM

Do you want to know how much 800 Billion Dollars is?

WATCH THIS!.

Not to mention the 410 BILLION Congress just passed with OVER 8 THOUSAND earmarks.

I remember when Bush announced the first 700 Billion dollar bailout, It was HUGE and was met with a lot of opposition, mostly from within our own party....... Americans thought it would be the only bailout, a one shot deal, Not a chance

Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reed and Obama would see to that.. I still have a mental picture of the gleam in their eyes when the first bailout was announced, why? It marked the beginning of their socialist agenda for this country.

And don't think for a moment these bailouts will stop, As the economy worsens, (and it will

) these big corporations and institutions were bailing out will continue to need more money.

**jasdon11** · 03-05-2009, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by Raider

Do you want to know how much 800 Billion Dollars is?

WATCH THIS!.

Not to mention the 410 BILLION Congress just passed with OVER 8 THOUSAND earmarks.

I remember when Bush announced the first 700 Billion dollar bailout, It was HUGE and was met with a lot of opposition, mostly from within our own party....... Americans thought it would be the only bailout, a one shot deal, Not a chance

Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reed and Obama would see to that.. I still have a mental picture of the gleam in their eyes when the first bailout was announced, why? It marked the beginning of their socialist agenda for this country.

And don't think for a moment these bailouts will stop, As the economy worsens, (and it will

) these big corporations and institutions were bailing out will continue to need more money.

No-one thought the first $700b would be the only bail out - it was made very clear back then that there was no limit imposed...obviously you need to put an Obama spin on it though.

Solcialist agenda? These bail outs are the polar opposite of solcialism; you couldn't get any further from socialism!!!

**Raider** · 03-05-2009, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by jasdon11

No-one thought the first $700b would be the only bail out - it was made very clear back then that there was no limit imposed...obviously you need to put an Obama spin on it though.

So your defending Bush? Wow!, that's a first. When we gave the first 700 Billion, it was to shore up the Banks along with Fannie & Freddie and AIG... Then it extended to the Auto industry, now were bailing out Millions of American homeowners who cant afford their mortgage, OH, and the Auto industry is coming back for more... Yeah, we saw all these coming during the first bailout, Right!

Who will have their hand out next?

Originally Posted by jasdon11

Solcialist agenda? These bail outs are the polar opposite of solcialism; you couldn't get any further from socialism!!!

If you don't think Government owning a piece of the Auto, Banking and Housing industry is a form of Socialism, you better learn what the word means.... And you better learn how to spell it too. LMAO.

**jasdon11** · 03-05-2009, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Raider

So your defending Bush? Wow!, that's a first. When we gave the first 700 Billion, it was to shore up the Banks along with Fannie & Freddie and AIG... Then it extended to the Auto industry, now were bailing out Millions of American homeowners who cant afford their mortgage, OH, and the Auto industry is coming back for more... Yeah, we saw all these coming during the first bailout, Right!

Who will have their hand out next?

If you don't think Government owning a piece of the Auto, Banking and Housing industry is a form of Socialism, you better learn what the word means.... And you better learn how to spell it too. LMAO.

Defending Bush???? How do you figure that one out? The guy should be shot. He was still the president when the shit hit the fan and the first bail out was announced. It was then that no limit was imposed.

As for the socialism thing - it's not so much buying into the banks and auto makers, as lining a select groups pockets....that's why it's not socialism. Socialism is robbing from the rich and giving to the poor; that's not what we're seeing here.

And don't pull me up for a typo - if you see me making the same childish gramatical errors day in, day out, feel free to enlighten me; I'm a keen learner.

**PRED** · 03-05-2009, 07:00 AM

**Gerry** · 03-05-2009, 09:45 AM

Now now, can we please have a conversation about the sad state we are in the the running of this country into the ground, the greasing of palms, the presidential seal of approval on the stimulus bill, the falsified information on Iraq, mothers like Sheehan who protest the war, the appointment and fall of Roberto Gonzalez, the release of name of a covert CIA operative which is treason, the 5000 dead from the Iraq/Afghan conflict, the pardoning of self and the entire administration, the approval to torture, the descruction of more than 100 videos made of that torturing, the signing of the bill making it nearly impossible to file personal bankruptcy leading up to the housing crisis and bubble, the more than 360,000 war vets who have suffered traumatic brain injuries, the total disregard for environment for the past with years, the rigging of the election in 2000, the lack of leadership in the Israeli/Palestinian crisis, the wide spread disdain for the US on a global scale, the loss of relationships and alliance with some of the most needed nations and their citizens, the parading of Colin Powell before the UN and using him as the fall guy to sell the iraqi invasion, the insistence of WMD's when none existed and none found, the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner, the FEMA response to Catrina, the appointment of the most unqualified people (donors) to run this agency, the waiting for 5 days to send FEMA in to NO, the housing of Katrina Victims in Toxic Dumps called trailers EVEN TO THIS DAY!, the permitting of no contracts bids to rebuild iraq, abandoning the Kyoto accord...

Can we please have a conversation of any of these without mentioning Bush?

**H2FC** · 03-05-2009, 10:06 AM

That's just a partial list of The Goofball's screw-ups that hit the front page.....and has damn near destroyed our country.

**Gerry** · 03-05-2009, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by H2FC

That's just a partial list of The Goofball's screw-ups that hit the front page.....and has damn near destroyed our country.

Our county is broken with fissures on all sides.

That will be the legacy.

And we have to spend the next several years, perhaps the next decade either fixing or renewing it.

Some broken parts are perhaps better to just toss out and fabricate a replacement.

I love the talk about look what obama is doing while ignoring look what George did.

For each action there is an equal and opposite reaction

This is the Newton's basic law of motion.

We can not risk his law of inertia - do nothing.

Without a doubt and those who disagree are brain dead to think that these same problems would not exist if McCain were in office.

I have no doubt that John would have done the same thing and done it just as quickly.

It would have been the same contents with a different packaging.

Money would still allocated and programs would have to be cut.

Folks are going to have to learn to see the middle ground as well as members of congress.

It is party politics and partisanship that is killing and crippling this country.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

**H2FC** · 03-05-2009, 04:36 PM

I believe John McCain would be spending just as much on the bail outs as Obama but the main difference would be most of the money would be going to the rich and powerful who got us into this mess in the first place.

I don't think McCain would be acting as fast as Obama has and I'm sure his efforts would be to support the upper crust and continue the losing trickle down theory. He would do nothing to further the development of alternative energies and get us off foreign oil. He would do nothing for health and education and he would continue the war in Iraq until hell freezes over.....this country would be in a severe depression before his first term is over. I think God he wasn't elected.

**Raider** · 03-05-2009, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by H2FC

I believe John McCain would be spending just as much on the bail outs as Obama but the main difference would be most of the money would be going to the rich and powerful who got us into this mess in the first place.

I don't think McCain would be acting as fast as Obama has and I'm sure his efforts would be to support the upper crust and continue the losing trickle down theory. He would do nothing to further the development of alternative energies and get us off foreign oil. He would do nothing for health and education and he would continue the war in Iraq until hell freezes over.....this country would be in a severe depression before his first term is over. I think God he wasn't elected.

I think it's time you stop using your nuts as crystal balls.