Bank to bank transfer of funds, SWIFT codes etc

[Acro]

In your experience with bank to bank transfers, particularly in Europe, of funds using SWIFT codes etc - what is the average and max times that the transaction is completed? How many days?

This is a preliminary research to establish documentation for a potential lawsuit, so please post if you have engaged in such transactions in the past.

You can also contact me directly.

Thank you.

[Bender]

around 2-5 working days in my experience, from an european bank to another

[katherine]

Is this a bank-to-bank transfer within Europe ? With the use of IBAN & BIC codes transactions are usually completed in around 3 working days. If the transfer is between Europe and US it can take longer unless it's a European branch of a US bank (with Citibank international transfers would be instant).

[Acro]

Yeah it's a bank to bank transfer between the UK and Germany. I am not aware of the particular banks involved, simply because the recipient account is sedo.

Payment was made allegedly last Friday but no funds have been received by sedo yet. So that's 5 business days plus.

I am dealing with a buyer that has dragged the process for 60 days.

[katherine]

IMO it's still early to tell whether the transfer will make it through (crossing fingers)
Obviously the fact that the buyer has been so slow is by no means encouraging :-D

[Acro]

Trust me - I've been crossing fingers for 2 months now. It's time to cross swords.

[carlton]

Earlier this year I had a US to Germany bank-to-bank transfer completed in 3 business days. It seems reasonable to expect that time frame or perhaps shorter for countries within Europe, imo.

[Acro]

I'm sure. I had a Germany to US transaction complete in 4 days via Escrow.com

[Domagon]

An aspect to keep in mind is that sedo itself isn't know for speed when it comes to financial matters.

I've personally never had any electronic transfer, in particular bank wires, take more than a few days tops anywhere.

With that said, sedo may not be at fault at all if the buyer has simply never sent payment...

In my view, probably the best thing to do, at this point, is write that buyer off and shop the domain around to others - suing buyers, unless money has already been exchanged (and even that's debatable), is generally a waste of time and money - one can't get blood from a stone ... and even assuming if the buyer does has some money / assets, there could be jurisdictional issues if you and buyer are in different countries and/or different states/provinces, etc - legal action could get expensive ... and again, even if you get a winning judgement, the odds of collecting are poor.

Ron

[Acro]

Thanks Ron for your insight. The amount is considerable and I've already turned down a considerable offer simply because this buyer was tagged as "serious" by sedo. So far everything points to the buyer being a fabricator of documents; claiming that Paypal failed or that payment was sent, never producing any proof. Currently, he has provided sedo with a scanned JPG of a transaction that supposedly took place 8 days ago. If indeed he's lying, that'd be his final mistake as a forged document will be his tombstone in court.

[Domagon]

Everyone has their definition of "considerable" amount, but if PayPal is in play, then the amount is likely under 5-figures...

I can certainly understand if you don't want to get more specific about the money involved, but my take of the situation is that the buyer either got second thoughts / is over-extended (it happens even to the best of buyers) ... OR ... the buyer is out to scam you...

On an aside, PayPal in all forms is revocable - what happens if PayPal comes back on sedo ... it wouldn't surprise me if sedo leaves the seller left hanging ... not saying I'd blame them, but then that's not a true escrow either ... rambling on ... I just can't see how Sedo could ever accept PayPal for escrow payment for more than a say a few thousand, since all PayPal related transactions, including echeck, etc, are revocable to varying extents.

Since Sedo has been no help - and it appears you know who the buyer is ... drop Sedo and use Moniker or heck, even escrow.com - be sure the funding is via non-revocable bank wire only (bank to bank transfers, like ACH here in the states, are often revocable - one must be sure funding is actually via wire) ... Escrow.com and I'd imagine Moniker will only accept non-revocable funds for large escrows, but one should always be sure before initiating transfer ...

Otherwise, you may find yourself with no money and no domain.

In short, it's sometimes better to let sales go then lose it all - if there are other decent offers, wait awhile, work the sale a bit, and you'll likely get the same amount or even more from a legit, more responsive buyer.

Ron

[Nova]

It's possible the buyer might be ok on this part of it after all. I know of a situation where someone was buying a premium domain through a well known brokerage company with an account to which he needed to wire the purchase funds from the US to Germany. The SWIFT code given to him for the wire transfer was wrong, but he only found that out after digging into it on his own. After quite a bit of communication including email, snail mail to Germany and certified mail to the seller, he and the seller decided to ditch the problem situation and go straight to Escrow.com where everything was completed well. Had he simply wired the money using the wrong code provided, perhaps the deal would have been lost.

[Acro]

As I said, the amount is considerable and it's not by my definition. It is 5 figures.
I cannot reveal details at this point. All I want is statistical information regarding bank to bank transfers within Europe.

[Domagon]

I'm not up on bank transfers in Europe, but I've never read of any taking more than a few days tops.

Since stats are what you seek, a good place to start is with the banks involved. sedo should give you that info, but don't be surprised if they don't - transparancy isn't something sedo has been known for in regards to financial matters - perhaps things have changed / I'm mistaken...

Anyways, if you can determine the banks involved, simply contact them and ask about transfer times (best case, average case, and worse case scenerios); situations that can delay transfers, etc.

From that you'll likely have more than enough "stats" to work with as opposed to zillions of opinions of folks here that will mean little to nothing in a lawsuit anyways.

www-

That's certainly possible, but in this situation the buyer has been changing the payment method, claiming multiple times payment had been sent when it hadn't, and has generally been non-responsive over two months ... added together it paints a picture of a very shady buyer best avoided.

I certainly understand Acroplex being determined to make the deal work ... and who knows it may all work out in the end ... but speaking of "stats" ... the odds are slim to none in my view; seems to me that pursuing another buyer would be a more productive route than filing lawsuits, etc.

Ron

[dvestors]

It might depend on the bank the guy has..some European banks (mainly the smaller ones) are pains in the a$$. A colleague of mine in Munich once sent a direct wire to the UK and it took about 10 business days (small German bank to the Bank of Scotland).

But then the company I work for has a branch in the UK. They do several direct wires from a UK account to all over Europe: Germany, Finland, Sweden, Czech Republic,etc. 24-48 hours is the norm on business days. Has yet to take over 48 hours. I know this is factual b/c I am informed of the initiation and completion of the wires each time they do it.

So it might actually be a bank issue.

Ask him to send you a copy of the wire receipt he sent to sedo.

[Acro]

Thank you for the replies. My patience runs out this coming Friday.

[Steen]

Addressing the original question:

I've had a UK to US wire complete in hours. This was a good transaction.
I've had a US to Romania wire take around two weeks. This turned out to be a very rotten transaction.

[Acro]

As they say: "quick news is good news".

Still waiting for sedo to tackle the phantom transfer.

[Domagon]

I realize you're determined to make the deal work despite the problems...

However, why not hedge your risk by listing the domain for sale here too (ie. in the exclusive's section and/or via PMs) ... you may likely find a motivated buyer in the meantime who is ready to deal today.

Don't worry about sedo ... they won't do anything - legally, they're limited in what they can do anyways ... and in this particular situation, sedo may be ok with you taking the sale elsewhere, since it will save them the continual hassle of dealing with the current non-responsive, non-paying buyer.

Ron

[Acro]

Thanks Ron for the suggestions.

At this point in time, I am not willing to let go of this easily. There have been some serious omissions in the process and I am determined to change the course of things.