Dnforum Copyrightable?

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 02:22 PM

If I or anyone else wanted to copy the format of the VBulletin forum built here at dnf.com, does that violate copyright?

I know the Vbulletin license is a paid for license. And dnf.com and dnforum.com is probably trademarkable.

But if someone wanted to build an IDENTICAL forum with vbulletin, mimicking the Forum categories and Subcategory forums, is that unlawful

Please no moral hypothesizing as I am asking for legal advice and thats all Im interested in. Just for the record, I am not planning on building or copying a domain forum

I am just curious whether a forum design is allowed to be copy-righted

Anybody know of any court decisions on this issue?

**Adam Dicker** · 03-08-2008, 02:25 PM

Strange question indeed.

But a copied forum won't bring in the members and posts which is the value of the forum.

-=DCG=-

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 02:27 PM

yes, I agree as a business matter

I am just curious as a legal matter whether you would have legal protection were you to copyright the forum in order to prevent an identical forum from springing up in the future with similar design structure

**Banned: theinvestor** · 03-08-2008, 02:30 PM

I only joined because of Adam. Creating forums which are similar to others will not generate members.

I think it's legal to use the same structure of other forums, that won't help you much though.

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 02:34 PM

I agree that the site could be copied, and it probably wouldnt be a success.

But as a legal matter, I am not certain you are correct. I think a case can be made that were Adam to submit the site for copyright - were another site spring up with identical design structure - he would have a case against this competing site

Thats just my legal opinion

I would like to hear others LEGAL opinion

**dominator** · 03-08-2008, 02:36 PM

Nobody needs exactly looking forum without members and postings.

We are here, because we like it here, why would we go to your forum?

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 02:40 PM

Oh boy

It is not MY forum that would be competing with Adam's, as it i have stressed several times - it is a hypothetical question for the purposes of determining the answer to a LEGAL question

Please no more business analysis or ethical moral posturing - i am asking a LEGAL question in the LEGAL forum

Thanks

**Banned: theinvestor** · 03-08-2008, 02:43 PM

It's a strange question to ask...but again from what i know.. If you are just using the structure i am pretty sure that is LEGAL. I have seen many forums with very similar structures. If that is the case, it is legal.

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 02:46 PM

Thank you for your legal opinion - not sure if your "analysis" is correct but I do appreciate you being responsive to the question

**dominator** · 03-08-2008, 02:59 PM

I guess this legal forum is intended for domain issues and not for mortgages, cooking, or this kind of questions.

We know that it's a hypothetical question, but there many hypothetical questions that don't make sense, and we usually prefer responding to those we understand.

Legally there are no exact answers. Each side of a law suite has always its own view, and quite opposite... In case you would copy the exact structure and colors of this forum, you may have problems. Because the whole system was created DNForum, it's their copyright.

But who would care about an empty forum, we would just laugh...

**Jagusa** · 03-08-2008, 03:03 PM

I am not a lawyer.
Depends on the creativity and distinctiveness of the forum design, graphics, and headings.
Overall, burden of proof would likely be pretty high on the complainant.

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by dominator

Legally there are no exact answers. Each side of a law suite has always its own view, and quite opposite... In case you would copy the exact structure and colors of this forum, you may have problems. Because the whole system was created DNForum, it's their copyright.

Law Suit, not Law Suite

Of course every side of a law suit has 2 points - nice analysis

If somebody copied colors, that may violate trade dress - good point

Copying the structure entirely might violate copyright - I agree, but it may only be if Adam put in a petition with Congress to copyright the site

Hey Adam , you work at GoDaddy - have you used their C-site product to submit a petition to Congress to copyright your dnf.com forum - - - just curious

**dominator** · 03-08-2008, 03:14 PM

Copyright exists without its registration. In many countries it cannot be registered at all, because it's automatic.

How rights/justice/judgements are enforced is another question...

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by dominator

Copyright exists without its registration. In many countries it cannot be registered at all, because it's automatic.

I am not an IP attorney so you could be right - for all I know it is possible that you have common law rights to protect against copying

That said, I am pretty sure the Founding Fathers - when they wrote the US Constitution - empowered Congress with to allow for registration of patents and copyrights

I know GoDaddy specifically offers this service via C-Site to copyright a website

I think a forum structure could be legitamately copy-righted - that is my opinion for what it is worth

**dominator** · 03-08-2008, 03:38 PM

This is all CORRECT (what you wrote), but it is more meant for patents and trademarks than for copyright. Of course many companies offer also copyright registerations (because they want to earn money), but it is not necessary. Usually a book that was published does not need it. If you write a book and print only 3 copies, it may be a good idea to register it (if the book is good), because otherwise it would be difficult to prove when you wrote it.

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by dominator

This is all CORRECT (what you wrote), but it is more meant for patents and trademarks than for copyright. Of course many companies offer also copyright registerations (because they want to earn money), but it is not necessary. Usually a book that was published does not need it. If you write a book and print only 3 copies, it may be a good idea to register it (if the book is good), because otherwise it would be difficult to prove when you wrote it.

I had thought the Lanham Act of 1933 created trademark protection

Not sure the Constitution as written by the Founding Fathers afforded any trademark protection

**dominator** · 03-08-2008, 03:48 PM

trademark - protect the brand only (a name or a logo)

copyright - text, music, photo

**lordbyroniv** · 03-08-2008, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by dominator

trademark - protect the brand only (a name or a logo)

copyright - text, music, photo

Yes, i know

**DNQuest.com** · 03-10-2008, 11:06 AM

Original published works can be copyrighted IE- Forum code (if it is not vBulletin), Forum unique setup , color scheme (If branding of a TM), articles, etc

[b]Ideas cannot be copyrighted - Another domain forum discussing domains with same headers (unless there is a uniqueness that can be proven)[b]

Title and Logos can be trademarked - Domain Name Forum, DNF, etc

**comfyjeans** · 03-10-2008, 06:21 PM

I am not a Lawyer nor do I claim to be an expert on such matters but I think any copyright prohibiting free speech would not fly with the courts.

I think (and if it's not it should be) that the topics of this free speech should also be considered free speech.

I do believe that business models can be copyrighted or patented, but I also think prior art on a forum that charges a subscription fee wouldn't be so hard to find.

As far as the theme for this forum, I believe it is copyrightable. A good businessman makes subtle changes to such thing in order to get around these things instead of copying them outright. Different gradients in the headers, slightly different color schemes, custom smileys, borders etc..