FBI and recovering stolen domains

[draqon]

OK, so I had a domain of mine stolen a brief while ago and transferred to GoDaddy. Godaddy won't return it, even though I purchased the domain from a court-appointed trustee who is willing to verify the sale, and the thief who stole it used his real name and address, and in an email to me the thief admitted taking it. Apparently, conclusive and definitive prima facie evidence of theft is not sufficient for godaddy to look into the situation.

So I decided to report the theft to the Internet Fraud Complaint Center of the FBI. Does anyone have any experience with dealing with the FBI for intangible property? Do I have a snowballs chance in hell of them recovering it?

[Steen]

Can you not use WIPO to recover the domain?

[draqon]

hi steen,

Unfortunately for me, the answer is not really. The WIPO UDRP is primarily for domains that violate a person or company's trademark rights, its not used for stolen domains. As Dr. B pointed out in another thread (http://www.dnforum.com/f26/using-udrp-recover-stolen-names-thread-67553.html) it has been used for stolen domains on rare occasions, but the outcome is highly dependent on the panelist. I'm not prepared to spend several thousand dollars for a roll of the roullette wheel.

[GT Web]

tell the thief you really want the name back and will send him $2000 via Paypal as soon as you gain control of the domain...

then just conveniently forget to send him the funds...

stealing from a thief

worth a shot!

[Steen]

hi steen,

Unfortunately for me, the answer is not really. The WIPO UDRP is primarily for domains that violate a person or company's trademark rights, its not used for stolen domains. As Dr. B pointed out in another thread (http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?t=67553) it has been used for stolen domains on rare occasions, but the outcome is highly dependent on the panelist. I'm not prepared to spend several thousand dollars for a roll of the roullette wheel.

I was always under the impression WIPO can be used to recover stolen domains. I am really suprised GoDaddy would act like this. Did you CC all emails to ICANN?

[Domagon]

So you had control over the domain and then one day it was just poof, gone ...?

How exactly was the domain stolen?

Ron

[David G]

I was always under the impression WIPO can be used to recover stolen domains. I am really suprised GoDaddy would act like this. Did you CC all emails to ICANN?

I am familiar with an important recent obvious stolen domain fraud case (9MM.com) where GoDaddy (the final registrar who I spoke to about the case), and the plaintiffs attorney (who I spoke to at length about the case, who assumed the case was an open and shut slam dunk win) but it turned out WIPO was no help and the WIPO money was wasted as they said WIPO can not be used for domain theft cases and only disputes. Read the case below:

http://www.arb-forum.com/domains/decisions/309943.htm

[pavsta]

How much i do like GT WEB'S idea of stealing from a thief you should phone up the ICANN and ask for help on this.

[David G]

It is both amazing and interesting why some domainers are so reluctant to contact Internet Fraud Complaint Center of the FBI, even if losing as much as $50,000 on a stolen domain, i.e. indiana.com. Personally, even for 1% of that amount I would try to file a criminal complaint and for 10% would be knocking on the FBI's door at 9:00 Am the next day after I found out it was fraud.

[Acro]

You most definitely need to contact the FBI, as I did 4 years ago when a domain of mine was hijacked. At that time though, the Registrar - Network Solutions - was more than helpful and promptly returned the domain to me within 5 days. I didn't push the FBI report any further as my loss was well under $5k - the threshold for establishing an FBI investigation.

This is another case where you see how crappy of registrar GoDaddy really is.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Get a good attorney involved. Attorney Charles Carreon recovered the SEX.COM domain, the most famous stolen domain! He is a nice guy too. His website is at http://mediaesq.com

[fryman04]

How does a domain get stolen????

[MediaHound]

How does a domain get stolen????

Are you familiar with the transfer process?

[draqon]

hi guys,

i appreciate the advice and comments. some folks have asked me questions, so here i will answer them:

1) GT Web: there is a certain justice in stealing the domain back from the thief, but even if I was going to do this, it is no longer possible. First of all, he has complicated the situation by selling the domain to a new person. Second, the new owner is ignoring all my emails that explain that the domain is stolen, so I suppose he might find it suspicious if I or anyone else suddenly offered to buy the name.

2) Valuenames: to clarify, I purchased this domain from the trustee. it was then stolen mere days before he could transfer the domain into my name.

3) Pavsta, ICANN will be of no help in this circumstance as their policy is that registrars should only return stolen domains when there is a court order or a WIPO UDRP panel that orders the transfer of the domain.

4) Hal, i have a good attorney working on the situation, Howard Neu. He was the one who suggested that I contact the FBI, so I am doing that.

5) Fryman, there are many ways in which domains get stolen. In this case, the thief was an employee of a company that went bankrupt and he decided to use their domain account as his personal piggy bank, even though the company's assets are under the control of the trustee.

[Steen]

hi guys,


5) Fryman, there are many ways in which domains get stolen. In this case, the thief was an employee of a company that went bankrupt and he decided to use their domain account as his personal piggy bank, even though the company's assets are under the control of the trustee.

Always thought that must happen a lot.

[Domagon]

Ok thank you for the additional info ... definitely sounds like a situation where no registrar in their right mind is going to do anything without a court order - the reason I say that is the domain name was ALREADY in control of this other party ... that party chose, and had the right *as far as the first registrar is concerned*, to transfer it out to GoDaddy.

Some registrars will *occasionally* assist in helping customers recover domain(s) transferred out without authorization when the documentation (invoices, logs, etc) is very clear as to who has control of the domain *and* is very clear the transfer out was unauthorized.

While on the topic of unauthorized transfers ... within the next few weeks, the ICANN domain transfer policy will be changing - many folks are taking preparations, namely locking their domains before then - there could be massive amounts of abuse, especially in .COM which doesn't use auth codes like .ORG and numerous other TLDs.

Ron

[chatcher]

2) Valuenames: to clarify, I purchased this domain from the trustee. it was then stolen mere days before he could transfer the domain into my name.

If the theft occurred before the domain name was transferred to you, it sounds to me like it was stolen from the previous owner, not from you. Your recourse should be to obtain a refund from the trustee (after all, he did not deliver what you paid for). It sould be up to the trustee to deal with the theft.

[cogeek]

How does a domain get stolen????

we cannot say my friend, wanna?

[draqon]

If the theft occurred before the domain name was transferred to you, it sounds to me like it was stolen from the previous owner, not from you.

I'm not a lawyer, but I feel that once we had a legal contract to purchase the domain, and I was willing to fulfill my terms of the agreement, it became my domain. This might not stand up to the scrutiny of the law, but it is a reasonable perspective in my opinion.

Your recourse should be to obtain a refund from the trustee (after all, he did not deliver what you paid for). It sould be up to the trustee to deal with the theft

I hadn't lost any money, because I hadn't yet paid the trustee. However, the trustee has authorized me to act on his behalf to reacquire the stolen domain.

[chatcher]

I'm not a lawyer, but I feel that once we had a legal contract to purchase the domain, and I was willing to fulfill my terms of the agreement, it became my domain. This might not stand up to the scrutiny of the law, but it is a reasonable perspective in my opinion.

I hadn't lost any money, because I hadn't yet paid the trustee. However, the trustee has authorized me to act on his behalf to reacquire the stolen domain.

Recovery of stolen domain names is much easier for the registrant (the entity whose name appeared in the whois at the time of the theft). The registrant can go to the registrar of the name (the registrar at the time of the theft - the former registrar, if the name was moved to a new registrar) and demand the return of the domain name. This does not require a court or the FBI, but is only likely to work for the entity who was listed as the registrant at the time of the theft.

I understand you may feel that you legally owned the name even though you weren't listed as the registrant, and the trustee may feel he was in control of the name even though he was not listed as the registrant. But the people who have the best means to fix the problem are not likely to buy either story without a court ordering them to.