iedb.com - need help now!

[jumpbug]

I recently purchased the domain name iedb.com for quite a large sum of money with the intentions of developing it into the internet entertainment database. I had a design created and everything. I now have received an order to turn the name over to Amazon because of the similarity to imdb.com. In case you didn't know, Amazon owns imdb.com

I never thought that I would have a problem with the name on this one, simply because it stands for exactly what it is. It is an internet entertainment database.

They gave me until April 4th to comply. At the least I would like to try and get my money back through Amazon, although in all reality, I'd like to keep the site for myself. Any help or suggestions are much appreciated.

[Domagon]

iedb sure appears/sounds very different than imdb; don't appear to even common typos of each other.

Also what you have is an acroynm - on a related note, imdb is not exactly a world famous mark of any kind ...

In addition, Amazon.com doesn't have sole rights to entertainment databases - anyone is free to create one; implementation is another story, but I assume your site would use a traditional list/search layout so that shouldn't be an issue either.

In a nutshell, definitely fight this if you have the financial resources - on the bright-side, you might actually may break even, make a few bucks, since this certainly appears to be a case of reverse-hijacking.

I'm sure one of the attorneys here will be glad to assist.

Ron

[Dave Zan]

First, never post the domain name in a forum when asking legal questions.

Next, note that your site's content is similar to that of imdb. Amazon believes
what you're doing infringes on their imdb mark.

I'm not saying your site's content infringes on Amazon's. But it's how you are
using the domain that's got you in Amazon's radar.

If you really want to keep that name, better retain an attorney.

[jumpbug]

How much could I expect this to cost me? Should I respond to the attorneys who contacted me and tell them to kiss it? J/K

Any more help anybody? I do not want to let this name go. I would be more than happy to share the "official" looking documents that they sent me with anybody who can look over it for me.

They are officially calling this a trademark infringement

iedb sure appears/sounds very different than imdb; don't appear to even common typos of each other.

Also what you have is an acroynm - on a related note, imdb is not exactly a world famous mark of any kind ...

In addition, Amazon.com doesn't have sole rights to entertainment databases - anyone is free to create one; implementation is another story, but I assume your site would use a traditional list/search layout so that shouldn't be an issue either.

In a nutshell, definitely fight this if you have the financial resources - on the bright-side, you might actually may break even, make a few bucks, since this certainly appears to be a case of reverse-hijacking.

I'm sure one of the attorneys here will be glad to assist.

Ron

I would not be as reluctant to let the site go if I thought they would pay me for the site. Is there any chance of that happening?

[Domagon]

First, while posting the domain isn't always wise, it's not as damaging as some folks may think - if anything, it may help him in that people will share viewpoints they wouldn't otherwise ... publicity alone can often be the difference ... case and point is "yahooka.com" that's a marjuana list site (no I don't own that one) ... Yahoo went after the domain and the owner went public - if he hadn't, he would have most likely lost the domain; Yahoo compremised and to make a long story short, yahooka.com is still up and running many years later; is indexed quite well by Yahoo LOL!

Secondly, acronyms are more difficult to assert trademark rights for - this point alone be a stumbling block for Amazon; conversly, it will be for jumpbug too in any legal challenge.

Thirdly, the sites appear different - Amazon owns a lot of patents on silly things, but I'm not aware of them owning any for entertainment databases / information websites.

With all that said, you're right on about him hiring an attorney pronto - April 4th is coming up fast.

Ron

Opps, you posted as I posted my reply to davezan1.

As a basic trademark infringement matter, in regards to the domain name only, in my layman's opinion, Amazon's assertion appears very weak.

With that said, if you considering selling the domain to Amazon as opposed to developing the site, then perhaps you should just let them have it - or delete it and let Amazon fight for the domain along with all the drop catchers LOL!

Expect to spend several hundred dollars minimum hiring an attorney - add much more if Amazon files a UDRP and/or other legal action ... many thousands.

Ron

[jumpbug]

Would it be ok for me to ask them that if they gave me the money I've spent on the domain name and design, then I'll give them the domain?

[Dave Zan]

Almost forgot to add: there are 3 registered marks for imdb:

Word Mark IMDB
Goods and Services IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: providing an on-line commercial information directory; dissemination of advertising for others via an on-line electronic communications network; providing a searchable on-line advertising guide featuring the goods and services of others; computerized database management services; on-line ordering services featuring movies, motion pictures, documentaries, films, television programs, graphics, animation and multimedia presentations, videos and dvds, and other audiovisual works. FIRST USE: 19980901. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19980901
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 78040289
Filing Date December 21, 2000
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition June 25, 2002
Registration Number 2730592
Registration Date June 24, 2003
Owner (REGISTRANT) IMDb, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Suite 1200, 12th Ave. South Seattle WASHINGTON 981442734
(LAST LISTED OWNER) INTERNET MOVIE DATABASE, INC. CORPORATION NEVADA 923 INCLINE WAY, SUITE C INCLINE VILLAGE NEVADA 89451

Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

===========================

Word Mark IMDB
Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: providing information in the field of entertainment or education via a global computer network, namely information in the field of movies, motion pictures, documentaries, films, television programs, graphics, animation and multimedia presentations, videos and dvds, and other audiovisual works. FIRST USE: 19960130. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19960130
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 78040288
Filing Date December 21, 2000
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition May 28, 2002
Registration Number 2609882
Registration Date August 20, 2002
Owner (REGISTRANT) IMDb, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Suite 1200, 12th Ave. South Seattle WASHINGTON 981442734
(LAST LISTED OWNER) INTERNET MOVIE DATABASE, INC. CORPORATION NEVADA 923 INCLINE WAY, SUITE C INCLINE VILLAGE NEVADA 89451

Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


=============================

Word Mark IMDB
Goods and Services IC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: providing on-line electronic bulletin boards for transmission of messages among computer users concerning general news and information regarding movies, motion pictures, documentaries, films, television programs, graphics, animation and multimedia presentation, videos and dvds, and other audiovisual works. FIRST USE: 19990531. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19990531
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 78040287
Filing Date December 21, 2000
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition June 4, 2002
Registration Number 2612776
Registration Date August 27, 2002
Owner (REGISTRANT) IMDb, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE PO BOX 81226 Seattle WASHINGTON 98108
(LAST LISTED OWNER) INTERNET MOVIE DATABASE, INC. CORPORATION NEVADA 923 INCLINE WAY, SUITE C INCLINE VILLAGE NEVADA 89451

Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

Good luck.

[jumpbug]

Is that bad or does that make a difference?

[Domagon]

I just did some searching on Overture ... iedb ... 0. Google ... iedb stands for a lot of different things ... entertainment wasn't even close to the top ... #1 is International Economic Data Bank.

Ron

[jumpbug]

valuenames - that's good, right?

Also, this question again:
Would it be ok for me to ask them that if they gave me the money I've spent on the domain name and design, then I'll give them the domain?

[Dave Zan]

Sorry, Ron! Just read your new post.

First, while posting the domain isn't always wise, it's not as damaging as some folks may think - if anything, it may help him in that people will share viewpoints they wouldn't otherwise ... publicity alone can often be the difference ... case and point is "yahooka.com" that's a marjuana list site (no I don't own that one) ... Yahoo went after the domain and the owner went public - if he hadn't, he would have most likely lost the domain; Yahoo compremised and to make a long story short, yahooka.com is still up and running many years later; is indexed quite well by Yahoo LOL!

LOL! Yup, I remember reading that.

Not a bad idea. But it's a gamble, of course.

With that said, if you considering selling the domain to Amazon as opposed to developing the site, then perhaps you should just let them have it - or delete it and let Amazon fight for the domain along with all the drop catchers LOL!

Actually, Ron, jberryhill mentioned in another thread that it won't necessarily
stop the attorney from suing both the last registrant and the new one. If that
attorney isn't...uhurm..."technically inclined", s/he may not know how the
domain's creation and expiration dates matter. (or even care...)

jumpbug, you'd better retain an attorney ASAP because only that person can
authoritatively tell you if you've a chance. There are at least 2-3 here.

[Domagon]

davezan1- iedb is so different than imdb that the trademark registrations don't really even matter in regards to a UDRP ... while arbitration panals have been known to do crazy things, Amazon.com has no trademark registrations for iedb, which is very different in appearance/sound than imdb.

jumpbug- are you talking a few hundred bucks tops or more? A hundred bucks, maybe even as high as a few hundred, is realistic - don't expect Amazon.com to pay more than that ...

Amazon already has attorneys on retainer - and they may file the UDRP as part of a group (so it won't cost them $1500, but rather a fraction of that) ... point is that Amazon can play hardball and offer very little since it will cost them relatively little to obtain it anyways unless you are prepared to fight back hard.

One approach may be, if you're willing to spend money to get money, is to have an attorney draft a response on your behalf explaining your situation and the amount you desire - if Amazon.com thinks you're prepared to fight hard, they may be willing to go somewhat higher in what they'll pay you for the domain.

Ron

[jumpbug]

No, I've spent thousands, not hundreds.

I'm in college, but I've still got some cash saved up to handle stuff like this. Can either of you recommend an attorney that you know and trust that can handle this?

[Domagon]

Good point davezan1 about the deletion issue.

Still though, what can Amazon.com sue for if he deletes the domain - they basically sent him a cease and desist, and thus if he deletes the domain, he's doing just what the cease and desist letter wants him to do - stop using the domain.

Ron

Contact John Berryhill - jberryhill

He may be very busy with other clients, but likely he can find some time to at least draft a response letter for you explaining your situation - a few thousand bucks, with attorney help, may be recoverable ... but set a limit right now to how much you're willing to spend on chasing down the money you've already spent; sunk costs are just that, sunk.

Ron

[Dave Zan]

davezan1- iedb is so different than imdb that the trademark registrations don't really even matter in regards to a UDRP ... while arbitration panals have been known to do crazy things, Amazon.com has no trademark registrations for iedb, which is very different in appearance/sound than imdb.

Unfortunately here's why Amazon thinks otherwise:

http://www.imdb.com/help/show_leaf?history

A deal was struck for the IMDb to be purchased and become an amazon.com company, finally giving the people who had worked so hard on the database a real return on all the time they had invested.

Check it out in google. Amazon.com bought IMDB in April 1998.

jumpbug, aside from jberryhill, you can also contact Ari Goldberger at
www.esqwire.com.

[jazzpetals]

If they think they have rights to iedb.com, do they also think they have rights to ifdb.com, igdb.com, ihdb.com, iidb.com etc?

If your website is similar to theirs, simply delete the site and keep the name for a different use.

Unfortunately here's why Amazon thinks otherwise:

http://www.imdb.com/help/show_leaf?history



Check it out in google. Amazon.com bought IMDB in April 1998.

jumpbug, aside from jberryhill, you can also contact Ari Goldberger at
www.esqwire.com.

[SouthernTn]

honestly to me.. it seems like you beat them to it and now they want it.

Entertainment isn't just movies, its a whole heap of things and Amazon knows this. I seriously do not think they should be able to take this name.

[Acro]

The problem arises from your apparent focus on movies & celebrities. Amazon can claim that their mark is being diluted by use of a similar mark for the same purpose.

[HOWARD]

I recently purchased the domain name iedb.com for quite a large sum of money with the intentions of developing it into the internet entertainment database. I had a design created and everything. I now have received an order to turn the name over to Amazon because of the similarity to imdb.com. In case you didn't know, Amazon owns imdb.com

Did you receive an ORDER to turn it over, or a C & D Letter? There is a big difference. Offering to sell it to Amazon will only make you a "cybersquatter" in their eyes and will give them amunition to file a UDRP action. If you are not copying Amazon insofar as content is concerned, you have a good defense at this point if you DON'T offer it to them. You need to decide how much it is worth to you to fight it. You could very well win.

[SouthernTn]

Also, I think you should expand the categories into Music also.. I don't think I seen a music section. Don't focus on the video part and call it Entertainment, it would be wise to include every single thing that people call entertainment.