NAR steal word Realtor?

[Garry Anderson]

Quote:

The National Association of Realtors, which uses the term Realtor as a collective service mark for its agent members, found itself in an Internet domain name-squatting fight over the word.

The U.S. Trademark Trial and Appeal Board issued a 39-page opinion this week that finds the terms Realtor and Realtors do not refer to all real estate agents, but only to those who are members of NAR and one of its local or state associations.

News article

Strange the dictionary says:

Realty: Real estate.

Yet somehow National Association of Realtors has somehow managed to pilfer "Realtor" as a service mark for agents affiliated with them.

Realtor: A service mark used for a real-estate agent affiliated with the National Association of Realtors.

Apple Computers cannot say the term "Computer" belongs to them - even if they used it 100 years!

So - experts - just how exactly can National Association of Realtors take the word "Realtor" legally?

Word Mark REALTOR
Goods and Services IC 036. US 102. G & S: BROKERAGE OF REAL ESTATE, INDUSTRIAL BROKERAGE, FARM BROKERAGE, MORTGAGE BROKERAGE, IN THE APPRAISAL OF REAL ESTATE, MANAGEMENT OF REAL ESTATE, IN THE BUILDING OF STRUCTURES ON REAL ESTATE, IN THE SUBDIVISION OF REAL ESTATE PROPERTIES, AND [ FOR CONSULTATIVE AND ADVISORY SERVICES ] IN COMMUNITY PLANNING FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF RAW LAND AND SLUM CLEARANCE AREAS. FIRST USE: 19160331. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19160331
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 71540013
Filing Date July 17, 1947
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Registration Number 0519789
Registration Date January 10, 1950
Owner (REGISTRANT) NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REAL ESTATE BOARDS ASSOCIATION ILLINOIS 22 WEST MONROE STREET CHICAGO ILLINOIS 60611

[avs162]

So - experts - just how exactly can National Association of Realtors take the word "Realtor" legally?


it was not a word they created it

[GiantDomains]

Originally Posted by avs162

So - experts - just how exactly can National Association of Realtors take the word "Realtor" legally?


it was not a word they created it

Yes they did.

[Garry Anderson]

Vendor - One that sells or vends.

Realtor - One that sells realty.

Duh!

[JuniperPark]

I used to think like the last 2 posters, until I read that the word "realtor" is NOT a made-up word, but one that has been in use in common language for about 150 years. That was the basis of the argument. If that's true, NAR should not by allowed to trademark it.

[Domagon]

FIRST USE: 19160331. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19160331

Curious if the word was used before 1916? If so, about when?...couldn't find a straight answer on that.

Ron

[Garry Anderson]

Thank you Juniper Park.

The word is soooooo obvious derivation of realty, that it was bound to be in common usage.

[avs162]

not saying it wasnt used prior to them coining it

as i recall not in a accepted dictionary prior to them staking claim to it

Source: The Collins English Dictionary © 2000 HarperCollins Publishers:

Realtor ['rıəltə, -ˌtɔː]
noun a U.S. and Canadian word for an estate agent, esp. an accredited one
[ETYMOLOGY: 20th Century: from a trademark]

http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/g/g...-trademark.htm


duh
one defination wonder if i can trademark it could make a mint

A word used by elementary school children, lame middle schoolers, or to anyone who says something really, really stupid, or who is the epitome of airhead.

should have clarified my statement

[Garry Anderson]

Even if "computer" was not in the dictionary - Apple Computers cannot say the term "Computer" belongs to them!

Like Realtor - the word is generic.

Generic: Relating to or descriptive of an entire group or class; general.

[avs162]

not saying i disagree with you just pointing out the leg they stand on however shaky it may be

the success of a brand undermines the tm claim and generic is what they fear and that is why the use of the word by them is critical in keeping the claim to ownership alive

ie xerox actually stopped its branding cold as it was to successful threatened the stake they had

justice and the law dont always coincide and i think that ip law is worse and its a rude awakening to run names agaisnt tess amd be hardpressed to find a name somebody has not tried to call there own

i think that the ip tm is spinning out of control and will get worse before getting better and i have seen wipos that should have made the local police blotter for name theft

when i get a email from some attorney that says you own xxxxx.con and i can take xxxxx.every tld from john doe for you for 5k i fear for everybody but the lawyer

wiposucks.net is still avail for reg

i guage the value of my names by how many people try to steal them from me

[Jer.Net]

i owned e-realtors.com and was threatened by them to let it expire...
which I did :( ..maybe I shouldn't have?

[jberryhill]

The nonsense that is peddled for wisdom here never ceases to amaze. It's like watching the wheel be re-invented, poorly, again and again.

The NAR has litigated over this mark for the better part of a century and won every time.

If you want to know how they can "take the word legally", then why don't you read the decision issued by the three judges involved. Every argument made here, and more, were made by a guy who in separate litigation was seeking to maintain registration of 1900 "realtor" containing domain names.


-------
http://www.realtor.org/RMODaily.nsf/files/Trademark_decision.pdf/$FILE/Trademark_decision.pdf

In his petitions for cancellation, petitioner asserts
that he is “in the business of buying and selling website
addresses containing the word ‘realtor’ and ‘realtors’… ”
and that he “owns approximately 1900 web site names
incorporating the term ‘realtor’ and ‘realtors’ and a
geographic designation.” (Petitioner’s petitions for
cancellation, ¶¶6 & 7) He asserts that respondent’s
registered marks are generic because, in common parlance,
the words “realtor” or “realtors” are synonymous with real
estate agent or real estate agents.
[...]
According to one dictionary entry, the term “Realtor”
was coined in 1916 by Mr. Chadbourn, a writer in the
National Real Estate Journal. Of course, petitioner’s own
source shows that Chadbourn, the first proponent of this
term, saw it functioning as a collective mark – in short, a
proprietary term to distinguish members of the national
real estate association from nonmembers.
[...]
The only evidence in this record as to competing
associations of real estate professionals is the indication
that the National Association of Real Estate Brokers
identifies its members as “Realtists.”
[...]
As noted earlier, the history of the coinage of the term
drawn from the Oxford English Dictionary begins with Mr.
Chadbourn’s advocacy for making this a proprietary term.
In fact, the OED listing placed into the record by
petitioner is consistent with the dictionary entries made a
part of this record by respondent, reflecting the fact that
in the United States, the term “Realtor” is a proprietary
term.
[...]
Even petitioner’s survey expert
testified that he presumed that people in the real estate
industry would be likely to identify the term “Realtor” as
a mark. In fact, the Ross survey confirms that among this
key group, an overwhelming majority perceives the term
“Realtor” as a strong source identifier.
[...]
Hence, in the channels of trade where goods and/or
services are directed at the population subset of real
estate agents and brokers, it is clear that these terms
continue to function as source-identifying indicators.
[...]
Accordingly, based upon all the evidence in this
record, we find that the marks REALTOR and REALTORS
continue to function as collective service marks and have
not become generic terms.
Decision: The petitions to cancel are denied.
--------------------

"The word is soooooo obvious derivation of realty, that it was bound to be in common usage."

Yet another reliable opinion based on actual legal research... Let's have another look at what the Board said...

--------
Petitioner argues in its brief that “the coinage of
[the word] realtor was obvious and probably inevitable.”
Given the etymology of the word as shown in the Oxford
English Dictionary, the word “Realtor” may well have been
one of several logical naming choices for the professional
involved in “realty.” We recognize the aural and visual
similarities as well as the etymological links between the
ordinary, English-language words “realty” and the term
“Realtor.” However, notwithstanding the challenges faced
by respondent and its predecessor in fostering recognition
of the “Realtor marks,” the record suggests that
respondent, its affiliated organizations and its individual
members have generally succeeded in educating editors,
journalists and some portion of the public at large. The
evidence establishes aggressive marketing of these marks
and constant policing of media usage of these terms,
supporting respondent’s position that it has preserved for
the term no small degree of proprietary meaning, even among
general news outlets.
---------

[Domagon]

Originally Posted by NetProwler

i owned e-realtors.com and was threatened by them to let it expire...
which I did :( ..maybe I shouldn't have?

Letting it expire was best...but now you could go one better and register RealtorsSuck.com (available) d instead and put up a message board or whatever on it and help change the world :smartass:

Ron

[namedropper]

Originally Posted by Garry Anderson

Like Realtor - the word is generic.

Generic: Relating to or descriptive of an entire group or class; general.

Realtor is NOT a generic word. It doesn't describe an entire group or class, the term for that is "real estate agent" or "real estate broker" or whatever term they prefer. "Realtor" specifically refers to only those people who qualify, and has been legally held to be a trademark for almost a century.

But then Garry is just looking for an excuse to go off on another uninformed rant and give out dangerously bad advice. This is a board intended for the discussion of legal issues, not conspiracy theories.

Why do you do it Mr. Anderson?

[namedropper]

Originally Posted by NetProwler

i owned e-realtors.com and was threatened by them to let it expire...
which I did :( ..maybe I shouldn't have?

Well, if you like losing a UDRP decision or getting sued and fined $100,000, yeah, maybe you should have held onto it.

[Tippy]

I own a Realtor name so I guess I will be hearing from them in the near future...

Mike

[nicpal]

It may be plain and simply that NAR coined the term realtor. I remember in the 80's that they were called Real Estate Agents, not realtors. NAR is the governing body for real estate agents, and upon joining a brokerage you must pay your "Realtor's Fee's" to the local association of realtor's. There may be a few areas in the country where this may not be applicable. I know that it must be a trademark as every "Realtor" is given a lapel pin with the "R" and "Realtor" on it to show that they are part of the organization.

[Tippy]

Is it safe to assume that if your are a certified " Realtor " that you would be able to use a Domain containing the " Realtor " term/word in it?

You would have a legitimate interest...

Mike

[nicpal]

Originally Posted by Tippy

Is it safe to assume that if your are a certified " Realtor " that you would be able to use a Domain containing the " Realtor " term/word in it?

You would have a legitimate use for it...

Mike

I'm not sure, I'd have to look into it as my wife is a realtor and we do use several domains with "realtor" in them as a redirect to her site, but they have never came after us, and it's been a few years now.

[Garry Anderson]

Oh good - I have a couple of bites

Sorry my argument has been too weak for you John.

I should have made it stronger - I remembered when you convincingly won the debate against me last time.

You know - when you so intelligently argued that consumers should not know when they are on the website of a registered trademark.

You said that it did not matter if all words are confusingly similar to these trademarks.

It was something like, "We lawyers want consumers to be confused".

Oh sorry - that was all just my vivid imagination - you did not win that argument against me.

I remember now - didn't you prefer to keep silent about it for some unknown reason ;-)

Garry> "The word is soooooo obvious derivation of realty, that it was bound to be in common usage."

John> Yet another reliable opinion based on actual legal research... Let's have another look at what the Board said...

--------
We recognize the aural and visual similarities as well as the etymological links between the ordinary, English-language words "realty" and the term "Realtor." However, notwithstanding the challenges faced by respondent and its predecessor in fostering recognition of the "Realtor marks," the record suggests that respondent, its affiliated organizations and its individual members have generally succeeded in educating editors, journalists and some portion of the public at large. The evidence establishes aggressive marketing of these marks and constant policing of media usage of these terms, supporting respondent's position that it has preserved for the term no small degree of proprietary meaning, even among general news outlets.
---------

"Yet another reliable opinion based on actual legal research" - nice one - you would be surprised John ;-)

As you know - "aggressive marketing" from now until doomsday, of the word "computer", does not make the word belong to Apple.

> According to one dictionary entry, the term "Realtor" was coined in 1916 by Mr. Chadbourn, a writer in the National Real Estate Journal.

1916 - pah - humbug!

As "vendor" had been about since 1594, "realtor" would have been the most obvious choice for people selling realty.

The word "realtor" is used in other countries (they do not use word realtyists or realtyers). It seems to me NAR took it for their sole usage in the US.

Quote from OED: "1594 West 2nd Pt. Symbol. §59 If the writ of covenant be brought against all the vendors by all the vendees."

Namedropper said, "But then Garry is just looking for an excuse to go off on another uninformed rant and give out dangerously bad advice."

Dan - so what am I advising you to do then?

You poor mentally disturbed person - can you not tell the difference between advice and opinion?

A tip for you my chum - the following sentence is opinion:

As "vendor" had been about since 1594, "realtor" would have been the most obvious choice for people selling realty.

You should really learn the difference between facts, advice and opinion - my little chummy.

I just cannot understand why you are so aggressive to me ;-)