Need advice about a situation please....

[Domainator]

Originally Posted by andre

I have a friend who owns a domain registration service - enom.com reseller

In the website terms it clearly states that clients are responsible to renew their domains on time and to ensure that they do not expire. Expired domains may be claimed by my friend to add to his investment portfolio.

Recently one of his clients did not renew two of their domains and they both expired. My friend renewed them both and added them to his portfolio. He has been hoping to get both domains and even registered a few variations a few months ago.

He's now parked the domains at sedo but is being contacted by his client who is demanding the main domains back, my friend is refusing to give them back, stating that they are no longer their domains since they allowed them to expire. He offered them to buy them from him but they are now threatening legal action as well as reporting him to ICAAN and to file UDRP

My friend checked with enom and they told him that as long as they domains are not related to a registerered trademark then they are his now since the client did not bother to renew them. Shoudl my friend be worried at all or has he acted within his legal rights? Your thoughts on this are appreciated please.

Quite frankly, I am amazed someone would post such a ridiculous question like this. your friend is a slimeball. If you disagree, than post your "friend's" website here and now for all to see, unless of course you are ashamed to do so....

[andre]

Originally Posted by Domainator

Quite frankly, I am amazed someone would post such a ridiculous question like this. your friend is a slimeball. If you disagree, than post your "friend's" website here and now for all to see, unless of course you are ashamed to do so....

There is more to my friend's story but I am unable to go into specifics on a public forum.

I was hoping to get advice on my friend's legal status in pursuant to his actions. From how I described the history of things and the little information I revealed, yes my friend does look like a slimeball... but if he was such a character, rest assured he wouldn't be my friend in the first place.

[Domainator]

Originally Posted by andre

There is more to my friend's story but I am unable to go into specifics on a public forum.

I was hoping to get advice on my friend's legal status in pursuant to his actions. From how I described the history of things and the little information I revealed, yes my friend does look like a slimeball... but if he was such a character, rest assured he wouldn't be my friend in the first place.

Really??? OK, nothing to hide, you have high standards, and your friend is a good character. Perfect. Now what is his web site called????

[andre]

Originally Posted by Domainator

Really??? OK, nothing to hide, you have high standards, and your friend is a good character. Perfect. Now what is his web site called????

Can you please explain how anouncing my friend's website will have any relevance to your assessment of his legal position / situation?

[Raider]

From my understanding and tell me if I'm correct, Your friend created a retail Enom account for someone, and when expiration time came, that someone did not renew his domain, So your friend went into that account and pushed the domain into his? is this what happened?......I dont think you could do this with a reseller account, only retail.

[andre]

Originally Posted by Raider

From my understanding and tell me if I'm correct, Your friend created a retail Enom account for someone, and when expiration time came, that someone did not renew his domain, So your friend went into that account and pushed the domain into his? is this what happened?......I dont think you could do this with a reseller account, only retail.

No, the domains were in my friend's reseller account and not a retail account.

[Raider]

I'm trying to understand what type of Enom account the client had if any, OR was your friend holding the clients domains in his reseller account?.... Please elaborate.

[andre]

Originally Posted by Raider

I'm trying to understand what type of Enom account the client had if any, OR was your friend holding the clients domains in his reseller account?.... Please elaborate.

My friend was holding the client's domains in his own reseller account - Sorry for the confusion

[Dave Zan]

Andre, the only way to find out the answer is if your friend gets sued. Your
friend might or might not win depending on whatever facts are presented to
the judge and how far it goes.

One hint, though, is your friend's so-called contract, especially if it complies
with any and all applicable laws in his/her jurisdiction. There are cases going
both ways, but I won't be surprised if there turns out to be more upholding
contracts and their terms.

People can argue what's morally wrong, ethically right and what not. But no
force on earth or outside can compel one to believe what another does, and
neither are they compelled to do business with them or so.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by andre

My friend was holding the client's domains in his own reseller account - Sorry for the confusion

Then its VERY likely the renewal notices went to your friend rather than the client, As a reseller, your friend had an obligation to provide the same warnings that Enom provides, if your friend received a renewal notice, it should of been forwarded to the client, but its likely they were withheld from the client so your friend could claim the names...

As a reseller, the right thing would of been to create a retail account for the client and push the domain into that account from the very beginning, this way the client would have control and be able to manage them, but your friend elected to manage them himself and allowed them to expire....If this is what happened, it really stinks on the part of your friend.

[andre]

Originally Posted by Raider

Then its VERY likely the renewal notices went to your friend rather than the client, As a reseller, your friend had an obligation to provide the same warnings that Enom provides, if your friend received a renewal notice, it should of been forwarded to the client, but its likely they were withheld from the client so your friend could claim the names...

As a reseller, the right thing would of been to create a retail account for the client and push the domain into that account from the very beginning, this way the client would have control and be able to manage them, but your friend elected to manage them himself and allowed them to expire....If this is what happened, it really stinks on the part of your friend.

My friend owns the reseller account at enom, but the client account is on an awbs powered website. The client did receive TWO notices - sent automated by the system but they were both ignored. No notices were withheld or otherwise... the client did not even login to his account to try and renew them. They simply neglected their responsibility to renew their domains.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by andre

My friend owns the reseller account at enom, but the client account is on an awbs powered website. The client did receive TWO notices - sent automated by the system but they were both ignored. No notices were withheld or otherwise... the client did not even login to his account to try and renew them. They simply neglected their responsibility to renew their domains.

OK, now I understand...Just curious, do you know if the client acknowledged receiving the notices?.

[andre]

Originally Posted by Raider

OK, now I understand...Just curious, do you know if the client acknowledged receiving the notices?.

I wouldn't know that much. These were automated emails so I doubt very much they were acknowledged or if there was a way to prove receipt by the client.

However, accoridng to enom, ultimately the responsibility the renewal of any domain is on the owner and not the registrar. The registrar 'may' or may not send email reminders, the registrar is not obliged to do so. I read it on enom's terms.

[DNQuest.com]

Wait a sec, was the client listed on the whois? if so, which field was he listed. The only field that receives notices are the admin I believe, if it was your friends account, then wouldn't your friend's name be the admin?

Also, since your friend used his own account to register the name, he is not acting as a registrar, but more as a holding account. Unless there is documentation between your friend and the client stating otherwise, then the client should be under enoms TOS which does hold domains after expiration since the domain was bought under enoms TOS. Basically, the client used your friends account to register a name, so all applicable TOS of the domain should also be afforded to the client.

Personal note - very slimey and I hope I never chance to deal with your friend.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by DNQuest.com

Wait a sec, was the client listed on the whois? if so, which field was he listed. The only field that receives notices are the admin I believe, if it was your friends account, then wouldn't your friend's name be the admin?

Also, since your friend used his own account to register the name, he is not acting as a registrar, but more as a holding account. Unless there is documentation between your friend and the client stating otherwise, then the client should be under enoms TOS which does hold domains after expiration since the domain was bought under enoms TOS. Basically, the client used your friends account to register a name, so all applicable TOS of the domain should also be afforded to the client.

Personal note - very slimey and I hope I never chance to deal with your friend.

This is exactly what I was thinking....The Admin would receive the notice unless the client had an account of his own.

[Dave Zan]

Originally Posted by DNQuest.com

then the client should be under enoms TOS which does hold domains after expiration since the domain was bought under enoms TOS. Basically, the client used your friends account to register a name, so all applicable TOS of the domain should also be afforded to the client.

You mean this?

http://www.enom.com/terms/agreement_reseller.asp

If you die or otherwise become unavailable (the Backend Service Provider is unsuccessful in making reasonable attempts to contact you), and if you have customers and/or Sub-Accounts, the Backend Service Provider may assume direct control over such customers and Sub-Accounts. If, under such circumstances, you have a Primary Service Provider, you agree that the Backend Service provider may elect to allow the Primary Service Provider to assume direct control over such customers and Sub-Accounts.

Take note, though: it says may, not shall or should. Unless I missed a term
or misunderstood something, I don't see anything requiring eNom to give all
or any of those "privileges" to a reseller's end user, much more take control
of them after expiration.

Words can make all the difference...

[Duckinla]

If this is how your friend treats clients, then your friend doesn't deserve to have clients. Hopefully he gets sued, loses, and spends his life broke.

[andre]

Originally Posted by DNQuest.com

Wait a sec, was the client listed on the whois? if so, which field was he listed. The only field that receives notices are the admin I believe, if it was your friends account, then wouldn't your friend's name be the admin?

Also, since your friend used his own account to register the name, he is not acting as a registrar, but more as a holding account. Unless there is documentation between your friend and the client stating otherwise, then the client should be under enoms TOS which does hold domains after expiration since the domain was bought under enoms TOS. Basically, the client used your friends account to register a name, so all applicable TOS of the domain should also be afforded to the client.

Personal note - very slimey and I hope I never chance to deal with your friend.

I checked on this and my friend told me that it was the client's details on the whois at the awbs powered site. The domain renewal notices would have gone from the awbs powered site to the account holder (the client) which is the same email used in the domain admin contact.

There was no way the client wasn't informed about their domain needing renewal. Two notices would have gone to server the purpose of reminding.

[Raider]

The whois email is not the address used to send out reminders, Below are the Enom entries in "My Info" They are always sent to the account address, not whois.

Email Address (WhoIs)
This addres will be displayed in your public WhoIs Information. Please enter only one address. *

Email Address (account)
This address will be used to contact you about your account. Please enter only one address.