Not trademarked, but it's still our name!

[Chuckles2]

If no one else would want the name, but you....the current owner may be reasonable...a mid xxx offer may get it. I will tell you good generic 2-3 word domains like you are after can be valuable parked...and it may take low to mid xxxx if not more. Starting with an xx offer will not get you a response.

Thank you for solid advice. And I agree.

Please note that I said above that I regret suggesting a small offer... But as I explained, I was afraid a larger offer exceeding his own costs might be seen as acknowledgement of his right to register it. Since I believe it was reg'd in bad faith, I am concerned about creating any implication to the contrary via a larger offer.

[Onward]

Never offer a price in your initial coorespondence. try to get them to give a price expectation and work from there.

[Chuckles2]

How do you know that the name is for sale if it's not public information? Your post makes it sound like you're a self confessed typo-squatter looking to move into reverse hijacking. The example domain sounds generic if the Salon is in NewYork and if the domain owner is earning good money from a generic domain then 1 years reg fee for his trouble would be laughable.

Several misunderstandings here. The sale of the BUSINESS is not public info. I've signed an NDA with a business broker and I cannot reveal its name. The domain isn't "offered" at all, but I would want to acquire it if I buy the business.

It is the only business of its type in the city, and likely always will be. My zoo example is actually very fitting to this scenario. Hair salons are everywhere, unlike a zoo or this business type.

Still, and again, I regret that suggestion of 1 year's reg fee. There was a reason though, see above.

[Provider]

I didn't want to write too much in the morning, but it looks like I have no choice

You thread basically opens a discussion about the future of domain name industry.


For every single domainer the fact that the domain marketplace exist is important.
The whole idea of domaining is based on the fact that we register domain name before
somebody else does, or we purchased the domain name before the end user does. Both of
these actions based on the assumption that somewhere there is an end-user who will
pay a greater price for the domain name at some point. Once the end-user purchases this
domain name this is the end of journey for the name, probably forever, because later
on it will become a site and if ever will be sold it will be on the other terms.


On the other hand there are many people and organizations that don't want this
domain marketplace to exist. They don't want to recognize the fact that domain
name is a "property" that can be sold for more money. They think that there is no
need to rush and register their domain, because they have a store with the same name
and it gives them the right to get the name at any time from the current owner.


Domain name industry is trying to educate everyone around through
the conferences, auctions, forums etc. that there is an actual industry of
buying and selling domain names. In many many cases we can see now that the
things started to change. Good example is acquisition of TANDBERG.COM -
(dnjournal.com - 3rd place year to date sales 2007 - 1.5 mln). If Tandberg could
go and buy the domain name, why San Francisco Zoo can't?

I think Chuckles2 you are in love with this domain name you want to buy, but
you shouldn't be sacrificing here all the "domaining" principles just to get it.
You write:"As a domainer I might be a little bit sorta guilty-ish of this myself. I own a few typos...". I think you are fighting against yourself here. For instance
do you know that there is a company that exist and called Green Label USA Inc? You own
YesYesYes.us. This company applied for a trademark for the YesYesYes but decided to abandon it:

Word Mark YESYESYES
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 029. US 046. G & S: Processed Vegetables and Fruits: canned, or frozen, or preserved in glass containers or flexible packaging. FIRST USE: 20040131. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040131
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78383875
Filing Date March 13, 2004
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) Green Label USA Inc CORPORATION DELAWARE 2609 Cabover Drive, #9-10 Hanover MARYLAND 210761662
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date March 28, 2005

Still that company owns this brand YesYesYes:

Processed vegetables and fruits canned, or frozen, or preserved in glass containers or flexible packaging

source:
http://www.findownersearch.com/brand/825848/

What do you prefer for this company to do? Do you prefer them to read an article
on CNN about latest auction results and how hell.com wasn’t sold for 3 million, or
you prefer them to think that they can go and take this domain from you? If
they read the article at least they would understand that domain names bought
and sold, and this is business for some people. In that case instead of taking the name from
you they will try to negotiate a deal with you.

[DNQuest.com]

Apples and oranges, pears and peaches, ying and yang.... The 2 examples are different.

The first thing you need to do (especially in business) is be objective and look at both sides. Nobody has exclusive rights to a domain. You seem to understand somewhat about the domain game (but I also believe you might want to research a little more from what I gather so far), but you are on the other end of the stick (wanting a domain). Now, if you owned the domain, what would you want for it? I doubt the answer is a year's registration for your "troubles". Like it or not, you have to be reasonable. The owner did not register it and left himself open.

It does sound like there may be an argument for a common law TM. In that case, the TM holder needs enforce their mark. If you buy the business, then you do have to factor in those costs. Yes, you may need to go via UDRP, but as mentioned, sending a C&D with a reasonable offer could make this situation go away fast. The name may have enforceable rights, but you (or the current owner) needs to enforce it. No one will do it for you (for free at least)

Now, the TM itself. Myself and others mentioned that there may be rights to the name, but if it is a cityservice.com, the argument could be made that it is descriptive on the behalf of the domain owner. New York Cab could be a name of a cab company, but if the site newyorkcab.com offers cab information in New York, it would be descriptive in usage. You need to factor that into your thinking on how to go about obtaining the domain. As we all know, that is the argument domainers use in defending their "generic" domains.

In conclusion, only you can decide how you want to proceed. You are a domainer and you admitted to having typo's, you are as "guilty" as they are if reference to squatting. If you don't like the comparison, then you are in for a tough road ahead in the domain game. So put personal feelings aside and look at the business aspect of it. Like it or not, but that is what you have to do.

Moral of the story - It sucks to be on the defending side isn't it??

EDIT TO ADD: Many posts since I started this post.

[Chuckles2]

Not a great example, since I bought yesyesyes.us for 99 cents just for the experience of doing so, and I intend to abandon it too. Or I'd push it if someone asks for it. Doesn't make me a dime. Want it? Here, take it.

As for me "being a domainer"... Well, as it says to the left, I'm a noob... There's a reason I'm looking into buying a different business.

I'm appreciating this interaction and advice and I apologize to any who were offended at my expression of a poorly-thought-out notion.

Would it be too repetitive if I say once again that I regret making the 1-years registration remark?

I'd be glad to pay much more than it's worth to him parked, (10 years parking revenue maybe) and FAR more than it's worth to anyone else (which is zero.)

[Provider]

Chuckles, this is just one of the discussions on the forum, you don't have to apologize for anything here. I might be wrong, you might be wrong, we both might be wrong, nobody is offended here

This is environment that consists of 99.9% of arrogant opinionated males. They all
have opinions and some of them are very rude by the way. I see that you
are new on the forum, but be prepared. I advice you to watch a very good TV show called "Entourage" to prepare yourself (was nominated for Oscar). In this show an agent - Ari GoldBerg - uses words FU every single minute
to express his love to his clients, in addition to all other conversations. Nobody will tell you FU here, but many people will talk rude, just don't pay attention. We all love each other here

[Creature]

Not a great example, since I bought yesyesyes.us for 99 cents just for the experience of doing so, and I intend to abandon it too. Or I'd push it if someone asks for it. Doesn't make me a dime. Want it? Here, take it.

As for me "being a domainer"... Well, as it says to the left, I'm a noob... There's a reason I'm looking into buying a different business.

I'm appreciating this interaction and advice and I apologize to any who were offended at my expression of a poorly-thought-out notion.

Would it be too repetitive if I say once again that I regret making the 1-years registration remark?

I'd be glad to pay much more than it's worth to him parked, (10 years parking revenue maybe) and FAR more than it's worth to anyone else (which is zero.)

It would be interesting to know how much the seller wants for the name. I would just make an offer and see what happens. YesYesYes can be totally fine imo, depending on how you use it. However, intending to abandon it is like an admission of guilt That one is fine, but probably not worth too much though. Good luck with buying the name anyway!

[jberryhill]

This sounds like a generic name to me...new york loans, new york florist, new york hair salon, new york auto repair ....all generic.

It depends on a lot of things.

Eat at Boston Market lately?

Ever had Kraft's Philadelphia Cream Cheese?

Clothing by LA Gear?

Kentucky Fried Chicken?

The term "generic" is abused above. [City] [goods] is not generic. It is descriptive. Descriptive terms may acquire distinctiveness through longstanding continuous and substantially exclusive use such that the relevant class of consumers has come to associate the term with a particular source or origin of the goods or services.

[Chuckles2]

Off-topic Factoid: Kentucky Fried Chicken was first opened in Utah. My grandmother worked at the first restaurant. The Colonel (a Kentucky Colonel) used to whack her on the head with his cane. He was a jerk.

[DNQuest.com]

Chuckles (btw- that is what I call my God Father). Most of the time we are just being blunt which could be perceived as rudeness. We actually do enjoy helping people and sometimes, when something is said, we will jump all over it in hopes the person realizes that maybe their thinking may not be accurate. But is is all doone with good intentions. Good Luck.

[Acro]

As DNQ says, when one presents the facts but insists on their point of view without being receptive to suggestions by others or legal advice, what's the point of posting in the first place?

[Chuckles2]

Do I have a point of view? If so, can you tell me what it is?

What I have is a perspective. I want it, I hope to get it, and it seems right to me that I should be able to obtain it at a reasonable price without being gouged as the only potential buyer. I am just seeking the best way to make that happen. It is clearly "squatted" specifically so that this sale might eventually occur. (I'm unable to give the name, but if I could it would be clear.... believe it or don't.)

[Onward]

[City] [goods] is not generic.

Out of curiosity would you say [City] [service] is not generic as well?

What about Boston Hotels ? not generic as well? Interested in learning. Thanks.

[maroulis]

Out of curiosity would you say [City] [service] is not generic as well?

What about Boston Hotels ? not generic as well? Interested in learning. Thanks.

What about Boston Market? That's along the lines of examples John was trying to give you....

[Onward]

What about Boston Market? That's along the lines of examples John was trying to give you....

I received that example. Thanks.

I was asking about Boston Hotels....I may be a lttle thick headed this morning.

[Creature]

Out of curiosity would you say [City] [service] is not generic as well?

What about Boston Hotels ? not generic as well? Interested in learning. Thanks.

I guess it must be 'descriptive' based on JBs post. I think some of us including me genuinely need a JBerryhill lesson defining 'brandable', 'generic', 'descriptive' and any other types of domain names and how they can be used in general.

[Acro]

It's ironic that Boston Market, a restaurant chain here in Florida, has no presence in Boston

[jberryhill]

[good]/[service] are interchangeable her.

I was asking about Boston Hotels...

You are looking for some sort of general formula.

Let try this:

Many women are beautiful.

I know a woman named Jane who is beautiful.

I know a woman named JoAnne who is beautiful.

So, you are asking me whether Janet beautiful.

In order to answer that question, I'm going to have to have a look at Janet.

So... "Boston Hotels"... Are you aware of some particular chain of hotels that calls itself that; which has called itself that for years; and which a substantial number of people recognize as referring to a particular chain of hotels?

What I can say is that "Boston Hotels" is a descriptive term, and it is likely (I haven't looked) that there are probably quite a few folks in the hotel business that use the term as a descriptive reference to hotels in Boston.

Now, yes, people fry chicken in Kentucky. It is indisputable that a chicken, when fried in Kentucky, is in some sense a Kentucky fried chicken. But there is no way in blazes you are going to set up a business selling "Kentucky fried chickens" without a legal problem, because the relevant consuming public has grown to associate that phrase with a particular entity that is the beneficiary of that recognition and goodwill.

So, let me ask you... how about Intercontinental Hotels? That is descriptive of a hotel chain which operates on more than one continent. However, there happens to be ONE chain which is widely known among travelers and in the industry as Intercontinental Hotels.

I am going to the Intercontinental Hotel in my Thrifty Rental Car from the airport after arriving on an American Airlines flight, so pick me up some Maine Lobster from the Giant Supermarket.

Okay, now I highlighted five terms in that sentence. One of them is not a trademark. Which one, and why is it not a trademark?

[DNQuest.com]

Do I have a point of view? If so, can you tell me what it is?

You do, that cybersquatting fiend stole a domain name and you want, how dare he register a domain in bad faith and attempt to profit from it. You demand to have it back for a reg fee because that is the only fair thing. So what typos of TMs do you have????

Anyway, I think everything has been covered as much as it could be without knowing the actual name. Don't give it out, but assess the situation. All I can tell you is that there is enough posted here to give you an educated way of handling the situation.

John, I would have to go with Maine Lobster since it is a descriptive for something you actually want.

BTW- Joanne is only cute with the lights off