Not trademarked, but it's still our name!

**Onward** · 10-08-2007, 08:46 AM

You know....Network solutions/enom bought Namejet.com for a few hundered (I believe on afternic)...if this name is really nothing special...you should be able to do the same...is it listed on sedo or afternic? Another thought...why don't you hire a broker - if you do not have the confidence that you can keep emotions out of direct negotiation.

**jazzpetals** · 10-08-2007, 04:02 PM

(Hey, I understand... As a domainer I might be a little bit sorta guilty-ish of this myself. I own a few typos.)

1. Be honest with yourself. How many domains have you sold by regging names where a legitimate business existed? And how much were you wanting to get for the said domains? Now that the tables are turned, you state that "as an owner of an established business I don't think we should enter a "negotiation" as if he should rightfully own it in the first place.
2. If the name is NewYork generic, i.e., NewYorkContractors.com, NewYorkPainters.com, I think your chances of retaining the domain name via legal means is nil.
3. You say you are purchasing a business. Do you view domaining as a business? Aside from the physica assets of this business that you are purchasing, don't you think that the domain itself is a part of that business, and should be treated as such? If so, be prepared to enter into negotiations with the current owner in order to add this asset to your business. If you are not willing to do this, then you have no right to claim the name as part of your business imo

**Paul_Kuhn** · 10-08-2007, 04:38 PM

Maybe, you did not read this:

Originally Posted by KaneCo

Why does every company think they own the right to the .com just because they are the name, is .com not a international ext? You should only have rights to the .us since it is a us company...

What about this argument?
Isn't it worth anything?

Ahoi!

**Dave Zan** · 10-08-2007, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckles2

I just don't want to be price-gouged.

And is it far off the registrant doesn't want to be price-gouged either since
s/he ultimately decides whether to even sell to begin with?

Originally Posted by Paul_Kuhn

What about this argument?
Isn't it worth anything?

I guess not since no one seems to argue that. Some people believe they've
got some cosmic right to something that doesn't appear to belong to them
to begin with.

The real question is how to demonstrate that right...if they can.

**Chuckles2** · 10-09-2007, 06:12 PM

Wow, there are replies here I wasn't aware of.

First, I was asked if I see domaining as a business. Yes of course, although it ain't paying my bills and I think I'm gonna abandon it as a diligent activity.

I have acquired typos with the goal of getting a little ad revenue from the "dregs" of typo traffic, but not to gouge anyone if they want it, nor to detract from business they would otherwise get. Typos will be visited, and I feel if a business won't register its own typo, someone should. I don't believe I've ever done any domaining activity that diminishes anyone's business. If the typo is blatant, a business that has used the correct spelling should own it as soon as they express interest in having it, wherin the registrant recoups his costs and keeps any revenue he's been earning... sayeth me.

Now, y'all may find this ironic and entertaining: Today I received my first ever C&D letter. What an honor! It included a demand for "damages" of $5000. Their demand for damages was their very first contact with me, and I think it was very rude.

Here's how it went: I didn't have counsel, but within a few email exchanges with their lawyer, they changed their tune from demanding $5K and accusing me of a crime to paying me $100 to settle and transfer. The domain had only 13 visitors in the 4 months since I registered it, so I didn't think it had value to anyone, (not even them.)

Now, my domain was a typo not an exact company name so I see that as a somewhat different. A typo doesn't prevent anyone from getting proper traffic. It is simply picking up the dregs of what has been dropped. Similarly, I wouldn't deny the registrant of the name I want of any revenue he's received in the past, and I do not feel the least bit "damaged" unless he chooses to attempt to price gouges. Likewise I think the demand of $5K from me was B.S.

I feel when a company has interest in an obvious .COM of their established business name, (or an obvious typo) they should have it. If I'm the registrant when they express interest in getting it, then I feel it's justice to surrender it, recouping any of my costs and keeping any revenue I've collected. At that point I feel it's rightfully theirs, but not until they actually WANT it and would have otherwise made use of it.

Obviously, a domain has no value to anyone who had interest in controlling it.

So here's my perspective of today's experience from the other side: As the registrant of the typo, I wish they had just written to me, and even if they just offered $10. I would have asked for more, but if they stuck to the offer I would have taken it, recovering my costs of registration. It also would have cost them a lot less to go that route, because they could have done it without counsel.

Instead, today in an exchange of 6 or 7 emails, we played a game of expensive brinksmanship. (I happen to believe brinksmanship is about 90% of what lawyers do.) Given their rude approach, I didn't "sell" per se... Instead I demanded the money as damages for their harassment, adding that once they paid I would be happy to transfer.

So here's what I intend to do to acquire the domain I want: Once escrow closes on the business, I think I'll call the owner and tell him very respectfully that I feel I should properly control the domain, and offer a few hundred. Unlike my typo, I believe this dude (whose location is only 2 miles from the business) had the goal to sell it to the business when they eventually figured out they needed a website. Whatever the laws may be, not ethical IMHO.

Ultimately, I intend to do what's legal and in my own interest. (Duh.) In this case, if the registrant wants more than $XXX I think I can get from him, justifiably, by filing a complaint. Once it's filed, there may be another game of brinksmanship similar to the one I played today, but I doubt it will all cost $XXXX, even though he knows it's worth more than that to me. The reason I believe this is because knowing its name which I do not feel can reasonably be seen as generic (and sorry I still can't disclose it) I believe the UDRP complaint from my side would be strong, even without counsel and at still lower cost to me than $XXXX.

If a UDRP complaint failed I'd be surprised, but hell... I could just change the company name! After all, their past business came only via telephone, and the phone number isn't changing.

Basically, I only started this thread because I was concerned that if I offered money up front it could kill the possibility of filing an effective UDRP complaint, and I now realize that was an unwarranted concern.

The replies to this post should be interesting.

**VisualDigits** · 10-09-2007, 06:17 PM

Dude, your post gave me chuckles. KARMA is a *****, ain't it.

**Chuckles2** · 10-09-2007, 06:24 PM

Well, one thing is for sure... either

A) I'm conveniently adjusting my ethics to suit my own interests. Could be, but I don't think so.

or

B) There's a real ethical/legal difference between squatting a domain with intent to price gouge in the future vs. "taking the dregs of traffic" from a domain that nobody had an interest in in the first place.

Each party will judge for themselves about the ethics of each situation, and I'm not so sure even the law has made up its mind entirely.

Hope you enjoyed the story. ;-)