People who register TM names and TM typos are stealing from us

[fatter]

I know I will get a lot of grief from this but it is true. people who register TM/typos are hurting every legitimate domainer,
Ad dollars would be much more if advertisers actually got people from parked sites who were searching for there product 100 percent of the time. Heres an example Joesmo types in hbsc.com instead of hsbc.com and goes to a parked page with hsbc link on top for banking. HSBC paid 5 dollars for every visitor that google sends them only joesmo already has an account with hsbc and just wants to check his balance. I am sure advertisers see that there traffic is converting somewhat because of the legitimate parked sites where people are actually looking for a mortage or whatever. But now we see advertisers opting out of parking traffic for this reason. I am sure this happens millions of times each day.

[aZooZa]

Step forward the role of 'brand protector'. If companies like HSBC retained a professional who knows what he/she is doing and knows what a 'zone file' is, then the problem goes away. In simplistic terms.

[Poker]

Originally Posted by fatter

Ad dollars would be much more if advertisers actually got people from parked sites who were searching for there product 100 percent of the time.

More like Ad dollars would be much more if advertisers actually knew what they were doing online. Why blame advertiser ignorance on domainers.

[Focus]

It's a very complex issue and not simplified in one short answer but the existence of typos and tm domains actually increase the advertisers conversion rates and artificially inflate the conversion/performance figures as reported back with embedded tracking code to google or yahoo, therefore actually increasing the advertisers spending and bidding..they have to spend the money online and marketing managers sometimes have a hard time finding places online to spend it all! You are basing your argument and incorrect assumption on the non-factual statement that most people going to the site in question are already members and just logging into check their accounts..but in reality a large % of those visitors to any banking site are responding to print advertising and commercials and going online to apply for an account, loan, credit card, etc. Whether they get there through your parking page or from google or yahoo, etc..the companies are spending money to gain that new customer. You seem overly concerned with their budget and ppc campaigns but please rest assured they already have their ROI figured out along with their ad budgets for the month set with the advertisers and as long as ads keep showing up they are benefitting in a BIG way from that traffic..typo or no typo. If they type it in wrong and hit the microsoft default search browser instead of a targetted parked page there is a good chance they will end up clicking on a competitors ad instead and that would be conversion just went out the window to another company. Before you start posting threads like this you should learn more about marketing, advertising, roi & marketing budgets and then maybe you can make an informed and educated statement and not some blanket coverall "circular logic" claim. Nobody is stealing anything..they are earning it just like the search engines do!

[fatter]

Hey if you guys want to justify your actions and blame it on advertisers go ahead, I forgot to say its just not stealing from domainers but businesses too. Like I said i no i opened a can of worms and I wont continue to go back and forth I only have to answer for my own actions. If you feel there is nothing wrong with capitalizing on others brands then have at it. But I can see the day when there is a split in generic domain holders on one side and click fraud/Tm holders on the other

[TheLegendaryJP]

[Focus]

All domainers BENEFIT from companies and traffic online, etc. Whether it's from clicks or from resales to end users it all boils down to the same sugar crystals...it's about profit. If you are in this business to hold hands and sing kumbaya, I wish you the best of luck. And if you post something like this then expect people to reply with their input, as I have respectfully and professionally done.

[maroulis]

Originally Posted by TheLegendaryJP

[Poker]

Originally Posted by fatter

Hey if you guys want to justify your actions and blame it on advertisers go ahead...If you feel there is nothing wrong with capitalizing on others brands then have at it.

What actions are those? It's starting to sound like you just aren't making enough from your domains and want to blame it on others.

Your the one that seems to feel the need to blame someone. All I said was that most advertisers that feel they are wasting $ just don't really understand online marketing. If they are wasting $, they need to figure out where and correct it.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by fatter

I know I will get a lot of grief from this but it is true. people who register TM/typos are hurting every legitimate domainer,
Ad dollars would be much more if advertisers actually got people from parked sites who were searching for there product 100 percent of the time. Heres an example Joesmo types in hbsc.com instead of hsbc.com and goes to a parked page with hsbc link on top for banking. HSBC paid 5 dollars for every visitor that google sends them only joesmo already has an account with hsbc and just wants to check his balance. I am sure advertisers see that there traffic is converting somewhat because of the legitimate parked sites where people are actually looking for a mortage or whatever. But now we see advertisers opting out of parking traffic for this reason. I am sure this happens millions of times each day.

Ad conversions aren't black and white. Who really knows what John Doe's click will result in. Perhaps if he hits a few HSBC competitors along the way via a typo, their rates and services will actually be leveraged.

[fatter]

I can only give one example as a demonstration to show my point I regged ragshops.com that i saw had dropped and figured it was a nice name I then parked it and after a couple months of parking get placed number one in google after making me 300 dollars I saw a link for ragshop.com I checked into it further to find a tm for ragshop which is a craft store. Obviously all the links where for crafts so not only did i send there traffic to competitors based on there brand name they were also paying for traffic which most udrp commitee members would say was ment for ragshop. I called them up and offered to transfer the name and give them, the 300 dollars they said that wasnt necessary and they inadvertantly didnt renew the name, they also said they wanted to give me 200.00 through nsi as a token of good measure so it all worked out in the end i think they are going out of business now though

Originally Posted by Poker

What actions are those? It's starting to sound like you just aren't making enough from your domains and want to blame it on others.

Your the one that seems to feel the need to blame someone. All I said was that most advertisers that feel they are wasting $ just don't really understand online marketing. If they are wasting $, they need to figure out

where and correct it.

thats not exactly what you said heres what you said

More like Ad dollars would be much more if advertisers actually knew what they were doing online. Why blame advertiser ignorance on domainers.

which to me says blame the advertisers

[Focus]

You giving up a generic traffic name to some company without request because you "think" it was infringing on them when in fact "rag shops" is a common generic term goes to show your level of understanding about domains and tm law..why the hell would you give up a great domain like that...absolutely stupid. Sorry..but thats the truth!

[fatter]

It isnt generic in the states ragshop as I found out was a chain of craft stores in the usa almost one in every major town, it may have been stupid but everyone was clicking on the same link for ragshop.com after it was on my parked site which I may have won in a legal battle but felt if the reason the traffic was there was because of there brand i would sleep better at night, probably carried a little to far but as I found out later being i am not a craft kinda guy if you asked anyone what ragshops was and they would say its a craft store off route 66 or wherever they are located in different towns

[CyrusL]

Originally Posted by Focus

they have to spend the money online and marketing managers sometimes have a hard time finding places online to spend it all!

Just because advertisers spend money on parking pages of their own TM doesn't make the sale of that traffic legal, moral, or justified. If a family member of mine was kidnapped, I'd pay the ransom, but that doesn't make kidnapping okay.

[Focus]

Hey I am not the poster child for tm names or typos and I don't really mess with them personally anymore due to increasing constraints regarding them...but traffic is traffic is traffic is traffic, beyond that it's a personal choice as to how you run your business...this is a very BIG can of worms..

[Doc Com]

Peeps are gonna do what peeps are gonna do.

I am no exception.

We all have our personal opinions about TM, typos, yada yada.

But big business has their own opinion. Unfortunately, they also wield the power and the money.

We all know about the Microsoft litigations. But here is a site I found yesterday while doing some research.

This is a project and now a free download offered by MS for this very purpose...typosquatters and cybersquatters.

http://research.microsoft.com/resear...LTracer/S2.htm

Here is a link to the project's home page.

http://research.microsoft.com/URLTracer/

Their research of 60 targeted domain names netted 8,598 typos parked. They went as far as listing the top six parking sites:

OINGO
DomainSponsor
SedoParking
Qrsch
Netster
HitFarm

Now that is typos. What about non typos. Blatant TM usage.

Beyond typo-squatting, these parking services also park a large number of domains with names containing (non-typo) brand names (April 2006):

* 780 *Disney* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 418 *Yahoo* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 370 *Microsoft* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 366 *Sony* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 320 *XBox* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses

* 280 *Ebay* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 190 *Nokia* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 112 *Canon* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 79 *Nintendo* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 71 *Panasonic* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 61 *Gucci* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 48 *Citibank* domains: grouped by parking services; grouped by IP addresses
* 44 *Marriott* domains: grouped by parking services and traffic affiliates; grouped by IP addresses

Like them or not, the TM and copyright holders do not like them.

Those stats are a little outdated. But nevertheless show distinct trends.

It is dry reading but informative. It also goes into detail the relationships made between Sedo and many of these TM holders and agreements. So if your name is given the boot, perhaps you now know why.

Soon, look for all the Search engines to stop providing feeds to these domains. Afterall, they are victims themselves.

All in all, it appears that their targeted search netted close to 13,000 typos and TM violations.