'Rights' to an old song - used for marketing

**NamePopper.com** · 10-21-2002, 08:05 PM

Here is something a little different....

Regarding the 'Rights' to an old song - and wanting to use it for marketing a doman name/web site/biz.

Where do you go to find out who owns the 'rights' to a very old song? And how do you go about purchasing the rights to use the melody/lyrics of the song for a commercial or ad campaign?

This particular song is very old - was actually a religious type hym - and has been reproduced 100's of times by
100's of different singers/groups/even choirs - on many different 'collection' albums/cd's etc. - It's also a song that is still used and sung in schools and other youth groups - even at some church and bible schools.

Someone has suggested to me that since it's very old - was never a commercial song to begin with - and already has been 'redone' so many times - that there are obviously no trademarks or 'rights' to it as a 'property' of anybody. Obviously I need to get more information before I just take the word of the first armchair attorney that threw his
2 cents in my direction.

Anybody that has any clue about this subject - please speak up.

Thanks.

**GeorgeK** · 10-21-2002, 08:56 PM

I believe the copyright to a song ends 70 years (or is it 90 now?) after the death of the creator. Was the song a few hundred years old? If so, you likely don't have to worry about it.

**NamePopper.com** · 10-21-2002, 10:45 PM

Heyo George!

Well if that's the case .... I wonder how or where a person would go to find out how old it is?

Thanks for replying by the way!

**jberryhill** · 10-21-2002, 10:53 PM

It depends on what you mean, but by now I guess you knew I'd say that.

First, there is no subsisting US copyright on any work published prior to 1923. That is as close to a black and white as I'm going to get in this thread.

Now, here's my question. What do you mean by "song"? Do you mean a particular recording of that song? When you are listening to a recorded song, there can be all kinds of copyrights involved. The underlying musical composition (which can be split into the score, the lyrics, the arrangement, etc.) is one thing, but the recording itself is an additional thing.

For example, take the song "Daisy Bell" as sung by HAL the computer in the movie 2001. The song was composed and published in 1892. The copyright is long expired, and you may do whatever you want with it. But, can you use the recording of HAL singing it from the movie? No way. The rights in that particular performance of the song, and in that recording, are still valid.

There are licensing clearinghouses for most modern compositions and/or recordings, including ASCAP, BMI, and others, which are more than happy to provideyou with information on licensing musical compositions and recordings.

Finally, this question doesn't have anything to do with trademarks, and I'm sort of curious by the appearance of the term "trademark" in your post above, and in the context of age. Trademarks don't expire, so long as they are in use. The red triangle of Bass Ale is one of the oldest trademarks, and it is still alive and kicking.

And to pre-emptively deal with obvious follow up questions....

Is the title of a song subject to copyright? No.

Is the title of a song a trademark? Once in a while, but hardly ever, and not for the song itself.

**NamePopper.com** · 10-21-2002, 11:23 PM

Thank you very much for the reply J.B.

Well it's not a particular version or recording of the song that we want to use - as there have literally been 100's of them - but rather just the melody and a few lines of lyrics. The "hook" of the song - so to speak.

Would it be ok if I sent you the actual title of the song in a pm? I think you will instantly recognize it - and also see why it's got me stumped.

Thanks again!