[secretary.com] stolen domain

[DaddyHalbucks]

This problem involves my purchase of the [secretary.com] domain from Chris MacDonald [DNF: cjmacd/ DBA: supremenames.com].

I have previously bought domains from Chris MacDonald, so when he told me about the [secretary.com] domain --I trusted him and jumped on it.

He told me his "partner" Chadwick owned it and he vouched for Chadwick (and in postings on the DomainState.com board he also guaranteed Chadwick's integrity).

We quickly agreed on $8000: $1000 down and $1000 per month for 7 months.

Chris transferred the domain to my eNom account. I immediately sent the deposit by PayPal.

I even paid him early for the first month payment, also by PayPal.

Then, last week I noticed that the [secretary.com] domain was missing from my eNom account. Somehow the domain was transferred to NSI without notice to me and without my consent.

I called the new listed registrant, Mary Gallegos, in Oregon (she is an Oregon state representative). I explained to her my situation --and she told me that the domain had been stolen from her the month before! Mary said that someone renewed her domain and then transferred it. She said transfer papers may implicate someone with an Illinois drivers license, but I do not know if that has been proven. She said had been in contact with the authorities and that NSI had gotten back her domain for her.

A fraud appears to have been committed.

One week ago, I told Chris I would give him 1 week to return my money. I called Chris today, and he hemmed and hawed about returning the money, he criticized me for calling his house when he wasn't there, and he demanded documents from NSI and eNom (which I do not possess).

So, I am out $2000 --which I sent in good faith to another DNF member.

The bottom line: I am left holding the bag.

:(((

[GeorgeK]

Keep at it, Hal -- it's important that Chris repay the money, so that you're "whole" again.

[Mr Webname]

Originally posted by DotComCowboy

One week ago, I told Chris I would give him 1 week to return my money. I called Chris today, and he hemmed and hawed about returning the money, he criticized me for calling his house when he wasn't there, and he demanded documents from NSI and eNom (which I do not possess).

So, I am out $2000 --which I sent in good faith to another DNF member.

The bottom line: I am left holding the bag.

:(((

It appears from this post that a resolution to the problem is in progress - one party having allegedly suffered a loss, the other party allegedly requiring evidence of the loss.
In the circumstances I wonder if anyone else thinks that this thread is premature and that two seasoned domainers should be able to work this out between them?

[DaddyHalbucks]

I already gave him a week.

As far as I know, Chris made no effort this week to take care of getting whatever 'proof' he requires.

Additionally, I told him today I would authorize NSI and eNom to provide whatever information is necessary to get to the bottom of this.

Today's request for documents seems like a stalling maneuver.

There is another informative thread about this matter on DS in the 'Warning Forum' area. It seems that Chadwick has been one active domainer.

[actnow]

I am more interested in knowing how the domain was "stolen?" originally.

And, how the original owner got the name. Without Cowboy being
notified.

[DaddyHalbucks]

I am more interested in knowing how the domain was "stolen?" originally.

I BELIEVE MARY GALLEGOS TOLD ME THAT IT WAS RENEWED BY SOMEONE ELSE AT NSI AND THAT HER CONTACT INFORMATION WAS CHANGED. PERHAPS HER EMAIL ADDRESS WAS INACCURATE.

And, how the original owner got the name. Without Cowboy being
notified.

DAMN GOOD QUESTION. ME TOO. I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW HOW ENOM AND/ OR NSI COULD SKIRT DUE PROCESS AND INVADE MY ENOM ACCOUNT AND JUST TRANSFER AWAY THE DOMAIN.

[jberryhill]

"I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW HOW ENOM AND/ OR NSI COULD SKIRT DUE PROCESS AND INVADE MY ENOM ACCOUNT AND JUST TRANSFER AWAY THE DOMAIN."

This question comes up about every week.

Enom Registration Agreement, Section 16(iv)(A) and (B). That's how.

As with the sale of goods, contracts to transfer items of value should define the party which bears the risk of loss of the item. Let's say you agree to pay me in installments to ship you a live cow. I cash your first check and I put a live cow onto a freight train bound for your destination. The cow dies in transit. At your end, you open up the cattle car, and there lies a dead cow.

Whether or not you still owe me further installments, and whether or not I owe you a refund, is fixed by reference to how we assigned the risk of loss in the transfer agreement to buy the cow.

This problem was not new to merchants from the dawn of recorded history, and it is certainly not new now.

For the transfer of goods under the Uniform Commercial Code, there are default provisions which apply when the transfer agreement is silent on which party bears the risk of loss. Whether domain names are "goods" under the UCC is an open question. Therefore, any domain name transfer agreement should expressly address the issue of risk of loss.

Warranties are also a good idea, where appropriate.

[LewR]

jberryhill - are you suggesting that there are alternative responsibilities for stolen goods?

Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but it was always my understanding that repsonsibility kept rolling uphill with regard to stolen goods.

Of course my language is not made of legal terms - but basically, I keep going back until I find the thief - and that thief has final responsibility.

Yes?? (or no...LOL)

[DaddyHalbucks]

I cash your first check and I put a live cow onto a freight train bound for your destination. The cow dies in transit. At your end, you open up the cattle car, and there lies a dead cow.
+++++++++++++++

The cow didn't die..

The cow was stolen..

Which raises issues of possible fraud..

The seller guaranteed title, not only in private correspondence, but also in a public forum.

[bidawinner]

Originally posted by DotComCowboy
I cash your first check and I put a live cow onto a freight train bound for your destination. The cow dies in transit. At your end, you open up the cattle car, and there lies a dead cow.
+++++++++++++++

The cow didn't die..

The cow was stolen..

Which raises issues of possible fraud..

The seller guaranteed title, not only in private correspondence, but also in a public forum.

DTC .. I agree it's a hell of a situation.. any possiblity you can for starters get this woman to continue the sale ? Would she take a few thosand for it ?

If you can get it back then you have an aset you can leverage to get back the other 2K ..or to apply enough pressure to at least make people think twice about selling you stolen goods ..
Just a thought

[DaddyHalbucks]

or to apply enough pressure to at least make people think twice about selling you stolen goods ..
++++++++++

Perhaps the forum owners can step up to the plate and firmly ask the seller to make me whole.

The other option for me is to file a criminal complaint.

You would think that the possibility of the seller shelling out huge $$,$$$ for a criminal defense attorney would give incentive for paying $2000 which is clearly the lesser of the two.

If this is not settled fast I may do just that. I want to be made whole --pronto.

[cjmacd]

Originally posted by DotComCowboy
This problem involves my purchase of the [secretary.com] domain from Chris MacDonald [DNF: cjmacd/ DBA: supremenames.com].

I have previously bought domains from Chris MacDonald, so when he told me about the [secretary.com] domain --I trusted him and jumped on it.

He told me his "partner" Chadwick owned it and he vouched for Chadwick (and in postings on the DomainState.com board he also guaranteed Chadwick's integrity).

We quickly agreed on $8000: $1000 down and $1000 per month for 7 months.

Chris transferred the domain to my eNom account. I immediately sent the deposit by PayPal.

I even paid him early for the first month payment, also by PayPal.

Then, last week I noticed that the [secretary.com] domain was missing from my eNom account. Somehow the domain was transferred to NSI without notice to me and without my consent.

I called the new listed registrant, Mary Gallegos, in Oregon (she is an Oregon state representative). I explained to her my situation --and she told me that the domain had been stolen from her the month before! Mary said that someone renewed her domain and then transferred it. She said transfer papers may implicate someone with an Illinois drivers license, but I do not know if that has been proven. She said had been in contact with the authorities and that NSI had gotten back her domain for her.

A fraud appears to have been committed.

One week ago, I told Chris I would give him 1 week to return my money. I called Chris today, and he hemmed and hawed about returning the money, he criticized me for calling his house when he wasn't there, and he demanded documents from NSI and eNom (which I do not possess).

So, I am out $2000 --which I sent in good faith to another DNF member.

The bottom line: I am left holding the bag.

:(((

There is an obvious problem here with the name in question (Secretary.com). The comment above is slightly misconstrued

I acted as a BROKER and an escrow service between the two parties; at no point did I OWN Secretary.com

Read: The name was not purchased from me, I just facilitated the sale.

As a broker; when a problem comes up, ethically I have to do everything in the best of my ability to resolve the problem. Especially when dealing with a long time business relation / friendship.

Like I told Hal I am gathering facts about the case, although it may be easy to say to the person who brought two parties together to have to front up ALL the cash by such and such a date and then it being their problem, it’s not a very reasonable one.

I sympathize with Hal, that’s why I’m going out of my way to get this resolved. But these things take time. And short deadlines do not make for resolved issues.
I can’t do anything until all fact are gathered. .

And it is very difficult when you have someone who is angry and stated many times that they will not help with gathering information because ”they don’t need to”.

I am disappointed you decided to carry through on your threat to post on the forums while this is under investigation, simply because you did not get your way.

As I stated on AIM, I fully intend to get to the bottom of this and make things right ASAP.

And furthermore bullying techniques such as “if you have to defend yourself against a criminal complaint, any lawyer is going to want $5000 for a retainer”
Or
“You are going to make me whole. Period. Do you really want me to the boards and law enforcement with this? Think!”

And many more I’d rather not publicize

Just doesn’t sit well with me, and I know they won’t with the rest of the members on this board.

Hardball techniques like that are just not professional and actually impede my progress to get you a solution as quick a possible. I have been nothing but helpful to you Hal.

Demanding that I take out a loan or pay you with MY CC in a very small time frame just isn’t reasonable.

With all possible fraud investigations, all information has to be collected before anything can be done. It’s ugly but there’s not much I can do about it :(

I showed good faith and a high commitment to right this possible wrong.

It sounds like I’m reiterating a lot here but the fact is this is under investigation, and you have to be patient

And you have to realize that just because you go through with a threat to go public doesn’t speed up your cause

The squeaky wheel doesn’t always get the grease.

/ DAMN GOOD QUESTION. ME TOO. I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW HOW ENOM AND/ OR NSI COULD SKIRT DUE PROCESS AND INVADE MY ENOM ACCOUNT AND JUST TRANSFER AWAY THE DOMAIN./

That’s one of many questions I want answered.

Hal, you can have a temper tantrum as much as you want. But in the end you have to be patient.

In conclusion I respect you quite a bit Hal, we are both seasoned domainers, your choice to make this a public issue isn’t a wise one.

Please keep that in mind.

Cjmacd

[DaddyHalbucks]

I can’t do anything until all fact are gathered. .
++++++++++++++++++++

It feels like stalling.

After you transferred the domain to me I didn't make excuses --I paid you right away. I trusted you.

[DaddyHalbucks]

I showed...a high commitment to right this possible wrong.
++++++++++++

How?

[cjmacd]

Originally posted by DotComCowboy
I can’t do anything until all fact are gathered. .
++++++++++++++++++++

It feels like stalling.

After you transferred the domain to me I didn't make excuses --I paid you right away. I trusted you.

Sometimes spaghetti feels like worms... but it's not, it's just spaghetti

What would the point of my stalling be? What would that accomplish?

I am not avoiding dealing with this, it’s just taking time

How many deals have we done in the past? Quite a few, why is your trust any different now?
I am the broker/middleman...I am working on resolving it


You keep playing the fact that you paid right away, and that you trusted me.

Remember I trusted you to broker a deal in payment plan and on top of that sending the domain before any payment was
made, you seem to keep forgetting to mention these facts.

Word to the wise: next time you have a "Feeling" sit back take a breath and remove your blinders. Because this isn't helping your case one bit.

So in short I'm working diligently on your problem.
You have to be patient.

Now excuse my while I go have some spaghetti.

Cjmacd

[GeorgeK]

Originally posted by cjmacd

I acted as a BROKER and an escrow service between the two parties; at no point did I OWN Secretary.com

Read: The name was not purchased from me, I just facilitated the sale.

On the other forum, it was stated, before the theft was clear to all:

http://www.domainstate.com/showthrea...5&pagenumber=3

you would actually see that Chadwick and I are trusted partners

I'm sure many folks would read that to mean more than just brokering a name. And at:

http://www.domainstate.com/showthrea...5&pagenumber=2

Documentation proving that secretary.com is going to be sent to Hal (dotcomcowboy) in order to prove that the name was and is legit.

I bought a name (exw.com -- see archives of DNForum) that turned out to be stolen, and the seller (who was innocent; the guy he bought it from was guilty apparently, as it was all in Escrow) paid me back immediately. NameGuy gained a lot of respect in my eyes for being so responsive. I can understand Hal's frustration. If one has credit cards, one can get cash advances. If one has a computer, one can sell it. There are lots of ways to raise cash fast.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Documentation proving that secretary.com is going to be sent to Hal (dotcomcowboy) in order to prove that the name was and is legit.
++++++++++++

This promise was never fulfilled.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Chris paints me as impatient, but I have ALREADY given him a week to make good, and he has done little in that time as far as I can tell.

[DaddyHalbucks]

When things go wrong in business, good businesspeople take responsibility and do whatever they can to make it right.

Bad businesspeople break promises, get evasive, deny responsibility, deny relationships, say they need time, say they need documentation, blame the victim, toss in irrelevant red herrings, etc..

[cjmacd]

PM sent with Chadwicks contact info

i've done all I can for you Hal and all you do is drag my name through the Mud

I wish you best of luck

I will help in any way I can

but the way you are conducting things. it's almost impossible to help you.