[URGENT] Need an attorney's suggestion

[007]

Hi,

I have received a C&D letter and they want me to transfer the name to them. I need to talk to somebody who deals with this. Preferably someone who has successfully handled such cases, as I do not want to lose this name. I need some legala dvice as to whether or not I should even bother trying to fight it.

Please PM me if you can help me.

Thanks.

[Dave Zan]

Hi,

I have received a C&D letter and they want me to transfer the name to them. I need to talk to somebody who deals with this. Preferably someone who has successfully handled such cases, as I do not want to lose this name. I need some legala dvice as to whether or not I should even bother trying to fight it.

Please PM me if you can help me.

Thanks.

No way you're going to get free legal advice here. But perhaps you can check
these 2 sites out: www.esqwire.com and www.chillingeffects.org/domain

Other than that, you definitely should consult an attorney. Just search here
under John Berryhill, Howard Neu, or Ari Goldberger (don't PM Jberryhill, though).

Ask yourself this, though: do you have the time, money, and sincere belief the
domain name you have is worth fighting for? The answer to the third factor
is important because it depends on how much the domain name means to you.

Good luck!

[007]

Thanks.

The answer to all of those is no, as I cannot afford to fight this if it were to go to court. I guess I will email them myself and see if I can get anywhere. This whole situation just stinks.

:huh:

[Dave Zan]

Thanks.

The answer to all of those is no, as I cannot afford to fight this if it were to go to court. I guess I will email them myself and see if I can get anywhere. This whole situation just stinks.

:huh:

If you haven't emailed them yet, you might want to put that on hold, as it
might feed them more ammunition to fire at you.

Try searching here. There are lots of threads on the subject.

[007]

I haven't contacted them. I have 7 days to comply though so I have to do something. The tricky thing is that this is a famous persons name that I registered and I have heard horror stories about these. I don't think I have a big chance of keeping the domain even though it is a popular name and it doesn't belong to just this one person. I will do some more research on it though. Thanks.

[harleyx]

I haven't contacted them. I have 7 days to comply though so I have to do something. The tricky thing is that this is a famous persons name that I registered and I have heard horror stories about these. I don't think I have a big chance of keeping the domain even though it is a popular name and it doesn't belong to just this one person. I will do some more research on it though. Thanks.

There's always the option of changing YOUR legal name =P

[Dave Zan]

Tell you what: although I'm not a lawyer, can you at least answer 2 things:

1. What field is this person specializing in? (i.e. sports, medicine, etc.) Just out
of curiosity, actually, although it doesn't really matter.

2. What was your original intention with the domain name before you got that
C&D letter? If you intended to gain any sort of commercial value with it, uh oh.

Of course, don't post the domain name here.

[007]

Tell you what: although I'm not a lawyer, can you at least answer 2 things:

1. What field is this person specializing in? (i.e. sports, medicine, etc.) Just out
of curiosity, actually, although it doesn't really matter.

2. What was your original intention with the domain name before you got that
C&D letter? If you intended to gain any sort of commercial value with it, uh oh.

Of course, don't post the domain name here.

Would it be bad if I said who it was or what the domain name is? I won't, but I'm not sure if that would be a bad idea or not.

Anyway, I will try to be discreet:

1. Let me just answer that by saying that the person's name is known worldwide for multiple things. If I told you exactly what these things are it would be a very easy guess.

2. Ever been to mail.com? You know how they offer email@multipledomains from a dropdown menu? They have various popular domains that people would like to see in an email address. Well this is what I have been doing with the domain on a smaller scale.

3. Uh oh. The kicker is that recently I told some friends that I owned the domain and they talked me into sending out some emails to other companies that sell things related directly to this person to find out if anyone would want to buy the domain. (Keep in mind that I have had this domain for a while now and since owning it have had a live site on it with an obvious purpose. Not just a parking page.) Anyway, I got no responses at all, so I went on with life as usual, and continued using the domain as I had been, and how I currently am using it, as the second half of an email address in a system that I offer for free. I never stated a price, just that I might considder selling it if someone had a good use for it and would pay me, so they can't claim that I was unfairly asking for too much. So basically, I recently got this C&D letter demanding a transfer within 7 days or further legal action will be taken.

There has always been a live site on the site since I have owned it, hence I am not cybersquatting. This isn't even a .com either. The person in question owns the .com and there is nothing on it. It's a blank page. So my question to them is why they feel the need to have this one as well when out of the two of us, I am less of a cybersquatter because I am actually using the domain with content and active visitors to mine. The .com is just a blank page sitting there collecting 404's.

Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

[JEsports]

Try looking in your phone book and finding somebody with the same name as the name of your website. Ask them if you can use there name and picture on your website ... maybe give them a hundred bucks ... and post the picture up on your website with there name under it somewhere.

[Dave Zan]

More questions:

1. Specifically who sent the letter? Did it state if it was sent by an attorney?

2. Did the letter state what the trademark is and its trademark number?

3. Uh oh. The kicker is that recently I told some friends that I owned the domain and they talked me into sending out some emails to other companies that sell things related directly to this person to find out if anyone would want to buy the domain. (Keep in mind that I have had this domain for a while now and since owning it have had a live site on it with an obvious purpose. Not just a parking page.) Anyway, I got no responses at all, so I went on with life as usual, and continued using the domain as I had been, and how I currently am using it, as the second half of an email address in a system that I offer for free. I never stated a price, just that I might considder selling it if someone had a good use for it and would pay me, so they can't claim that I was unfairly asking for too much. So basically, I recently got this C&D letter demanding a transfer within 7 days or further legal action will be taken.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like you just made a BIG MISTAKE, IMHO. An honest
mistake, but a mistake nevertheless.

By doing that, you are practically giving the opposing side "evidence" to show
you intended to profit from the name, even though you had honest and noble
intentions with it. The only question, now, is if they have any sort of proof
you made such an offer and can trace it to you.

That's just my opinion, though, so I can be wrong. But I have a feeling I'm not. :undecided

[Sharpy]

No way you're going to get free legal advice here.

That's just not true. It happens here alll the time.

As far as the three lawyers you mentioned, they are all at the traffic conference in FLA. At least John Berryhill, Howard Neu are, so you would be lucky to get any response 'till it's over. Ari doesn't post here as much.

[007]

Thanks Sharpy. Do you know when they will be getting back?

Also, to answer your questions davezan:

1. It was sent by an attorney. They referred to case http://www.disputes.org/eresolution/decisions/0582.htm .

2. The letter stated that somebody who is famous who has published works bearing their name has a common law trademark on their name by their reputation alone.

I am thinking about contacting them and apologizing and seeing if they will negotiate with me based on the fact that I have been using the domain with good intent but I think it would be best to talk with a lawyer before doing anything, so I don't make it worse by accident.

I noticed that on Ari's website, he was an attorney for mail.com, which does a similar thing that I am doing, only on a much larger scale. I think he might be good to talk to. I sent him an email so I guess he will get that when he gets back. Hopefully soon.

[JEsports]

They are definately not going to "negotiate" with you when they can obtain the site from you for no charge if you have "admitted" fault. You are doing so if you contact them an apologize. If you are going to do that, then just go ahead and hand the site over.

Good luck

[007]

Good point JEsports.

As for tossing something up about someone else with the same name. Would that even work do you think?

The other option I have considered is what if I transfer ownership of the domain to somebody else entirely. Can I get in trouble for doing that? The new person would then have a fresh slate as far as I can tell, but the only thing is would that be making things much worse for me?

Would that be considered domain laundering? And if so would that be bad?

[Dave Zan]

The other option I have considered is what if I transfer ownership of the domain to somebody else entirely. Can I get in trouble for doing that? The new person would then have a fresh slate as far as I can tell, but the only thing is would that be making things much worse for me?

Would that be considered domain laundering? And if so would that be bad?

My, you have an evil mind at work here. :-D

As far as I know, there's no "domain laundering", and I doubt any such law will
ever be formulated except, perhaps, for country codes or other limitations.

I don't know the legal implications of such an action and won't even dare to
state an opinion.

Any one else care to comment on that?

[007]

Well if they wanted it so badly why weren't they one of the people fighting me for it off the drop?

Anyway, I am going to look into this because I don't want to be taken for a fool. I also don't want to be a fool either. :emba:

[harleyx]

Well if they wanted it so badly why weren't they one of the people fighting me for it off the drop?

Anyway, I am going to look into this because I don't want to be taken for a fool. I also don't want to be a fool either. :emba:

Perhaps they knew they could let it drop b/c it has trademark written all over it, and take it for $8 bucks at GoDaddy?

[Acro]

Good point JEsports.

As for tossing something up about someone else with the same name. Would that even work do you think?

The other option I have considered is what if I transfer ownership of the domain to somebody else entirely. Can I get in trouble for doing that? The new person would then have a fresh slate as far as I can tell, but the only thing is would that be making things much worse for me?

Would that be considered domain laundering? And if so would that be bad?

1. You can't do that while the domain is in UDRP
2. It might further establish bad faith if it reached the UDRP panel

[TopNames.com]

Without knowing what the domain is, it's hard to give advice.

However, I have received C&D letters and SOLD the domain to the companies who sent the C&D letter. Asking for "out of pocket" costs seems fair and resaonable and most companies would agree with you...provided you're under $1,200. Anything over $1,200 and you might be in for a UDRP visit. Be polite and fair and they usually will be polite and fair in returrn.

[007]

1. You can't do that while the domain is in UDRP
2. It might further establish bad faith if it reached the UDRP panel

At this time there is no UDRP filing on this. If there is no UDRP hearing, would this still be bad to do? Sure I plan to get official legal advice before doing anything, mind you. I'm just asking.

Without knowing what the domain is, it's hard to give advice. ....Be polite and fair and they usually will be polite and fair in returrn.

The thing is that this is not the .com, and the people trying to get this from me own the .com, and it is a blank page. It seems as if out of the two of us, I am the only one using the domain for anything. And my use is even non-profit.

I am not looking to sell the domain either. I would like to keep it. By sending an email with no mention of a price, I am automatically selling a domain? I said I would consider selling it. I was low on cash at the time and the idea sounded good. It's different selling a domain with no site, than selling a domain that you have personal attachment to and have build a site around, regardless whether of not the buyer wants the domain for the site, or the domain alone. In this case it is apparently domain alone. I have use for it as well, and am currently using it. Developed domains are always worth more, regardless whether or not the buyer plans to use the content. If I develop a domain that has someone's name on it, obviously I am using it. Now I send them an email offering to sell it to them. Suddenly I am a cybersquatter? I put time and effort into a site, yet my original out of pocket cost is all that counts? I am simply saying that I will part with the site that I put time and effort into if they are willing to compensate me. It's not like I am sitting on a blank page trying to make money. So they say they are not interested? Great, then I continue using the domain as I have been. Instead, they want to take it from me now by calling me a cybersquatter. The more I think about this, the more I don't think I fit that definition.

I think tomorrow is the last day of the T.R.A.F.F.I.C. conference. I will try to contact some of the lawyers here mentioned earlier on Monday to see what they have to say about this situation.

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