What if? ...

[Steen]

A domain name is stolen at NSI and kept at NSI, then the registration lapses and it is auctioned off at Snapnames?

[jberryhill]

If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.

I'm not sure I know what you are asking. The upshot of your scenario sounds as if the victim who has been already banging their head against the NSI brick wall will have something new to say. So?

[jdk]

I am assuming he means someone steals a domain from another person and pushes that domain to another NSI account leaving it at the same registrar. Then time goes by and the name lapses instead of renewing it and is auctioned off at Snapnames.

So technically the person who purchased the name from Snapnames bought a stolen name that expired. Not sure what could be done. Didn't the person who had the name stolen from them realize they didn't have the name anymore?

I will leave the legal explanation to the professionals here

[Steen]

I am assuming he means someone steals a domain from another person and pushes that domain to another NSI account leaving it at the same registrar. Then time goes by and the name lapses instead of renewing it and is auctioned off at Snapnames.

So technically the person who purchased the name from Snapnames bought a stolen name that expired. Not sure what could be done. Didn't the person who had the name stolen from them realize they didn't have the name anymore?

I will leave the legal explanation to the professionals here

Right, but the domain never "dropped".

If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.

What?

[jdk]

Sorry didn't mean drop. Meant that Snapnames auctioned it. So someone else bought the name?

If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.

It is how all the legal-eze they talk. Just like a legal contract. Who really know what all that jibberish means.

[jberryhill]

What?

Precisely.

What if a domain name is stolen at NSI and kept at NSI? NSI still doesn't give the south end of a northbound rat.

What if a domain name is stolen at NSI and kept at NSI and then you are travelling down the road at the speed of light and you turn on your headlights?

The question sounds like a Zen koan to me.

[Steen]

Ok John,

The point I was trying to make is, does the domain have a clear title? It didn't really drop...

Here's an example if you don't understand the concept.


e.com is registered to E Inc via NSI. John Doe transfers e.com to his account at NSI. Mr Doe is concerned about being caught, so he does not renew the domain name when the registration period ends. NSI and Snapnames then auction the domain off to the highest bidder. Sally Victim ends up owning e.com because she was the highest bidder at Snapnames. Is e.com still a "stolen" domain or is Sally the new proud and legitimate owner?

Thoughts?

[jdk]

Wouldn't it have been E Inc's responsibility to get the domain name back before the registration period ends?

[Dave Zan]

Ok John,

The point I was trying to make is, does the domain have a clear title? It didn't really drop...

Here's an example if you don't understand the concept.


e.com is registered to E Inc via NSI. John Doe transfers e.com to his account at NSI. Mr Doe is concerned about being caught, so he does not renew the domain name when the registration period ends. NSI and Snapnames then auction the domain off to the highest bidder. Sally Victim ends up owning e.com because she was the highest bidder at Snapnames. Is e.com still a "stolen" domain or is Sally the new proud and legitimate owner?

Thoughts?

I'm not a lawyer. But I do know a couple of things:

1. Until the new ICANN rules on domain deletion takes effect a few months
from now, NetSol is pretty much free to do with the domain name as they
please once it's expired. With their SnapNames partnership, NetSol won't let
delete the domain name from their database anymore and instead award it to
the highest bidder from SnapNames for convenience.

(FYI, they're not NSI anymore. They're now called Network Solutions LLC ).

2. John Doe clearly stole the domain name. But E Inc has to prove that's what
happened.

On NetSol's side, a domain name "ownership change" is considered valid if it
followed all standard internal transfer conditions. If they detected anything
amiss, they may do something about it, but it's rare.

That's why NetSol and other registrars have standard disclaimers absolving
them of things like this, recognizing the possibility of it happening. That won't
stop the domain name owner from trying to hold them liable, though.

3. On SnapNames' end, Sally Victim becomes the new owner. Whether she
should be held liable or not is up to E Inc to prove she should be.

4. The problem with this is for someone from E Inc to discover early on if the
domain name was transferred from their name to John Doe. If nobody noticed
this, the domain name expired, and is auctioned and won by someone from
SnapNames, NetSol won't do anything about it because nobody notified them
of this on time.

For legal concerns, I leave it to experts like JBerryhill.

jdk, actually as posted above, the domain name was transferred by John Doe
to his account. That makes it John Doe's responsibility to renew the domain
name or not.

Hope this helps.

[Acro]

If a tree falls and no one's around, does it make a noise?

[Steen]

If a tree falls and no one's around, does it make a noise?

yes

[Dave Zan]

yes

But if no one's around, no one will hear it, of course.

It's one thing for an object to make noise. It's another for someone else to
take notice.

[Acro]

But if no one's around, no one will hear it, of course.

It's one thing for an object to make noise. It's another for someone else to
take notice.

Exactly my point: if a domain is stolen, it does not have to scream "STOLEN" all over it.