Where do I stand with sedo

[joess83]

I was involved in bidding for a .com name on sedo for some time and we finally settled on £4,000 as the price.

I wired the money to sedo the next day and they have acknowledged receipt.

The seller now refuses to fill in any transfer forms and has basically stopped replying to Sedo.

Where do I stand legally? As I understand he has contractually agreed to sell the domain and I have fulfilled my side of the contract by paying the agreed price.

Am I wrong?

[jberryhill]

One does not "stand" with sedo. One lies on one's back with one's limbs in the air. This is sometimes referred to as the "dead cockroach position".

sedo conducts a system similar to the game of Monopoly - in which one pretends to buy and sell real estate. At Sedo, people pretend to buy and sell domain names.

If the sale goes through, then Sedo collects a commission. If a sale does not go through, then for Sedo to actually *do* anything about it, or even verify that the person "selling" the domain name in fact controlled the domain name, would cost them money. Now, don't be silly. If you were running Sedo, and you had a choice between collecting money for not doing very much, or spending money for doing things, which would you choose?

Thank you for playing.

[INVIGOR]

You got squat...I think they told me it's in their TOS. Same happened to me with another name. Seller raised price.

[jberryhill]

You got squat..

Relative to sedo, yes. Relative to the seller, no. The seller had entered into a contract to sell, and did not perform.

[CyrusL]

sedo conducts a system similar to the game of Monopoly - in which one pretends to buy and sell real estate. At sedo, people pretend to buy and sell domain names.

Haha, it's funny because it's so true.

[INVIGOR]

Relative to sedo, yes. Relative to the seller, no. The seller had entered into a contract to sell, and did not perform.

He was asking about sedo. Relative to seller, I think the jurisdiction, domicile of seller, etc. may have some bearing.

[joess83]

The seller is in the UK and I am too.

I would have thought under European law that we have entered into a contract and that Nominet would agree that this was so. But am I being naive?

[INVIGOR]

That's a whole different thing now.... You didn't say it was a .co.uk name. Nominet may intervene, but again, not if the seller didn't provide the supporting documents required for a transfer within nominet.

My point was, were it a .com and the owner in Moscow an you in the UK, you'd may be pressed to enforce the agreement. You may have a shot since your both in the UK and it's a UK name (Nominet).

Goodluck

[joess83]

Sorry, mistype in original post. It is a .co.uk.

Do you think Nominet would recognise a seller on sedo as having entered into a contract? In other words if it has been agreed on sedo I can get Nominet to make the transfer on the basis of a contractual arrangement?

[acronym007]

One does not "stand" with sedo. One lies on one's back with one's limbs in the air. This is sometimes referred to as the "dead cockroach position".

Now that's funny...


I love sedo so much that I plan on sending them a box of chocolates on the 14th.

As John said there is not protection for buyer or seller. Sedo collects a commission for doing nothing, if you allow them. They throw the "legal" word around to scare everyone into paying. All they care about is the money, not the client(s).

[draggar]

Here's a question - do you have the ability to get your money back?

[friday]

I don't see how or why sedo should enforce enforce non completing contracts, the legal costs of pursuing such claims would bankrupt any business. Really they have only acted as a vehicle by creating a legal binding contract between two parties. As John Berryhill pointed out above the contract is between buyer and seller.

The only real threat to a non complying seller is direct legal action by the buyer. Why not use the services of a domain lawyer to draft a letter to threaten legal action if the seller doesn't comply with the contract. Off course this is only worth doing if you feel the domain is really worth the purchase otherwise move on.

That doesn't mean that I endorse sedo's actions, every business can make improvements but profitability is the bottom line.

[jberryhill]

Do you think Nominet would recognise a seller on sedo as having entered into a contract? In other words if it has been agreed on sedo I can get Nominet to make the transfer on the basis of a contractual arrangement?

No.

http://www.nic.uk/digitalAssets/2610...and_appeal.pdf

For all the above reasons, the Panel is confident that pure
contractual disputes of this kind are outwith the scope of the
Policy.

I don't see how or why Sedo should enforce enforce non completing contracts,

Your point is well taken. Managing customer expectations is, however, also part of any business.

As far as the "how" in your question above, there are ways to do this "right" to a greater degree. For example, what if Sedo operated a subsidiary registrar - i.e. its own registrar, which incorporated Sedo's TOS into the domain TOS. In other words, "if you sell the domain name through Sedo to a buyer on Sedo, and the buyer pays, then we are going to transfer this domain name to the buyer".

This would solve multiple problems, but certainly not all, and certainly wouldn't work for all sellers for various reasons. However Sedo-registered domain names could be specifically identified at Sedo as being subject to "transfer assurance", which would be a big boost to buyer confidence.

Also "community feedback ratings" along the lines of eBay feedback, have frequently been suggested to Sedo.

[acronym007]

I don't see how or why sedo should enforce enforce non completing contracts, the legal costs of pursuing such claims would bankrupt any business. Really they have only acted as a vehicle by creating a legal binding contract between two parties. As John Berryhill pointed out above the contract is between buyer and seller.

The only real threat to a non complying seller is direct legal action by the buyer. Why not use the services of a domain lawyer to draft a letter to threaten legal action if the seller doesn't comply with the contract. Off course this is only worth doing if you feel the domain is really worth the purchase otherwise move on.

That doesn't mean that I endorse sedo's actions, every business can make improvements but profitability is the bottom line.

Correct me if I am wrong, while this isn't Real Estate I do believe ethically and legally Sedo has a fiduciary duty to protects it's clients better. How can any company make or require you to pay a service fee when they actually provide no service? If a lawyer and or Realtor charges you for his or her time they could be sued for abuse of that relationship. Sedo is the broker, they therefore operate as a dual agent for both parties. The intention of this relationship is to operate on your behalf and sell your domain to a ready, willing, and able buyer. They do nothing, as John says, they just sit back and collect money. They have an obligation to provide better more reliable service. The buyer should know he will get the name and seller should know the website will remain up, the offer is the highest and best, etc.. That however requires effort,time, and money. They are very lucky to be in a unregulated industry.

I don't think you will see someone win a case if the buyer takes the seller to court. How can you sue the seller directly as Sedo is the broker working on behalf of the seller. Sedo collects a fee for this service. The buyer did not contact the seller directly. They would not have met had it not been for Sedo. The broker(Sedo) ultimately blew the deal from the lack of enforcement to lack of effort to assist, etc... If you try to sue the seller, you better name Sedo in the same lawsuit and good luck with that.

[Dave Zan]

If a lawyer and or Realtor charges you for his or her time they could be sued for abuse of that relationship.

You might as well sue your doctor for billing you for his time. Of course, that's
never stopped some knuckleheads from doing that anyway.

If you think about it, practically anyone can bill you for his/her providing some
form of service, and the time dedicated to doing it, you both agree to. No one
is forced to get into something both parties don't mutually agree on, just like
no one's compelled to use sedo if they don't agree with their terms.

If you're hesitant before jumping in, you can always ask.

[buysellfast]

This happenned to me as a seller. The buyer didn't perform, sedo game me the contact of the buyer and said i can follow up with a legal case. No one has time for it, so we simply let it go, knowing that what didn't sell today, will sell higher tomorrow.

[jberryhill]

They would not have met had it not been for sedo

WHOIS is broken?

[Acro]

WHOIS is broken?

I think his statement was factual (they did meet via sedo) rather than speculative (what if sedo did not exist). Either way, an interest in a domain name usually leads to some form of inquiry.

[joess83]

So basically where I stand is:

1. Seller offers to sell his domain on sedo
2. We haggle for a while to find a suitable price
3. I accept his offer to sell at £4,000.
4. I send sedo the cash by bank wire
5. It turns out that Sedo has no way of enforcing the sale and that despite all their small print about it being a contract they have no intention of enforcing it.

Does this strike anyone else as a wierd way to run one of the biggest domain brokerage businesses in the world?

[Bill Roy]

Sue the owner in the English courts, it will not cost much, you can in fact do it yourself, you would sue for the domain, all costs involved and interest. And of course should you win and the defendant did not give you the name, etc., then bring in the bailiffs - for which the defendant would end up paying.

My advice is to visit www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk and look under small claims.

Keep us informed on how you get on please.