.com or .jp example

[Adam Dicker]

Ok, so let's take an example...

Seems as if most are regging IDN .com's first and not the countries own.

Why is that, if I was japanese and I wanted to look for a japanese word, would they look at the .com or the .jp first?

Is this strictly due to price? .jp are $80 a year.

-=DCG=-

[DNWizardX9]

Ok, so let's take an example...

Seems as if most are regging IDN .com's first and not the countries own.

Why is that, if I was japanese and I wanted to look for a japanese word, would they look at the .com or the .jp first?

Is this strictly due to price? .jp are $80 a year.

-=DCG=-

IDN .jp are running a sale

http://spec.jp-domains.net
You must enter the puny code xn-- which is equiv to the japanese characters
They are $30 each if you register two (so $60 total is a must)

or if you buy $2000 worth of domains it turns out to be $ 20 a pop
or $1000 for $25/pop (this is up front)

[none]

There's alot of debate about this.

My take is that with Japanese, Chinese and Korean, since there are no plurals, the namespace is twice as tight -- .com will end up having high value due to its global mindshare. This implicit scarcity will probably also boost value of .net.

The other more important reason is difference in arbitration procedure. WIPO UDRP for gTLD is established with a history of precedent. With .jp and .cn the history is not as clear to many investors, so my guess is that they erred toward the side of safety.

This is not to say that .cn and .jp will not be valuable, because that's not the case. They are valuable.

[Yojimbo]

That's a point I've brought up before as well DCG. The argument is made all the time that Russian's (or whoever) will use their native language to type in IDN domains and when IE7 is released there will be massive traffic to those type in IDN domains. The argument is also made that the Russian's will not only type the IDN domain in their native language but for some reason add the extension .com because that extension is so well known. If you step back and think about it it doesn't really make much sense. They are either going to use their own language or they're not. If they do, then it seems to me that it would be far more likely that they would use their own countries ext as well.

While I do think the IDN market will grow I'm just not convinced that the IDN.com market is where that growth will occur. A Russian company that wants to sell product on the international market will not use an IDN domain since most international users would not really be able to type it in easily. They WOULD use a .com extension though. However, a Russian company that only wanted to sell domestically in Russia would use an IDN but would probably use the Russian extension and not a dot com. So, I'm not really sure where the IDN.com fits in.

I feel that, to a large extent, the current frenzy is based upon the fact that you can (could) register some single word top rate names in the IDN.com space cheaply. That causes excitement and it feels like the original .com gold rush. You can have the equivalent of Gold.com in a number of different languages for a small price. I'm just not sure that in the end the IDN.com space will be where the true gold actually exists. Gold.jp, gold.ru, etc. in their IDN form will probably be where the value will be.

Just my opinion though and I've been wrong before (unfortunately) : ).

[none]

That's a point I've brought up before as well DCG. The argument is made all the time that Russian's (or whoever) will use their native language to type in IDN domains and when IE7 is released there will be massive traffic to those type in IDN domains. The argument is also made that the Russian's will not only type the IDN domain in their native language but for some reason add the extension .com because that extension is so well known. If you step back and think about it it doesn't really make much sense. They are either going to use their own language or they're not. If they do, then it seems to me that it would be far more likely that they would use their own countries ext as well.

While I do think the IDN market will grow I'm just not convinced that the IDN.com market is where that growth will occur. A Russian company that wants to sell product on the international market will not use an IDN domain since most international users would not really be able to type it in easily. They WOULD use a .com extension though. However, a Russian company that only wanted to sell domestically in Russia would use an IDN but would probably use the Russian extension and not a dot com. So, I'm not really sure where the IDN.com fits in.

I feel that, to a large extent, the current frenzy is based upon the fact that you can (could) register some single word top rate names in the IDN.com space cheaply. That causes excitement and it feels like the original .com gold rush. You can have the equivalent of Gold.com in a number of different languages for a small price. I'm just not sure that in the end the IDN.com space will be where the true gold actually exists. Gold.jp, gold.ru, etc. in their IDN form will probably be where the value will be.

Just my opinion though and I've been wrong before (unfortunately) : ).

Actually that's not correct.

All extensions will be aliased to their IDN equivalents in every unicode language character set.

So, for example, you would be able to type in:

аниме.ком

The .ком will be aliased to .com. They will be one and the same.

Russian IDN are receiving good traffic right now, even with the low penetration of Firefox and without extension aliasing. You would be surprised.

A Russian company that wants to sell product on the international market will not use an IDN domain since most international users would not really be able to type it in easily.

I would agree with this, but the vast majority of businesses in China, for instance, only care about their domestic market and do not export.

[DNWizardX9]

before idn... whoever told you that ppl type domain.com is highly popular in russia is wrong.

.com is very popular however ppl would prob type in the .ru first (NON IDN)

we do now know yet what the idn market holds for .com /.ru

[Yojimbo]

Yes, I understand that vtrader. аниме.ком will be the same as аниме.com but аниме.ком will not be the same as аниме.ru which was the point I was trying to make.

I agree that a Russian will definitely want to type in аниме in the domain since it is their language. What I'm not convinced of yet is the value of аниме.com or аниме.ком. I think that if you are making the argument that they want to use their language then they will also want to use their Tld. So, аниме.ru should be far more valuable in terms of revenue than аниме.com. The only other people on the planet that would type in аниме.com would be Russians living outside Russia and are used to using the com extension. Even then, if I was in Russia and wanted to check out a jewlery site I would probably use jewelry.com since I know it would be in english. So, a Russian in the US might type in the IDN for jewelry in Russian and add the ru extension because they can be fairly sure it will be in Russian.

This is all speculation of course but I do think that the IDN.com hype is a little overblown right now. The IDN with Tld is probably not overblown though. The only problem there will be the fact that the RPC will be very low in many of the tld's because the level of consumer spending in those countries is far lower than Europe and the US. That is already reflected by the low RPC given by the PPC's for foriegn traffic.

It's going to be interesting to watch how it all works out though. Only time will tell.

[Explorer]

We might not know how the exact traffic distribution for Russian, Japanese or Chinese IDNs will work out, but there is no doubt about, say, Spanish, German or French IDNs.

[Edwin]

.com is cheap, subject to known internationally valid arbitration rules, easy to transfer etc.

The local language domains are subject to local rules, and generally more expensive and harder to transfer. They may also have local presence or other requirements. But it's true that they may be at least AS desirable as the .com.

It really boils down to "how much hassle are you willing to go through for a potential return?" - right now, there's still tons of really good stuff available in .com, but there's also tons of good stuff available in most cctld extensions. Neither state of affairs will remain true for very long.

If you have deep enough pockets, the nobrainer play is to buy in pairs i.e. .com plus local extension of everything you register. That makes you the only game in town for a potential buyer.

[Adam Dicker]

So going back to my original question to the IDN experts here, in what order would you reg these if price was not a factor and all were available.


Japanese IDN:

ブックマーク.com
ブックマーク.jp

Chinese IDN:
炒蛋.com
炒蛋.cn
炒蛋.com.cn

Thanks in advance.

-=DCG=-

[puxa2]

Personally I would go with .com first but reg all if money no option.

[Edwin]

I'd go for Japanese before Chinese, but that's because I know the market. And I'd go for .com over the other extension(s) for the reasons I've already outlined.

[touchring]

So going back to my original question to the IDN experts here, in what order would you reg these if price was not a factor and all were available.


Japanese IDN:

ブックマーク.com
ブックマーク.jp

Chinese IDN:
炒蛋.com
炒蛋.cn
炒蛋.com.cn

Thanks in advance.

-=DCG=-

炒蛋.com.cn -> .com.cn only supports latin.


I think .coms are pretty strong in the Far East - especially china, taiwan, and Hong Kong since all started off with .com.cn, .com.hk, .com.tw, and most prime websites are still using that .com.xx format.

As for Japan and Korea, they got .com translated into native language and guess what, many websites actually brand their website in IDN form even though they do not own the idn itself.

As for .cn and .jp, if you got a good domain to register, you might well consider taking the cctld. If the domain is so so, just take the .com.

[bwhhisc]

I'd go for Japanese before Chinese, but that's because I know the market. And I'd go for .com over the other extension(s) for the reasons I've already outlined.

There are 10 people in China for every 1 in Japan. 1.3 billion in China versus 127 million in Japan. If you are a short term investor going for the next 2 or 3years I agree about Japan, from 3 to 10 year out and longer China is the play for the long run.

Either way if IDNs take off as many expect, you will do well with both. I just like the idea of the 10:1 customer ratio! Don't forget the rollout of those $100 laptops, internet use will eclipse todays number five or ten times over in the next decade.

[yanni]

There are 10 people in China for every 1 in Japan. 1.3 billion in China versus 127 million in Japan. If you are a short term investor going for the next 2 or 3years I agree about Japan, from 3 to 10 year out and longer China is the play for the long run.

What's the spending power of a Chinese person compared to a Japanese one?
What's the projection of this, 10 years down the road?

It will be the quality of the traffic that will count in the long run.

My gut feeling is that Japanese traffic will outperform the 10fold Chinese during the next 10 years you mention.

I am personally not focusing in these two markets because I'm not familiar with the cultures (or the languages for that matter).

[Edwin]

Or the spending power of a Chinese company? Or a Chinese advertising agency? It's not just the raw numbers that matter...

[DNWizardX9]

There are 10 people in China for every 1 in Japan. 1.3 billion in China versus 127 million in Japan. If you are a short term investor going for the next 2 or 3years I agree about Japan, from 3 to 10 year out and longer China is the play for the long run.

Either way if IDNs take off as many expect, you will do well with both. I just like the idea of the 10:1 customer ratio! Don't forget the rollout of those $100 laptops, internet use will eclipse todays number five or ten times over in the next decade.

its also tougher for chinese translations as china overture is not working

[touchring]

Traffic for Chinese idns is already several times more than Japanese equivalents at present moment - you can verify with many idners.

In the first place, internet usage in Chinese cities on a per capita basis is higher than Japan (i'm putting aside rural China as there's a big difference in level of development).

In terms of spending power, it depends not so much on figures like "income per capita". Japan is almost on par with USA, but spends much less.

The "internet economy" is distinct from the "real economy" - e.g. there are much more Chinese internet companies listed on Nasdaq than Japanese.

Nevertheless, for the next 10 years Japanese spending power will be higher.

[bwhhisc]

What's the spending power of a Chinese person compared to a Japanese one? What's the projection of this, 10 years down the road?
My gut feeling is that Japanese traffic will outperform the 10fold Chinese during the next 10 years you mention.

China revised total GNP for 2005 was recently reported at $1.932 trillion. Their rate of growth potential is huge and they are getting a lot of foreign investment and technology. They are the proverbial 800 pound gorilla, and while personal income lags, their business output and related Internet business needs is going to be huge. Their IDN's in the right market segments are going to be valuable, and you won't have to wait 10 years. The following data is from Wikipedia...

GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT- I believe this is 2004 figures
1 United States 11,667,515
2 Japan 4,623,398
3 Germany 2,714,418
4 United Kingdom 2,140,898
5 France 2,002,582
6 Italy 1,672,302
7 People's Republic of China (mainland only) 1,649,329
(Chinas GDP reported as 1.932 trillion for 2005, surpassing Italy to #6 spot)
8 Spain 991,442
9 Canada 979,764
10 India 691,876

Be interesting to see the growth projections from various economists?

[DNWizardX9]

China revised total GNP for 2005 was recently reported at $1.932 trillion. Their rate of growth potential is huge and they are getting a lot of foreign investment and technology. They are the proverbial 800 pound gorilla, and while personal income lags, their business output and related Internet business needs is going to be huge. Their IDN's in the right market segments are going to be valuable, and you won't have to wait 10 years. The following data is from Wikipedia...

GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT- I believe this is 2004 figures
1 United States 11,667,515
2 Japan 4,623,398
3 Germany 2,714,418
4 United Kingdom 2,140,898
5 France 2,002,582
6 Italy 1,672,302
7 People's Republic of China (mainland only) 1,649,329
(Chinas GDP reported as 1.932 trillion for 2005, surpassing Italy to #6 spot)
8 Spain 991,442
9 Canada 979,764
10 India 691,876

Be interesting to see the growth projections from various economists?

and Canada doesn't even have that big of a population... i'm surprised russia isn't in the top 10