IDN Domains 4 years in - What's their true fate?

[DotComGod]

So, it's now about 4-5 years in since most poeple starting regging IDN names.

I have alot of high end generic IDN's and have definitely lost money on renewing them for 4 years.

What are the general opinions on IDN names today?

Over-hyped or will hit value soon?

-=DCG=-

[fab]

So, it's now about 45 years

I think you mean 4-5 years. A large percent of my profile is IDN's, app. 5-10% of them I have had offers for. My opinion is another 5-10 years before they will start to majure.

[Rockefeller]

I was heavy into IDNs a few years ago. I was selling packages of 30 IDNs for 3-4k...I still manage several of the portfolios that I sold and I have to say, they receive $2-3k offers on individual names every month. The highest traffic names seem to be Arabic and Japanese.

[dillpupp]

I have been into IDN's since early 2004 and have had $XX,XXX in sales from them in the last 2 years. Early 2008 I had 3 $XXXX reported IDN sales on Sedo, all of them Latin (Spanish). Maybe I could have more sales if Sedo would actually get itself together and allow other languages to be listed there.
But I concentrate mainly the Latin stuff.. Spanish, French, Turkish..the traffic was there from day 1 with Latin, so I stuck with it. I also have some Korean, Japanese...I sold an Arabic IDN for $900 once too.
(foolishly) selling Diseño.com for $1000 in 2004 pretty much what got me started in domaining. I used that money to get registering whatever I could find. You can't lump IDN's into one category and say if they're succeeding for failing, because it all depends on the language. We've seen big reported German IDN sales for years, and almost none for Arabic despite it's usage. IDN success or failure will be on a country by country basis, depending on a million things, I say keep holding the best stuff.

[Doc Com]

I think it is going to do well. It is certainly not going away and ICANN has supposedly put it on the fast track.

Spanish, Arabic, Japanese will do fine. China will also but there always seems to be a proliferation of anything Chinese that it just dilutes the markets bringing the value down in terms of PPC.

Numerous Chinese IDN's I own get great traffic but very little conversion.

I am doing much better on symbol related than character (ɢ.net, ʏ.com) and so on.

Originally Posted by fab

My opinion is another 5-10 years before they will start to majure.

With ICANN putting this on the fast track you will see this market explode in perhaps less than 2 years.

With that said, there is the issue of many not knowing what to look for in IDN and the scams will be gigantic and more than plentiful.

I also look for China to basically say Screw You!, ICANN and the world and create it own internet.

The biggest concern I have (overall) is the fast track of IDN's and the new TLD's all happening pretty close to the same time is going to cause massive chaos and confusion.

The web will end up being so fragmented and fractured. It will created virtual borders on the internet and those famous "walled gardens".

So, get ready for a bumpy ride.

[memmst]

This verisign report mostly has information regarding Russian idns but also contains good general information:
http://www.idnplanet.com/Overview_of..._Mtg_Mar09.htm

Today some generic idn domains have a few type ins monthly and others have over 60k monthly so it really varies, exactly like it does with English domains.

As for sales, i personally know of one $xxx,xxx sale that was paid for a single idn and over 10 high xx,xxx transactions that happened in the past 18 months but that proves nothing.

[DomainsInc]

I think idn.idn will make idn.com,net,etc almost useless. I am not versed in IDN's but if a user has to switch the settings for their keyboard to type .com it seems an idn version of .com,net,etc would be preferred.

[acronym007]

I wish I knew the answer to this question. I have some IDN's I'm sitting on waiting for them to hatch. Overall I would say I should have spent my money some other english .com's. I'm not sure these amount to anything even in 10 years and even if they do I think I would have been able to flip the english .com for more and faster.

[Doc Com]

Originally Posted by DomainsInc

I think idn.idn will make idn.com,net,etc almost useless. I am not versed in IDN's but if a user has to switch the settings for their keyboard to type .com it seems an idn version of .com,net,etc would be preferred.

If browsers auto detect a language then there is a huge game changer.

If Jonathan composes a letter or site in Japanese and I am in North Carolina and see the same site in English, then the internet has just been redefined.

However, take a country like China who has mandated that all government entities use .cn, well its only a matter of time before they demand this of all in china. And china has a habit of getting its way. If not, then they will simply break away and create their own internet.

I would not at all be surprised that they mandate any company doing business within the chinese borders utilize the .cn. You may end up seeing Ford.cn, IBM.cn in order to access those branches within China.

Personally, it makes good business sense in a way to immediately identify the branch of the company - the chinese branch of IBM, etc.

[biggedon]

i have a couple of idn's that get consistent traffic and revenue.

so i would say some have value now.

[memmst]

Originally Posted by DomainsInc

I think idn.idn will make idn.com,net,etc almost useless. I am not versed in IDN's but if a user has to switch the settings for their keyboard to type .com it seems an idn version of .com,net,etc would be preferred.

Rather the idn version of .com,net is preferred or not is irrelevant since the current holder of the idn.com (i.e пример.com) is going to be the owner of пример.ком

[Alphamale]

Originally Posted by DotComGod

So, it's now about 45 years in since most poeple starting regging IDN names.

I have alot of high end generic IDN's and have definitely lost money on renewing them for 4 years.

What are the general opinions on IDN names today?

Over-hyped or will hit value soon?

-=DCG=-

With respect Adam, you're kind of famous amongst those who spend time in the IDN whois - for regging a boat load of crap using machine translation (which is deeply flawed)

My point: not bashing you, just saying there's a bigger picture out there than 1 guys experience.

[Carter]

I never loved IDN's.

I've seen many italian guys spent months to reg'd IDN domains they never will sell.

But I think some IDN's have a lot of traffic.

[Doc Com]

Originally Posted by memmst

Rather the idn version of .com,net is preferred or not is irrelevant since the current holder of the idn.com (i.e пример.com) is going to be the owner of пример.ком

Not the case.

If the domain regged is the equivalent to the idn form in .com, the extension will not change. It will remain as .net, .com, .us, .ru, dot whatever.

Once IDN kicks in full throttle, I don't see any changes to the Latin lettered extensions. This is what is going to cause a massive upheaval and chaos in the internet.

That is why I think IDN in principle will be short lived as I am sure browsers will be not too far behind that will auto translate dependent upon a default the user sets.

If a Russian native sets the default to Russian, he will be viewing Москва́.ком while I will be viewing that exact same site as Moscow.com.

IDN is not something to dabble in if you are not well versed in foreign languages. Even then, there are so many dialects and variences. I have perhaps about 100 and I am sure some are great and some are crap. But I also used the services of a native speaker to determine best usage and the most correct.

Not an easy task at all.

On the other hand, I have had some offers on some. Most recently it was a Hindi word.

[DotComGod]

Originally Posted by Alphamale

With respect Adam, you're kind of famous amongst those who spend time in the IDN whois - for regging a boat load of crap using machine translation (which is deeply flawed)

My point: not bashing you, just saying there's a bigger picture out there than 1 guys experience.

Agreed, I did do that, not taking it as bashing it's a fair comment.

-=DCG=-

[memmst]

Originally Posted by Doc Com

Not the case.

If the domain regged is the equivalent to the idn form in .com, the extension will not change. It will remain as .net, .com, .us, .ru, dot whatever.

Once IDN kicks in full throttle, I don't see any changes to the Latin lettered extensions. This is what is going to cause a massive upheaval and chaos in the internet.

That is why I think IDN in principle will be short lived as I am sure browsers will be not too far behind that will auto translate dependent upon a default the user sets.

If a Russian native sets the default to Russian, he will be viewing Москва́.ком while I will be viewing that exact same site as Moscow.com.

IDN is not something to dabble in if you are not well versed in foreign languages. Even then, there are so many dialects and variences. I have perhaps about 100 and I am sure some are great and some are crap. But I also used the services of a native speaker to determine best usage and the most correct.

Not an easy task at all.

On the other hand, I have had some offers on some. Most recently it was a Hindi word.

Not sure where you get your information but it is far from accurate and overall confusing.

From page # 72 (ICANN new gTLD's draft from Feb 18,2009 http://www.icann.com/en/topics/new-g...18feb09-en.pdf

String confusion exists where a string so nearly resembles
another that it is likely to deceive or cause confusion. For a
likelihood of confusion to exist, it must be probable, not
merely possible that confusion will arise in the mind of the
average, reasonable Internet user. Mere association, in the
sense that the string brings another string to mind, is
insufficient to find a likelihood of confusion.*2

*2 Some comments suggested that the standard should include defined categories of similarity (e.g., visual, aural,
similarity of meaning) that may be alleged or considered in a string confusion objection. All types may be considered
and the standard is open-ended to allow for disputes to be heard according to the claim made by the objector. The goal
is to prevent user confusion.

From this Verisign IDN overview (was presented on March 26,2009 in Moscow) page # 21 http://www.idnplanet.com/Overview_of..._Mtg_Mar09.htm Notice Verisign's current and proposed.

Bottom line is that the owner of Пример.com is the only one that will own Пример.ком

If it was any other way then sure it would then mean "massive upheaval and chaos in the internet."

[Doc Com]

The extension does not change, as in my example:

If a Russian native sets the default to Russian, he will be viewing Москва́.ком while I will be viewing that exact same site as Moscow.com.

Perhaps that where the confusion comes in.

.com will appear as .ком but .ком will not be a separate extension in itself, available to register.

I guess we are misinterpreting each other's interpretations.

[memmst]

Originally Posted by Doc Com

The extension does not change, as in my example:

If a Russian native sets the default to Russian, he will be viewing Москва́.ком while I will be viewing that exact same site as Moscow.com.

Perhaps that where the confusion comes in.

.com will appear as .ком but .ком will not be a separate extension in itself, available to register.

I guess we are misinterpreting each other's interpretations.

So if i understand you correctly you are saying:

- A user buys a computer in Moscow and the default setting is Russian...
He types in Москва.ком to his browser and gets to the site (But he is actually visiting Moscow.com)?

[Doc Com]

Originally Posted by memmst

So if i understand you correctly you are saying:

- A user buys a computer in Moscow and the default setting is Russian...
He types in Москва.ком to his browser and gets to the site (But he is actually visiting Moscow.com)?

Yes (and no), if that is the proper spelling and characters.

.ком itself will not be a registrable domain extension as it is a translation of .com

Now, if someone already has Москва.com (which they do) then they have a great domain - a dual purpose.

Where the problem comes in is - in the not-so-distant future - is when browsers come in and auto translate every thing as the user sets the defaults.

Inevitably, and I have seen examples, a browser can be set to a default language, just like a keyboard, by the user.

There was some experimentation with Google translation and I think someone here even posted examples just a week or so ago.

It is still further down the road but at the pace of technology these days, I can not see this as being that far off. Firefox is also behind this.

What one viewer sees in Russian script (because he set his browser to Russian) I will see the exact same site in English (because I set my browser to English) and perhaps Acro will want to see the sites he visits in Greek (because he set the default to Greek).

There will be nothing else to key in or press or Translate button as this is all set per the browser.

So we now have three people viewing the same page in three different languages and all we had to do was set the browser as such.
-------------------

The biggest issue I see here has been ICANN dragging their feet and having taken so long to roll out IDN that technology has caught up to them.

When a browser is capable of translating every word, then what is the need for IDN specifics?

When a person is capable of using their keyboard to enter their chosen language into the browser window and get to the site that renders everything in their chosen browser default, the what is the need for IDN?

That is the biggest issue I see.

ICANN dragging their feet at least a decade on this IDN issue to where shortly after it is adopted, IDN runs the risks of becoming un-necessary.
---------------------------

Now, remember my Yes (and no) answer?

This is where the real confusion comes in and something ICANN is going to have to deal with.

When browsers do have this capability, what will be correct? Moscow.com or Москва.com? Remember, Москва.com AND Moscow.com already exist. One goes to Moscow.com and the other goes to http://xn--80adxhks.com/

Now, here comes IDN.

What are we going to end up with?

Moscow.com
Москва.com
Москва.ком

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by Rockefeller

I was heavy into IDNs a few years ago. I was selling packages of 30 IDNs for 3-4k...I still manage several of the portfolios that I sold and I have to say, they receive $2-3k offers on individual names every month. The highest traffic names seem to be Arabic and Japanese.

The only "across the board" noticable traffic is Russian IDNs at this point. I think there is a concensus by large IDN portfolio holders on that. My belief is that it is due to the massive publicity in Russia for idn.idn. They are cued up for most likely a Q4 sunrise on their IDN.IDN. If you are getting great Japanese and Arabic traffic congrats, I see traffic but still a crawl for me in those languages and I have some pretty decent keywords and geos.

In other languages, certain keywords, mostly adult related (in particular) do well in virtually ALL languages with some getting xx,xxx visitors a month. There are also many developed IDN sites that do xx,xxx visitors a month, many related to online games. IDNs are coming... still worth the wait. Very little "deals" on the aftermarket at this point, most are holding tight.

Originally Posted by DomainsInc

I think idn.idn will make idn.com,net,etc almost useless. I am not versed in IDN's but if a user has to switch the settings for their keyboard to type .com it seems an idn version of .com,net,etc would be preferred.

Read the Verisign report from last month (link in this thread). .com and .net will be aliased to .com (idn) and .net (idn) in most non latin languages where tranliteration is possible.

If you have followed the ICANN/GNAC/GAC documents, there is an agreement that neither idn.idn, or Verisign's idn.com(idn), or idn.net(idn) would be launched ahead of the other to gain an unfair advantage. Most native domainers in China and Japan are very bullish on idn.com, and equally as bullish on idn.cn, and idn.jp.